Old school standards meets new school expectations

[Deleted Member]

So yes, I’m what you’d call relatively new to the life style. A newbie, fresh meat, naive, uneducated... so on and so forth. I was enlightened to the BDSM Community at 30 years old (If I cough it almost sounds like 20- I wish) I wasn’t a 50 shades baby- I cringe even saying that movie title! It’s merely a coincidence and anyone that’s taken the time to talk to me knows I am a lot more literate than what’s her name that fingered herself to the idea that all Dominants are rich ***d *** who became ***rs. Anyway, that’s a different tangent! The reason for this post is to discuss the difference in BDSM from generation to generation... I’ve found the men in their 30/40 approach me differently than those in their 50s.... now you’d think this was a negative post about young men, it’s not! Older men are my preference but I’ve found the older generation seem to believe the decision to be Submissive brings with it the decision to be controlled and accepting of behaviour unbecoming of a real meaningful dynamic. I’ve recently been told to find a Dominant and serve them... I don’t want a Dominant! I want the right Dominant and for this to be decided requires discussion on the level that we are both adults, both have needs, both have expectations of the relationship we may or may not embark upon. Where I struggle is that if I’m submissive from the off set how can we agree these points and them know I’m not just saying yes Sir, no Sir... please look after me Daddy? This lead to me being called a “Lipstick Submissive”.... who knew that was even a thing but yet here I am 😂

 

So yes, I am guilty of topping from the bottom during that initial conversation, this is rarely a conscious choice but more comes from a place of protection.... where do we find the balance? How do we respect each other’s chosen roles and move forward? 

 

How do you present a bio that correctly advertises what you are but protects you from predators? My bio sells that I’m an alpha sub- I am to an extent but with the right care and nurturing I’m putty... I’m a baby girl... I’ll do pretty much anything in Subspace... the right Dominant (at the time) can make me offer things I never would but I do to please them...

 

How do we bridge the gap of old vs new or at least learn to respect each other’s different approaches? 

[typhoon2]

Until you offer up submission and are collared (literally or metaphorically) you are the equal of anyone who interacts with you. Anyone who claims otherwise is misguided, and I'm being charitable there. Informed consent is the keystone of BDSM and negotiation is on an equal footing. You are not guilty of topping from the bottom since you're not a bottom until you agree that you are!

I'm not convinced that there is a particular generation gap, since I know 60/70 year olds who are awful human beings and worse Dominants/Tops and respectful, effective people in their ***s. I think possibly the newer folk are less inclined to listen and exercise patience, since the demand for instant gratification is a more contemporary phenomenon.

[Dreamaway]

I'm afraid it's down to the individual, maybe there is some stereotyping among age groups but there are exceptions to every rule. Inversely my generation are mostly put off by young girls purporting to be findom, selling underwear, offering meets for cash etc. I do NOT include you in this. It's a fact of life that BDSM/FETISH is used as a cover by predators, just be careful is all I can really offer you. The old adage, " if it looks too good to be true...."! Again I will reiterate that in every age group there exceptions to the rule. Stay Safe.

[bratmad]

This fits so well. Thank you for this post. ❤️

[ey****]

I think a lot of people have different kind of backgrounds of how they discover and learn about kink - and whether that is from literature, movies, or community (including dungeon/munches and online).

I feel one of the biggest changes is online - particularly with how accessible everything is.   Anyone can start a blog/website or create a profile on forums.   I feel this has led to more people coming together and more ideas being discussed.

Before that level of accessibility - learning was a bit more restrictive; I've found that folk who've been around a while often can appear set in ways and/or speak of "how things were" and it's often because their local community was potentially narrow with ideas and anyone who dissented from these didn't fit.

I think this sometimes brings it's own problems and why there's sometimes seen as such a gap in ideas between "old" and "new" I do wish we could so bridge.  

 

[Deleted Member]

@eyemblacksheep my biggest problem was being told to pick a Dom and serve. There seems to be a belief that if they’ve got Dom in their user tag then I should submit. When speaking with a Dom I do appreciate their chosen role and often say ‘with all due respect’ but that being said I want to talk and connect as people first, not roles. I won’t call anyone Sir until we enter a dynamic nor will I share unsolicited pictures with them as I see this as disrespectful to the person I finally submit too.... who wants to ride the village bike with a smile on their face? 

[Deleted Member]

@Dreamaway I appreciate that this works both ways and never intended to produce a female vs male war. I just want to know what the masses think would work best, communicate as equals first or as roles? 

[Deleted Member]

@typhoon2 thank you, I just often hear that I’m guilty of topping from the bottom or that I’m too Domme to Dom.... however my argue to this would be, I’m new! This isn’t imbedded behaviour, it’s learnt. Who’s to blame? Me or the present community? 

[ey****]

yep - I agree, totally.  

The thing is this ties in with a form of male entitlement that just by existing and by calling themselves a Dom/Master that one day they should have subs coming up to them to do their whim.  

It's not a good image or look for these to profess.   If they wish to be approached by a sub to serve, then that's a standing they most earn and through that.... an understanding that subs are free to pick their own connections

[Deleted Member]

9 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:If they wish to be approached by a sub to serve, then that's a standing they most earn and through that.... an understanding that subs are free to pick their own connections

This is where I struggle, some not all I’ve spoken with believe Submissive means stupid and will do as told. I won’t,  I don’t then end up misunderstood. 

[ey****]

51 minutes ago, little_dark_princess said:

This is where I struggle, some not all I’ve spoken with believe Submissive means stupid and will do as told. I won’t,  I don’t then end up misunderstood. 

if someone treats submissives like they're 'stupid' then they're definitely not a good Dominant.  I mean.... in play, with consent, that's one thing.

But, think about this - who really wants to be with someone they see as stupid?  That's not healthy.  

 

[Mo****]

4 hours ago, little_dark_princess said:

@eyemblacksheep my biggest problem was being told to pick a Dom and serve. There seems to be a belief that if they’ve got Dom in their user tag then I should submit. When speaking with a Dom I do appreciate their chosen role and often say ‘with all due respect’ but that being said I want to talk and connect as people first, not roles. I won’t call anyone Sir until we enter a dynamic nor will I share unsolicited pictures with them as I see this as disrespectful to the person I finally submit too.... who wants to ride the village bike with a smile on their face? 

Girl I happen to think your pretty damn desirable, for a number of reasons.  But first let me tell you what I am about so that you may understand me a little better.  Sumissives are NOT weak, and dominants are not necessarily strong.  I personally want a dynamic that is made up of two people who care deeply about what the other needs and desires for that dynamic to work.  I DON'T want a doormat, I want someone of substance who is prepared to live this life on as close to 24/7 basis as outside pressures and constraints allow.  This life is suppose to be fun, exciting, fulfilling and full of contentment - as a couple or partnership.  I am not much good as a dominant if I don't have the right submissive, and vice versa.  I want someone who has intelligence, experienced real life, not the sheltered lives that some spoiled kids live, or who's perception is garnered from 50 shades of shit.  When I talk with you, I talk with someone who has a common interest in this kinky lifestyle, not as some subordinate creature.  I like to converse with my partner and listen to what they have to say.  I like my partner to be a fit feisty and bratty, and not backwards in coming forward - within reason of course, the same as in any relationship, whether that be vanilla or kink.

 

Now you crave finding the right Dom, and that's fine.  But when selecting your dominant to serve and pleasure, and for him to do the same to and for you, I believe it is all about dropping perceptions, not worrying one iota about age, and doing a lot with the honest and open communication that we all so stridently preach.  We have seen here recent examples of so called doms prepared to destroy their subs for their own gratification.  I don't know his age, but to me, his age is irrelevant, where as his mind was not.  YOU as the submissive need to have your dominant inside your head to be able to read you, know you as well or better than you know yourself, AND he needs to be there so he can control and manage your desires and emotions and needs.  NOT control as in what you have had before or as in that other example that I gave.  He needs to be prepared to give you safety, security and aftercare, and without being inside your head, he can't really do that properly.  He has to be the one that has responsibility for your happiness.  He has to be prepared to NOT judge you in anyway for your desires, just as you need to trust him with your being.  Now all of this is hard work and takes a lot of effort on both.  It should never be one sided.

 

So age and length of time in the lifestyle is not really a determining factor, or shouldn't be.  What is in the heart and soul of the other person is what truly matters.  YOU may have to kiss a hundred frogs before you find your prince, but he is out there.  I have been looking now for a number of years to find my right submissive, so I know it does not come easy, or around the corner like a bus or cab when you need them.  Just talk, be honest, learn about the other person from the outside in, and eventually you will get there as equals, and then when your reasonably content with them, then you can commit.  Picture looking for a new place to live, you are shown a slightly aged cottage and from walking around the outside, you see that it needs a little bit of work, but once your shown the inside, you see all of the amenities that you were wanting, you feel warm and cosey, you feel safe and secure, and you know this is where you want to live for the rest of your life. 

[Wo****]

2 hours ago, MossyBoy said:

Girl I happen to think your pretty damn desirable, for a number of reasons.  But first let me tell you what I am about so that you may understand me a little better.  Sumissives are NOT weak, and dominants are not necessarily strong.  I personally want a dynamic that is made up of two people who care deeply about what the other needs and desires for that dynamic to work.  I DON'T want a doormat, I want someone of substance who is prepared to live this life on as close to 24/7 basis as outside pressures and constraints allow.  This life is suppose to be fun, exciting, fulfilling and full of contentment - as a couple or partnership.  I am not much good as a dominant if I don't have the right submissive, and vice versa.  I want someone who has intelligence, experienced real life, not the sheltered lives that some spoiled kids live, or who's perception is garnered from 50 shades of shit.  When I talk with you, I talk with someone who has a common interest in this kinky lifestyle, not as some subordinate creature.  I like to converse with my partner and listen to what they have to say.  I like my partner to be a fit feisty and bratty, and not backwards in coming forward - within reason of course, the same as in any relationship, whether that be vanilla or kink.

 

Now you crave finding the right Dom, and that's fine.  But when selecting your dominant to serve and pleasure, and for him to do the same to and for you, I believe it is all about dropping perceptions, not worrying one iota about age, and doing a lot with the honest and open communication that we all so stridently preach.  We have seen here recent examples of so called doms prepared to destroy their subs for their own gratification.  I don't know his age, but to me, his age is irrelevant, where as his mind was not.  YOU as the submissive need to have your dominant inside your head to be able to read you, know you as well or better than you know yourself, AND he needs to be there so he can control and manage your desires and emotions and needs.  NOT control as in what you have had before or as in that other example that I gave.  He needs to be prepared to give you safety, security and aftercare, and without being inside your head, he can't really do that properly.  He has to be the one that has responsibility for your happiness.  He has to be prepared to NOT judge you in anyway for your desires, just as you need to trust him with your being.  Now all of this is hard work and takes a lot of effort on both.  It should never be one sided.

 

So age and length of time in the lifestyle is not really a determining factor, or shouldn't be.  What is in the heart and soul of the other person is what truly matters.  YOU may have to kiss a hundred frogs before you find your prince, but he is out there.  I have been looking now for a number of years to find my right submissive, so I know it does not come easy, or around the corner like a bus or cab when you need them.  Just talk, be honest, learn about the other person from the outside in, and eventually you will get there as equals, and then when your reasonably content with them, then you can commit.  Picture looking for a new place to live, you are shown a slightly aged cottage and from walking around the outside, you see that it needs a little bit of work, but once your shown the inside, you see all of the amenities that you were wanting, you feel warm and cosey, you feel safe and secure, and you know this is where you want to live for the rest of your life. 

This is simply ***y beautifully put ❤

[lo****]

Well stated all of you

[Si****]

As a 47 y/o Dom, I consider my sub to be equal, even when being submissive. There is (IMO) nothing wrong with a sub knowing what she likes and dislikes and being free to say so right from the start. If the Dom doesn't know what the sub desires, how can he know what the limits are and what makes her go ooow.

The whole point of safe words is so both the sub and Dom can communicate during play. Therefore, open and free communication has to come from the sub.

A sub shouldn't just give the gift of their submission to a Dom and a Dom should never demand it. A Dom must earn it.

I take pride in being old fashioned with regards to being a gentleman. I love holding a door open for a lady and I insist my sub lets me do that for her. It is my responsibility to ensure my sub is safe, warm and happy, why? because she is mine. Not because i say so (she can walk any time) but because I respect the gift she gives me.

The problem i see with new Doms is they are in a rush to get what they want. The proof is clear in the messages my sub gets where they cant even be bothered to put any effort into the messages they send her. Most of which don't even have their own lives in order, how on earth can they have control over another and expect them to put their health in their hands when the Dom fails to care for himself?

[cautiousswitch]

The age thing could be supply and demand.  Before the internet it was harder to discuss kink anonymously so fewer people did.  Society was less accepting of kink, so fewer people talked about it.  There were fewer places to buy supplies, so they were more expensive, so fewer people practiced it.  The dominants could be more controlling because the submissives had fewer dominants to choose from.

The discussions about "real" domination on the forum tend to fall into three categories - scammers, *** vs consensual kink, and people arguing that it's not real domination if the submissive has a choice.  The last of these does seem to be mostly older men, though there are a few younger ones who just seem abusive making this argument.

So far as topping from the bottom, you aren't doing this at all.  The concept of a slave contract predates most of us and its purpose is to spell out what each person can expect from the relationship.  Speaking of scammers, when a conversation leads to, "Would you like to be my slave?" my response is usually, "What do you expect of a slave?" The correct answer should involve asking what my limits are.  This is not topping from the bottom, it's sanity.

[Deleted Member]

4 minutes ago, cautiousswitch said:

The age thing could be supply and demand.  Before the internet it was harder to discuss kink anonymously so fewer people did.  Society was less accepting of kink, so fewer people talked about it.  There were fewer places to buy supplies, so they were more expensive, so fewer people practiced it.  The dominants could be more controlling because the submissives had fewer dominants to choose from.

The discussions about "real" domination on the forum tend to fall into three categories - scammers, *** vs consensual kink, and people arguing that it's not real domination if the submissive has a choice.  The last of these does seem to be mostly older men, though there are a few younger ones who just seem abusive making this argument.

So far as topping from the bottom, you aren't doing this at all.  The concept of a slave contract predates most of us and its purpose is to spell out what each person can expect from the relationship.  Speaking of scammers, when a conversation leads to, "Would you like to be my slave?" my response is usually, "What do you expect of a slave?" The correct answer should involve asking what my limits are.  This is not topping from the bottom, it's sanity.

Thank you for your insight to the topic... the reason I need this two way conversation at first is to ensure a correct fit. I could talk to someone and we could have matching kinks, limits ect but as two people just not gel. In my opinion this wouldn’t lend itself to a good match that’ll stand the test of time. To me a D/S relationship isn’t just in the bedroom. I want my Dominant in my head space at all times, when making a decision I’d like them to be at the forefront of my weighing pros and cons.... ‘what would Sir advise..’ I feel for this to be the case we’d need to share standards in real life. I also want them to be a confidant, to be able to help me heal from non kink trauma and I the same for them. Dominants are seen to be big and strong but sometimes they need input on situations too.. for this there needs to be more than a kink connection. Finally I’d like help with growth, for my Dominant to identify my flaws (there’s a few) and help me correct these to be the best I can be.

 

so not much really 😂

[cautiousswitch]

28 minutes ago, little_dark_princess said:

Thank you for your insight to the topic... the reason I need this two way conversation at first is to ensure a correct fit. I could talk to someone and we could have matching kinks, limits ect but as two people just not gel. In my opinion this wouldn’t lend itself to a good match that’ll stand the test of time. To me a D/S relationship isn’t just in the bedroom. I want my Dominant in my head space at all times, when making a decision I’d like them to be at the forefront of my weighing pros and cons.... ‘what would Sir advise..’ I feel for this to be the case we’d need to share standards in real life. I also want them to be a confidant, to be able to help me heal from non kink trauma and I the same for them. Dominants are seen to be big and strong but sometimes they need input on situations too.. for this there needs to be more than a kink connection. Finally I’d like help with growth, for my Dominant to identify my flaws (there’s a few) and help me correct these to be the best I can be.

 

so not much really 😂

Yes, it's just like vanilla dating.  What initially attracts someone to somebody else is usually just one part of who they are.  If the two don't mesh on more than that initial point of attraction then the relationship doesn't have much of a chance.

 

[Si****]

Agreed, friendship first. followed by built trust, then if there is chemistry, play (with or without sex).

[Deleted Member]

55 minutes ago, SirGreen said:

Agreed, friendship first. followed by built trust, then if there is chemistry, play (with or without sex).

That being said SirGreen do you approach as your role or as you? 

[li****]

Some would say I am fairly new to the scene also I've identified as a sub for many years but only recently lived the lifestyle the last 4 years. I have always been attracted to older men/Dom's myself, they just seem to know what they want and know what they are after. I'm not saying young Dom's don't but the younger Dom's I've spoken to don't really have that experience yet that I'm after in a Dom, yes my Sir I'm with now is older then me and has more experience ect but he's always learning something new too as much as I'm also learning more and more.  But like it's been said age doesn't really have anything to do with it as long as you click and get on ect age doesn't matter.

We got to know each other as friends first, kink talk never entered our minds at all in the beginning. Then it moved on to certain things like limits, safewords ect then it started to become more D/s talk only then did I give over my submission. 

And what you say about yes you can have the same kinks and like the same things but if you're not attracted to that person from the beginning and don't gel then of course there is no point of it going on any longer. And that's where I think it's important to like you say get to know that person first until you give over your submission they have no right to take or demand anything from you at all. I always say kink talk should come last when your talking to someone. 

I do tend to push a lot in the beginning I like to push as much as I can to see if the Dom will give me something back!! This has caused problems before in past D/s experiences I've had just cause the Dom can't be bothered or just think I'm being childish (bratty)🙄😂 but yes I push and it does come across bratty but it's only to see if that Dom can handle some of my sass and feistiness that I have buckets of 😂 some D's in the past couldn't handle it. I always say a D/s is 50/50 you give back as much as you take it's all about balance and knowing each other so well. I can't stand all this who has the more power blah blah yes you hold the power in the beginning until you give over that gift of submission, then it becomes 50/50 you have just as much say as he does in anything.

The Dom needs to get inside your head and know who you are 100% they need to know when something is wrong and that's during play and out of it. That goes for if your a sub/slave/pet ect the Dom needs to know you inside and out and you the same you need to know him just as much. But that happens over time and of course getting to know each other from the beginning. 

[Wo****]

1 hour ago, little_dark_princess said:

Thank you for your insight to the topic... the reason I need this two way conversation at first is to ensure a correct fit. I could talk to someone and we could have matching kinks, limits ect but as two people just not gel. In my opinion this wouldn’t lend itself to a good match that’ll stand the test of time. To me a D/S relationship isn’t just in the bedroom. I want my Dominant in my head space at all times, when making a decision I’d like them to be at the forefront of my weighing pros and cons.... ‘what would Sir advise..’ I feel for this to be the case we’d need to share standards in real life. I also want them to be a confidant, to be able to help me heal from non kink trauma and I the same for them. Dominants are seen to be big and strong but sometimes they need input on situations too.. for this there needs to be more than a kink connection. Finally I’d like help with growth, for my Dominant to identify my flaws (there’s a few) and help me correct these to be the best I can be.

 

so not much really 😂

Good for you!

You know what you want and expect from a (bdsm) relationship.

It is possible. I'm nearly 50 and it's taken me this long, but it's possible. I met Pirate and (I really hope he doesn't read this bit because it'll freak him right out, lol) I really think I've found my forever relationship with him.

We are having fun, exploring things, getting to know each other, in kink and non kink ways. We talk, about what we want, how we see things going, we discuss politics and philosophy, we fool around and play scrabble, we have sex and play or just enjoy each other's company.

I look up to him as my dominant, my protector, mentor, lover, friend.

[Deleted Member]

@lil-monster & @LazyPiratesBounty

I hope that one day I can find what you both have 💗

[li****]

28 minutes ago, little_dark_princess said:

@lil-monster & @LazyPiratesBounty

I hope that one day I can find what you both have 💗

You will hun 💜 I know it's hard it just takes time and patience. You'll find him beaut 💜

[Si****]

1 hour ago, little_dark_princess said:

That being said SirGreen do you approach as your role or as you? 

both are the same. I am, i don't act.