I Could Be Right-I Could Be Wrong

[ey****]

again regarding gifts - that, if you imagine a nice relationship with a nice girlfriend, you'd never want to surprise them with a nice gift? especially to celebrate, or if they had a bad day, or 'just because'

you wouldn't want to treat them to a meal out?

and if your answer is "actually, I would" then it's no different.

[cautiousswitch]

4 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

And I think that often skews the balance as most Dommes that people see are the ones who advertise, i.e. the Pros.

 

Bingo!

Only not all "pros" advertise.  The good ones do. 

Does she have multiple subs?
Does she expect tribute from her subs any time she sees them?
Does she contact a sub because she wants to see them or does she expect them to contact her and then sometimes turn them down?

If the answer is yes to all three is yes and she advertises then fine, she's treating it like a business and her clients can expect a certain amount of professionalism.   If the answer to all three is yes and she tries to meet her clients without advertising then she's in denial about her lifestyle.  "But I have another job and this is just something I do for fun..." Lots of people have a second job, it's still a business.  They're trying to run a business as if it isn't a business and their clients shouldn't expect any consistency in business policies.  There are also an increasing number of women who think that its easy ***, will treat it like a job, but will still try to get clients without advertising; usually they don't know what they are doing and don't stay in business for long.

The real pros will have their "tribute" which is really just a fee for services and most of them will have a second "tribute" list of gifts you can buy them if you want to.  Things they would like to own either for their professional or private life that a client can buy hem to show a little extra appreciation.  They don't get mad if a client never brings them anything from this list.

Outside of a professional relationship, even in a monogamous domme/sub relationship, I can see the woman expecting to be treated as if the pair are dating.  He may be expected to pay for dinner or to occasionally buy her a gift, but she shouldn't expect cash (or amazon vouchers) just to be with her.  I don't know of many non-professional relationships like this, but the few I do it is not a cash transaction arrangement.  In most of these relationships it's not unusual for the domme to sometimes buy the sub a gift either

 

[ey****]

16 minutes ago, quietlysure said:

But there are a lot here whose views maybe skewed purely from personal online experiences, and that's in vanilla as well as kink/fetish/BDSM, 

I think it's why it's always why it's good to try and get a mixture of experiences and/or engage with those who have.  There are a lot of folk who try to prey on those who don't have experience be it with attempted scams or ***d ideologies.

And also, of course, a lot of those who don't have experience who often don't learn and don't really get what they want.

None of us really know it all - but it is important to try to think on things - and some of that can be "what does the relationship you want look like?" and "is that even feasible?" because a lot of fantasies, particularly male fantasies, are not feasible.... ....unless with someone selling the fantasy.

And that's something that did jade me a bit in the past when I was still confused if a relationship I was in was genuine or a packaged fantasy - so - I keep that guard up.  So long as you know which it is. 

 

[ey****]

Here's another thought on cash exchange.

If a couple are in a relationship.  If one earns, I dunno, £1200 per month after tax and the other earns £800 per month after tax and the house hold bills, groceries, savings and stuff are £1500 per month

Do they half the bills - leaving one with £450pm and the other with £50pm or do they split it?  So they both have closer to £250 each?  If they do - would that mean arguably the higher earner is paying £200 to be in a relationship with the other? 

[Deleted Member]

11 minutes ago, cautiousswitch said:

Outside of a professional relationship, even in a monogamous domme/sub relationship, I can see the woman expecting to be treated as if the pair are dating.  He may be expected to pay for dinner or to occasionally buy her a gift, but she shouldn't expect cash (or amazon vouchers) just to be with her.  I don't know of many non-professional relationships like this, but the few I do it is not a cash transaction arrangement.  In most of these relationships it's not unusual for the domme to sometimes buy the sub a gift either

Yes! This is it. It's never a cash transaction arrangement. I just expect them to spoil me and treat me like the Goddess that I am. 

[qu****]

18 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

Here's another thought on cash exchange.

If a couple are in a relationship.  If one earns, I dunno, £1200 per month after tax and the other earns £800 per month after tax and the house hold bills, groceries, savings and stuff are £1500 per month

Do they half the bills - leaving one with £450pm and the other with £50pm or do they split it?  So they both have closer to £250 each?  If they do - would that mean arguably the higher earner is paying £200 to be in a relationship with the other? 

That's a bit of a slippery slope edging towards the difference of just paying for sex, or paying for a meal and the cinema or something with sex at the end of it, on a consensual basis, are both prostitution? 

[ey****]

Just now, quietlysure said:

That's a bit of a slippery slope edging towards the difference of just paying for sex, or paying for a meal and the cinema or something with sex at the end of it, on a consensual basis, are both prostitution? 

when you break down a lot of societal norms... you know.   and is prostitution bad?  Guys take women out for drinks or meals in the hope of sex - is that any much different?

[Deleted Member]

1 minute ago, quietlysure said:

That's a bit of a slippery slope edging towards the difference of just paying for sex, or paying for a meal and the cinema or something with sex at the end of it, on a consensual basis, are both prostitution? 

That's not what he's said. He's pointing out that financial inequality exists within ordinary relationships. Sometimes, one party pays more than the other. 

[qu****]

I will say I wasn't saying paying for sex is a bad thing far from it, not something I would do personally, but that's just me, 

[Vandalslut]

4 hours ago, eyemblacksheep said:

a femme sub can make a good impression with a beer and a blow job,

Does this mean femme subs, as in both female AND male?  Or does it mean the wikipedia definition and origin of the word 'femme' meaning 'female'? (There's one or two other definitions but I won't mention them here.)  Could you please clarify? 

4 hours ago, MsWhiteRose said:

Male Dom/female sub is a dynamic that is familiar and supported by societal conditioning. When you turn the tables, EVERYTHING is different. Femdom doesn't much resemble Male Domination. I don't expect you to understand that if you are a Male Dom or a female sub. 

Femdom is nothing new and there are plenty of Dommes out there enjoying very fulfilling relationships with their submissives.  The ones that do fail, I've noticed, are those who storm into this site and onto discussions and threads demanding, demanding, demanding.  And then having a very unDomme-like hissy when they don't instantly get what they want. If there's such a thing as a Bull Dom, then in an equal kink world, there is such a thing as a Bull-Domme.  As for not expecting us lesser mortals to understand, you were a female submissive when you first came onto this site, as your numerous discussions and posts testify,  so - by the terms of your stated lack of expectations - does this mean you don't quite understand Femdom?

On 3/19/2020 at 8:12 AM, MsWhiteRose said:

I've seriously thought about charging for my time because most men see me as a kink delivery system.

 If most men were seeing me as nothing but a kink delivery system, I'd be sitting down and taking a long hard look inside to see WHY I was attracting such men.

[ey****]

25 minutes ago, Vandalslut said:

Does this mean femme subs, as in both female AND male?  Or does it mean the wikipedia definition and origin of the word 'femme' meaning 'female'? (There's one or two other definitions but I won't mention them here.)  Could you please clarify? 

I pretty much meant a female sub to a Male Dom. 

26 minutes ago, Vandalslut said:

If most men were seeing me as nothing but a kink delivery system, I'd be sitting down and taking a long hard look inside to see WHY I was attracting such men.

I've seen the general problem in the past (and somewhat been worried I've been potentially guilty of the same) but there's an awful lot of guys who do approach Ladies with almost like a shopping list of fetishes they want to do or try.

I think "being seen as Dominant" and "not working as a Pro" is enough sometimes.  :/ 

[Vandalslut]

30 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

a femme sub can make a good impression with a beer and a blow job,

I pretty much meant a female sub to a Male Dom.

I hope you don't mean that's your opinion - that Doms can be won so easily or in such a base and crass fashion. I've personally found there's a bit more to 'making a good impression' than buying a beer and offering/giving a blow job.  Any sub worth her/his collar doesn't submit to a Dom who says, "Thanks for the beer, great head, you'll do, now HEEL!"  Any sub worth his/her collar wouldn't even do it just to get a Dom. I respect myself more than that and I believe that many other subs would as well.  I thought it was understood that it takes strength of character to be a submissive - not a handbag full of cash to buy beers with.  Hasn't there been many intelligent back and forths in this site on the building of trust and connections, the establishment of dynamics? 

30 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

I've seen the general problem in the past (and somewhat been worried I've been potentially guilty of the same) but there's an awful lot of guys who do approach Ladies with almost like a shopping list of fetishes they want to do or try.

True - and vice versa nearly as often.  What I have found on my particular Journey through life is that my opinion and belief of myself will attract those who will confirm precisely what my belief and opinion is - every time.

Edited March 20, 2020 by Vandalslut

[Phoenyx]

5 hours ago, MsWhiteRose said:

A femme sub can make a good impression with a beer and willingness to give a blowjob.

How little you know.  On the professional level, a BJ is completely off the table!  I will say though, that I accepted many home-cooked dishes as gifts/tribute.  That was about as close to "a beer" as I ever got.  Honestly, the gifts that were offered, covered quite a wide range.  Check out the belt that I'm wearing in a couple of my profile pics.  It was a hand-made gift from a personal, off-the-books slave, who dropped-by to serve me a couple times a week.

Still, I never expected or demanded any of this.  Such gifts were offered out of the goodness of the heart.  Yes, there is quite a difference in dynamics between M/f and F/m.  Ladies wish to be seduced, not ordered.  Quite often, they have some deeply-buried desire or fantasy---something that they wish to turn into a physical sensation, so that they can grab ahold of it, and own it.  It's about turning weakness into strength.

[Vandalslut]

13 minutes ago, phoenyx said:

How little you know.  On the professional level, a BJ is completely off the table!  I will say though, that I accepted many home-cooked dishes as gifts/tribute.  That was about as close to "a beer" as I ever got.  Honestly, the gifts that were offered, covered quite a wide range.  Check out the belt that I'm wearing in a couple of my profile pics.  It was a hand-made gift from a personal, off-the-books slave, who dropped-by to serve me a couple times a week.

Still, I never expected or demanded any of this.  Such gifts were offered out of the goodness of the heart.  Yes, there is quite a difference in dynamics between M/f and F/m.  Ladies wish to be seduced, not ordered.  Quite often, they have some deeply-buried desire or fantasy---something that they wish to turn into a physical sensation, so that they can grab ahold of it, and own it.  It's about turning weakness into strength.

A hand made gift or a home cooked meal, both made with love are the most beautiful gifts.   The giver has put thought and effort into such a gift and has made it personal rather than fulfilled a demand. And it is true, the 'unexpected' gifts are the most beautiful gifts of all and doubly personal. 

[ey****]

1 minute ago, Vandalslut said:

I hope you don;t mean that's your opinion - that Doms can be won so easily or in such a base and crass fashion. I've personally found there's a bit more to 'making a good impression' than buying a beer and offering/giving a blow job.

I think to a degree I was being...

I dunno. This would translate different in person.

But certainly, no, I wouldn't wish to ultimately sound quite as that.

4 minutes ago, phoenyx said:

Yes, there is quite a difference in dynamics between M/f and F/m.  Ladies wish to be seduced, not ordered

I think that is a very good phrase on the difference.

And when you flip it either which way - it's there.  That of course, in any relationship worth having/keeping then both parties will work on maintaining it.  But, I think the line of seduction *often* centres around the Lady.

 

[ey****]

I think to a degree we're veering a little off course.  But to try to trim

I think specifically regarding gifts.

Everyone likes gifts.

But, I think in F/m in particularly it's a sign the sub is thoughtful, kind, creative or generous

that doesn't mean in M/f that the sub is none of those things.   Nor does it mean every Female Dominant would expect gifts or that a Male Dominant would not.

-

Regarding tributes - this is something that is more exclusive to the Professional side and whilst that is very much a valid part of the community; their general activity can distort things.

But, of course, there are plenty who hide behind this when trying to run scams.  The folk running scams are not part of the community.

I generally find that the ratio of Female Dominants to wouldbe subs is a lot closer than a lot of men seem to feel it is - but that certainly online the visibility of the Professionals is more prevalent as they have something to advertise - which is, well, payment-for-time.

BECAUSE of that, it often seems like "all women want paid" because you see the legitimate Pros advertising or the scammers running the scams - or whatever, but, if you go into the wider community this isn't quite the case.

[Deleted Member]

7 hours ago, Vandalslut said:

 If most men were seeing me as nothing but a kink delivery system, I'd be sitting down and taking a long hard look inside to see WHY I was attracting such men.

Thank you for that. I'll sure take a long hard look at myself.... oh, wait. No, I won't. 

What is it about my stance on Femdom that irritates you so much? 

I'll tell you what has changed about me since I joined this site presenting as a submissive: when men tell me what to do, I push back. I assert my position as a Dominant woman.

If you take a look at some of the Femdom groups on FetLife, such as 'Ask A Mistress', you'd find that I actually have quite a gentle approach to Femdom. 

Or you could ask some of the submissive men who communicate with me behind the scenes what they think about my approach to Femdom. They don't have any complaints. 

I've been wondering if I'll write a long post sometime, about why I've switched from sub to Domme. But I've been forcing myself to resist the urge to explain myself. A typically female habit, in our society. But such a silly one. Why do women feel they need to justify their actions and choices? Perhaps it's because they are judged so harshly.... and most frequently, by other women! 

Let me just say that I'm not new to Female Domination. I had my first subs 3 years ago. But I presented as a sub when I joined this site because I was looking for a Dom. 

After a few disappointing encounters with men who lacked the integrity to call themselves 'Doms' I decided to switch permanently, with the encouragement of a few wonderful Doms and Dommes who have acted as mentors to me. 

 

[Deleted Member]

It’s easier to be a Domme than a Dom. And by the look of some Domme profile it’s all about themselves and cashing in- gift or not- a big different approach than a Dom. We consider the human factor, care, respect, and even for some emotional attachment. Even me as a sadist I would never approach a sub and treat her like an object punching piece of meat! 
This is why there are so many pretend Femdom who thinks submission is about kicking men in their balls and get into their pocket! They are merely an instrument of self *** for these men. 

[Vandalslut]

5 hours ago, MsWhiteRose said:

What is it about my stance on Femdom that irritates you so much? 

Nothing whatsoever. You have the right to have any stance you like, whatever opinion you want. You don't have to take a look at anything or anyone if you don't feel inclined or don't have the time.  You do not need to write ANYTHING explaining yourself.  If it makes it any clearer, I'll rephrase my philosophy:  IF I find that I am consistently attracting people that I find uncomfortable, unsuitable or otherwise dismaying - be they wanna-be Doms, aggressive bristly in-laws or people with a phobia about doorknobs, THEN I sit down and have a look to see why I am attracting them.  That's MY philosophy that I find works for me.  It does not have to be yours.

You can have rights and opinions a-plenty. Everyone has rights and the right to their opinion. I'm all for taking a stand on principles, being strong and being assertive. But demanding, complaining and aggression isn't strength or assertiveness, and judgement and opinion are two very different things.

And I am not the one complaining about  'subby men who have to have their hands held', or 'disappointing encounters with men who lacked the integrity to call themselves Doms' or 'men who see me only a kink service machine.'

I have no complaints at all.

[Deleted Member]

Is that the universal law of attraction Vandalslut? 🙂

[qu****]

I think the thread title pretty much sums it up, I could be right - I could be wrong, all anyone can do is talk from a standpoint based on their own experiences and how they view life, some agree, some don't, neither right or wrong, 

[Phoenyx]

8 hours ago, MsWhiteRose said:

What is it about my stance on Femdom that irritates you so much?

It's not your stance---it's your approach.  Your Domme persona needs some serious polish.

[Vandalslut]

7 hours ago, quietlysure said:

I think the thread title pretty much sums it up, I could be right - I could be wrong, all anyone can do is talk from a standpoint based on their own experiences and how they view life, some agree, some don't, neither right or wrong, 

Agreeing to differ!   I like people who have an opinion and who express it as it's always interesting to hear someone else's likes, dislikes and point of view; I have a real problem with sweeping, across-the-board judgements. Two totally different things.

Edited March 20, 2020 by Vandalslut

[Vandalslut]

8 hours ago, Christopher1972 said:

Is that the universal law of attraction Vandalslut? 🙂

If you like, yes, that's as good a definition as any.  I've found that people, events, good things and bad are attracted to their 'companion' like jigsaw puzzles fit together. There'll be something to learn or gain from them/it no matter how bad it is.  For a long time I attracted the people I came to call 'vampires' - they took all my resources and time. They all needed help. They had problems, dramas, crises enough for a soap opera script. I was literally physically exhausted. After the Universe beat me over the head with a Monty Python-style hammer with a very unmistakable and repeating message, I sat down and looked within - what I had attracted was not friends or people who wanted help - they were self-obsessed vampires who wanted an audience.  I'd been raised on beliefs that fit that attraction - other people come first...if you don't help other people, you won't have friends.  I had to lose those beliefs, change my reactions to the vampires - and they all faded off.  To look for another audience, no doubt.  It wasn't easy - what if I ended up with NO friends? What if 'they' said I was egoistical or selfish? 'They' did say those things, and that was the clincher - friends don't talk like that about you. Real friends don't complain and bitch when you don't behave exactly the way they want. Friends don't only remember you when they've got a problem and forget you when life's being good to them. I have wonderful friends now, people who get off their arse and move and do and learn and who occasionally need to have a chat or a cuppa, like I do sometimes.  I've met some top rate people in here - they know who they are.

Thanks for your question, Christopher1972 - if you want to know any more, feel free to send us a PM.

[Vandalslut]

7 hours ago, phoenyx said:

It's not your stance---it's your approach.  Your Domme persona needs some serious polish.

It used to be said, and I've found it's still true - sugar attracts more flies than vinegar.