Submission as a Gift

[helenOfToy]

39 minutes ago, MsWhiteRose said:

There could be a difference but I would never generalize about trans people because I'm cisgender. I would definitely appreciate hearing more about the experience of trans men and trans women in BDSM and would happily have trans subs. 

I find that sissy subs are much more like cis female subs. And with some sissies, there is almost a transgender experience going on, though not with everyone. 

In my 20s I was more involved in the gay scene, and I loved butch and androgynous lesbians. Still do. Some butch lesbians adopt very cis male traits. I love all the blurring of gender identities like that. And I love cross-dressing men. 

So it seems that it's just cis male heteronormative subs I have some issues with   oh dear! 

I'm not strictly trans, at least not entirely. It's kind of confusing, but I kind of identify as crossdressing/sissy but with a distinctly female second personality. I think I can safely say that I am just about as submissive as it's possible to be, and many of the other sissies I know well are very similar. I could never imagine switching, I wouldn't have the first idea what to do. and I would find the responsibility terrifying. My goal is simply to find a loving Mistress and to serve her to the best of my ability. That is not to say I will submit to just anyone. There must be an emotional connection in order for me to have the trust to give myself heart, mind, body and soul. How typical that is, I can't say.

[Deleted Member]

6 hours ago, Paul_aka_Helen said:

I kind of hesitated to add my opinion to this discussion as my experience is very limited.

Personally I don't really understand why a sub would have an agenda to satisfy, to me submission means completely giving over power and pride and any desire beyond wanting to serve and please your D. Anything less is not truly submission.

Saying that, I do think true submission is a gift, it is the gift of absolute love for and trust in your D, surrendering your power to them is to place your life and your safety into their hands. By the same token true dominance is also a gift, it is about promising to protect and care for a sub as well as fulfilling your desires through them.

In any relationship, both sides have gifts to give, sometimes physical, sometimes emotional, you don't do it in expectation of something in return, you do it in trust that your love will be reciprocated, if you don't open your heart and trust someone, how can you truly know them?

It seems to me that any good D/s relationship should have that.

 

Helen, you and I have talked about this a lot and I do think you have a very good grasp on submission.  You understand that it's about surrendering to your Dominant. I, like you, feel that it's about love and devotion, too. Not everyone will agree but I think that makes the BDSM relationship whole. 

[helenOfToy]

6 minutes ago, MsWhiteRose said:

 

Helen, you and I have talked about this a lot and I do think you have a very good grasp on submission.  You understand that it's about surrendering to your Dominant. I, like you, feel that it's about love and devotion, too. Not everyone will agree but I think that makes the BDSM relationship whole. 

Very much so Rose. BDSM is not all things to all people, and I guess any interpretation is as valid as any other, but it seems important to be aligned with your partner if it's going to be work and be anything more than just physical gratification. This is not to say that one has to be monogamous, or even long-term, but the connection must be there. I don't know where my journey will take me, but my ultimate goal is to find the one Mistress that I was meant to be with, where we complement each other and can spend the rest of out lives learning together.

[Carnelian2]

25 minutes ago, Paul_aka_Helen said:

I'm not strictly trans, at least not entirely. It's kind of confusing, but I kind of identify as crossdressing/sissy but with a distinctly female second personality. I think I can safely say that I am just about as submissive as it's possible to be, and many of the other sissies I know well are very similar. I could never imagine switching, I wouldn't have the first idea what to do. and I would find the responsibility terrifying. My goal is simply to find a loving Mistress and to serve her to the best of my ability. That is not to say I will submit to just anyone. There must be an emotional connection in order for me to have the trust to give myself heart, mind, body and soul. How typical that is, I can't say.

Please take this as a compliment - when I read your first response in this thread, I did not clock on your full name and took everything as what you read as stated from a purely female perspective. So, I am not sure if that second personality is truly second.

The bit about not submitting to everyone is exactly what this discussion is about. 
Perssonally, I think that is a given - just a pity not everyone understands it.

[helenOfToy]

8 minutes ago, Carnelian2 said:

Please take this as a compliment - when I read your first response in this thread, I did not clock on your full name and took everything as what you read as stated from a purely female perspective. So, I am not sure if that second personality is truly second.

The bit about not submitting to everyone is exactly what this discussion is about. 
Perssonally, I think that is a given - just a pity not everyone understands it.

Wow, thankyou so much. That is the most wonderful complement

I suppose I call Helen my second personality as Paul was my personality for 45 years. Helen has only come out in the last few months, since I found fetish and made it my second home. I had a pretty miserable year culminating with losing my  job and my wife leaving me in January. I went looking for the confident and happy side of my personality to rebuild my life. That she turned out to be female was as much of a surprise to me as anyone. The more time goes by, the more I feel that Helen has always been the real me. So maybe I am on a trans path, I don't know. But it's going to be fun finding out.

[Ky****]

thank you for those comments @MsWhiteRose & @eyemblacksheep I particularly recognise this 'from what I've seen is a lot of trans women in F/t can often seek stuff which helps with transition or gender affirmation (which I've also seen in trans men) I've also come across trans women who indulge in a lot of heavy/masochist play' .  I certainly find that I seek stuff that helps with gender affirmation and yes that includes masochistic play, interesting to hear from both of you how common that is

[helenOfToy]

On 4/12/2020 at 8:17 AM, Kymi said:

thank you for those comments @MsWhiteRose & @eyemblacksheep I particularly recognise this 'from what I've seen is a lot of trans women in F/t can often seek stuff which helps with transition or gender affirmation (which I've also seen in trans men) I've also come across trans women who indulge in a lot of heavy/masochist play' .  I certainly find that I seek stuff that helps with gender affirmation and yes that includes masochistic play, interesting to hear from both of you how common that is

As I've said, I don't strictly identify as trans, but I certainly lean in that direction. Personally I am not a masochist, I actually have a pretty high *** tolerance, I just don't find it arousing, my tastes are much more sensualist. That might change as I continue on my journey, I have already changed so much that I'm not going to rule it out.

I am however very excited by being dressed up in Femme/Sissy outfits and used in a ***d-bi scene. I love my pretty lingerie and makeup, being Helen makes me happy, and the idea of being Helen for a Mistress is just wonderful.

[Deleted Member]

You keep saying submission is a gift! So is it unique? What’s happened when the relationship ending?
what about  the Dom realised that gift is too heavy to handle

what about the sub made a mistake and that Dom actually didn’t deserve that gift? 
How many time are you going to consider your submission is a gift? 
if I have to adjectify submission i would say it’s Beautiful and if I had to push it a bit further it’s actually the Dominance which should be qualify as a gift. 
Submission only offer acceptance, Dominant offers knowledge, expertise, care, empowerment, sexual achievement, self discovering and so on

[Wo****]

5 minutes ago, FabSeverus said:

You keep saying submission is a gift! So is it unique? What’s happened when the relationship ending?
what about  the Dom realised that gift is too heavy to handle

what about the sub made a mistake and that Dom actually didn’t deserve that gift? 
How many time are you going to consider your submission is a gift? 
if I have to adjectify submission i would say it’s Beautiful and if I had to push it a bit further it’s actually the Dominance which should be qualify as a gift. 
Submission only offer acceptance, Dominant offers knowledge, expertise, care, empowerment, sexual achievement, self discovering and so on

Is submission "taken" or "accepted" from the Dominant?

Is it submission if control is ***d upon the the submissive or is it something the submissive "gives" their Dominant?

Gifts get returned, or aren't wanted sometimes, doesn't make them any less of a gift.

Submission doesn't only offer acceptance, it offers way more than just acceptance.

I agree Dominance is also a gift, to the submissive from the Dominant. There's no reason D/s can't be a mutual exchange of "gifts"

[Deleted Member]

I said acceptance so accepted. 
never heard of ***d submission? That would be ***. I know some men prey on *** women but we don’t talk about this in this post. 
so you see my point with that gift situation, one minute you give it next it’s back, there is no consistency, profound meaning to it. You objectify your submission. And also quantify it. 
tell me what a submission offer more than acceptance? After all the Dom make what’s become of the submissive, he’s modelling her pace by peace all along her path to submission. 
And don’t get me wrong, remember I said submission is beautiful and I don’t undermine it, never and ever. 
exchange has always been my favourite explanation, as it’s define exactly the action of dynamic. A bit like electrical current, negative /positivite and earth being the safe word. 

maybe I get too philosophical about it 😂 

[Wo****]

20 minutes ago, FabSeverus said:

I said acceptance so accepted. 
never heard of ***d submission? That would be ***. I know some men prey on *** women but we don’t talk about this in this post. 
so you see my point with that gift situation, one minute you give it next it’s back, there is no consistency, profound meaning to it. You objectify your submission. And also quantify it. 
tell me what a submission offer more than acceptance? After all the Dom make what’s become of the submissive, he’s modelling her pace by peace all along her path to submission. 
And don’t get me wrong, remember I said submission is beautiful and I don’t undermine it, never and ever. 
exchange has always been my favourite explanation, as it’s define exactly the action of dynamic. A bit like electrical current, negative /positivite and earth being the safe word. 

maybe I get too philosophical about it 😂 

So if submission is something that is accepted then is it not something that is given? Ergo a gift?

Idk, maybe it's just sematics.

 

I hadn't thought about quantifying my submission, interesting point though, maybe i am objectifying it.

Submission, for me, isn't just acceptance. It's freedom and security. Structure, safety, release.

I tell people i am a natural submissive. I am. Submission isn't something i "do" it's who i am.

 

Absolutely agree it's about exchange. Love the electrical current analogy 😊

 

Random thought...maybe  my submission is a gift, a gift to me.

[Ky****]

just had a thought, oops there goes my airhead image, its starting to occur to me that this whole submission is a gift thing may be a hangover from the old notions of marriage, a woman submitted to her husband and gave him the gift of her body and obedience, ergo as submissives we feel like we are playing the role society used to earmark for women and therefore see ourselves as giving a gift to our dominant who stands in the husband role just as we stand in the wife's, in this modern era when a wife is no longer her husband's property perhaps we submissives should reassess this view and feel more liberated in a partnership just like a modern marruiiage

[Deleted Member]

1 hour ago, Kymi said:

just had a thought, oops there goes my airhead image, its starting to occur to me that this whole submission is a gift thing may be a hangover from the old notions of marriage, a woman submitted to her husband and gave him the gift of her body and obedience, ergo as submissives we feel like we are playing the role society used to earmark for women and therefore see ourselves as giving a gift to our dominant who stands in the husband role just as we stand in the wife's, in this modern era when a wife is no longer her husband's property perhaps we submissives should reassess this view and feel more liberated in a partnership just like a modern marruiiage

You think too much kimy 😜 a sub should submit for her good sake like old fashion way cave man way 😂

but funny enough a man submission is not a gift one! He must deserve the Domme time 🤷‍♂️

[Carnelian2]

Well, I never thought a simple expression could cause so much controversy; Dominants don't want to consider submission a gift because they want to feel that they are taking it, so by being given a gift then how can they possibly be in charge?
Some submissives don't like the idea of giving submission as a gift as it then somehow becomes expected or a notion of marriage.

The thing about gifts are that they are not expected nor demanded. Either way. Yes, in a D/s relationship there is a given transfer of power, which is consensual - maybe that is where the gifting lies as no party should expect this as an outcome when
they first get together. This comes through time, patience and getting to know each other as people. Unless, it is a short one-off encounter, although, I would expect that a certain negotiation of establishment of boundaries will still take place.

A person should never expect something from somebody else without being willing to put the work in. That cuts both ways.