Deleted Member Posted May 3, 2020 Posted May 3, 2020 Love is not a thing to be bought and devotion is not a thing to be proved with trinkets and baubles. If you have to spend *** to prove it, it is not devotion. And if you demand gifts before you can give it, it isn't love. A Master or Mistress who truly loves their submissive, gives love to their sub in order to earn their devotion. And a submissive who is truly devoted to their Dominant, shows devotion in order to earn their love. It is an equal exchange of heart, mind, and soul. 25 years ago, I had my first experience. I was taught what a whip felt like so that I would know what a submissive felt at my hand. I learned what it felt like to kneel on a stone basement floor, so that I would always give my submissive firs for their knees. I learned what deep scratches felt like on my back, so that I would never leave open flesh on my submissive. I learned that you cannot manipulate, coerce, or *** adoration and tribute from a slave. They must offer you their body, their mind, their heart, and their gifts. They aren't for you to rip from them whether they are littles, sissies, traditional submissives, or slaves. Even a hardcore massochist has limits that must be understood. 25 years ago, I bled to learn how not to draw *** without full consent and calculated safety. I have been a slave. I have been a traditional submissive. I have been a traditional Dominant. I have even been a panty clad sissy. In my life in BDSM, I have been ***ed on, beaten, and flogged for over an hour in one go. I have been broken, ***d, manipulated and rescued just as I was becoming suicidal. And that is what gave me the resolute and unwavering belief that nobody will ever be treated as anything but precious by me. Nobody will ever be ***d to give anything. And, that as a switch, if I kneel at the feet of anyone, it will be because I choose to give them my devotion of heart, mind, and body. Not because they ***d it out of me, or manipulated me into it. And not because they made me buy their love with gifts.
ey**** Posted May 3, 2020 Posted May 3, 2020 One thing I often find interesting. When people talk "old school" there's often so many different ways "old school" is described. A lot of this comes I guess with how things developed in different regions before the melting point of ideas came together. I think if you have a method that works for you - that's good. I think others can also become great via different routes. - I massively agree about forcing submission. A lot of this comes from a lot of fantasy and there's a lot of people who are fighting against this idea because it's deeply unhealthy. Submission should be offered willingly, or not at all. - ***/gifts I often think raises interesting points (and some of the same ) but, if we're *really* talking old school. Paying tribute (willingly) was a big part (I'm going back thousands of years mind) and if we go back hundreds of years then early kink was generally only with sex workers (so, paid) A lot more seems to be about *** because of the melting pots and a lot of confusion. But, I dunno. We accept the idea in vanilla relationships about asking to buy someone a drink so we can try to impress them; or taking them out for a meal to get to know them. But the concept of presenting someone with a gift to show we're interested in *them* and not just *anyone* in kink seems frowned upon. That, if I'm in the supermarket - I might see something nice I'm not interested in but I know my wife will squee at when they're helping unpack the shopping at home - say I've picked them up a favourite drink, or cheese, or chocolate - and that's just a vanilla thing - and that seems OK. But then in kink the concept of presenting someone with flowers (or something) as a thank you for taking their time with you in helping you explore sex and fantasies - again, seems frowned upon. I don't always *get* that.
Deleted Member Posted May 3, 2020 Author Posted May 3, 2020 Loving this so hard. Thank you. I needed to hear this today.
Wo**** Posted May 3, 2020 Posted May 3, 2020 35 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said: One thing I often find interesting. When people talk "old school" there's often so many different ways "old school" is described. A lot of this comes I guess with how things developed in different regions before the melting point of ideas came together. I think if you have a method that works for you - that's good. I think others can also become great via different routes. - I massively agree about forcing submission. A lot of this comes from a lot of fantasy and there's a lot of people who are fighting against this idea because it's deeply unhealthy. Submission should be offered willingly, or not at all. - ***/gifts I often think raises interesting points (and some of the same ) but, if we're *really* talking old school. Paying tribute (willingly) was a big part (I'm going back thousands of years mind) and if we go back hundreds of years then early kink was generally only with sex workers (so, paid) A lot more seems to be about *** because of the melting pots and a lot of confusion. But, I dunno. We accept the idea in vanilla relationships about asking to buy someone a drink so we can try to impress them; or taking them out for a meal to get to know them. But the concept of presenting someone with a gift to show we're interested in *them* and not just *anyone* in kink seems frowned upon. That, if I'm in the supermarket - I might see something nice I'm not interested in but I know my wife will squee at when they're helping unpack the shopping at home - say I've picked them up a favourite drink, or cheese, or chocolate - and that's just a vanilla thing - and that seems OK. But then in kink the concept of presenting someone with flowers (or something) as a thank you for taking their time with you in helping you explore sex and fantasies - again, seems frowned upon. I don't always *get* that. Tributes are something that confuse me.... like, I totally get buying gifts for someone (we all like getting gifts) but a tribute.... why? It seems to be saying that you can be "brought" Is a tribute really a gift or is it just payment? Is it a "pro domme" thing?
ey**** Posted May 3, 2020 Posted May 3, 2020 17 minutes ago, LazyPiratesBounty said: Tributes are something that confuse me.... like, I totally get buying gifts for someone (we all like getting gifts) but a tribute.... why? It seems to be saying that you can be "brought" Is a tribute really a gift or is it just payment? Is it a "pro domme" thing? It depends on the motivation - but - generally, tribute when relating to Pro-Domme services are usually just the fee/payment. But, using the word 'tribute' to romance it up a little bit - but then - that's always been done throughout history (giving a share of your crops as 'tribute' to a local lord or lady) The concept of consent can be bought is another good discussion for another thread - I think it's complex.
Ky**** Posted May 3, 2020 Posted May 3, 2020 @LazyPiratesBounty in my experience yes tribute is a part of the pro Domme thing. In that case I think it works very well calling it that. After all it enhances the fantasy of the buyer being a submissive. It is one of the problems of approaching a pro-Domme that there's always the knowledge at the back of your mind that in reality you are paying a commercial sex worker, which is not a very sub thing to do even if she is a specialised one. Whoever thought up calling the fee a 'tribute' is a genius because it allows the 'sub' to mask this fact and pretend that they are bringing a tribute to a superior being, something that enhances the enjoyment by maintaining the fantasy senario
sissy_petra_uk_slut Posted May 3, 2020 Posted May 3, 2020 I think the big difference for myself, is I would tribute my Mistress because it brings me joy to do that. It shows thoughtfulness and caring, as it was said, in vanilla if we buy flowers or chocolates , we do it because we care enough to see the smile, the eyes sparkle with surprise. What I do detest is these so called mistresses who demand a token, before any kind of relationship has even started as a sign of loyalty. Unfortunately this is occurring far to often. It is a gift, not am expectation, to be given freely and with feeling, not because it is ***d or expected. Two opposites
Th**** Posted May 3, 2020 Posted May 3, 2020 @Masterswitch Firstly, let me say that I totally respect the fact that you are absolutely entitled to hold any opinion on this subject and this just my take. 8 hours ago, Masterswitch777 said: Love is not a thing to be bought On that front I totally agree with you. 8 hours ago, Masterswitch777 said: devotion is not a thing to be proved with trinkets and baubles. This is where our opinions diverge. I think that it is perfectly normal for someone to express devotion by making a sacrifice of some form. Now while this can be expressed by kneeling, service, or hundreds of other ways, it is definitely valid that a gift of whatever sort could be used as well as an expression of devotion without cheapening the expression of that emotion. As a proof to this I would point to most religions throughout history, whose devotions often include leaving a gift upon an altar etc. Regarding consent I could not agree more. Fully Infomed Express Ongoing Consent is one of the most important basics of the lifestyle. I believe paying a Pro Dominant is only Implied Consent in itself. Be Happy.
Deleted Member Posted May 3, 2020 Author Posted May 3, 2020 (edited) The devotions that you are talking about are voluntary. I sacrifice something of value because I am already getting joy, peace, or comfort. I am not ***d to do it under the threat of no longer getting that comfort. That little bit of dedpotism was reserved for ancient kings. Trading sexual favors for cash you demand to receive is not even close to the same thing. Edited May 3, 2020 by Deleted Member
Deleted Member Posted May 3, 2020 Author Posted May 3, 2020 3 hours ago, pappaman said: I think the big difference for myself, is I would tribute my Mistress because it brings me joy to do that. It shows thoughtfulness and caring, as it was said, in vanilla if we buy flowers or chocolates , we do it because we care enough to see the smile, the eyes sparkle with surprise. What I do detest is these so called mistresses who demand a token, before any kind of relationship has even started as a sign of loyalty. Unfortunately this is occurring far to often. It is a gift, not am expectation, to be given freely and with feeling, not because it is ***d or expected. Two opposites You hit the nail on the head. Because you want to give it. Not because it was ***d from you.
Deleted Member Posted May 3, 2020 Author Posted May 3, 2020 5 hours ago, MsWhiteRose said: Loving this so hard. Thank you. I needed to hear this today. Well, I just write what I feel. I hope it helps.
Deleted Member Posted May 3, 2020 Author Posted May 3, 2020 Great post and very true. It's important to be aware of how others are feeling and this is more so with Dom/sub dynamics as Doms have a strong position of power and influence. Just as a bad Dom can seriously damage a subs mind, good Doms can also help build a person's confidence and trust. The most rewarding thing I have experienced in my years of BDSM is seeing a girl who got scared when holding hands in public become a strong and energetic person. In regards to gifts I agree. The simple thing is if you demand a gift from me I will walk away happy knowing I've dodged a bullet. However for kindhearted ones who only want my affection I enjoy surprising them with gifts. What's more those are the people who appreciate thought out into gifts aswell not the pricetag.
ey**** Posted May 4, 2020 Posted May 4, 2020 At first (and I think it still does) this reads more anti-gift than anything else. Which is then later clarified that a gift offered willingly is in fact a form of devotion. Which it can be. Or a nice way to say thank you. - I think there's a lot of blurred worlds between online, offline, professional etc. I've never approached anyone in a fetish space and had them ask me to get them a drink (though, have in a vanilla space. they're also a good icebreaker) Professional is a different kettle of fish, you're not paying for someone's love or affection, you're paying for their time - during wish you can learn or try stuff or whatever. Mind, there's several Professionals I know who gained personal subs who they do have love or affection for which were met via what was initially a paid session and/or icebreaker gift But, when you come across a Lady online who is "don't bother messaging without tribute/gift" while many would think "huh, greedy. whatever" the kinda reality is it's already an explanation on why they're not replying to the 100 "Hey" and copy-paste messages. They don't usually want the gift. They just want idiots to stop messaging them. Those whose idea of submission is "here is the list of things I want you to do for me"
Deleted Member Posted May 4, 2020 Author Posted May 4, 2020 Problem is it's not 25 years ago. The internets creation has caused this. Generation instant gratification has just turned everything into a swipe left or right situation.. There is no feeling in anything anymore. If anything it's made things more difficult because how choosy people have become and it all boils down to a profile picture...this is why alot are turning away from dating in general there is nothing appealing about it and too many hoops to be expected to jump through. Sad but true
Ky**** Posted May 4, 2020 Posted May 4, 2020 @eyemblacksheep isn't having that about don't bother messaging without tribute a *** of the rules on here? When I signed up I was asked do I offer paid for services, I thought that to answer yes you had to purchase a special category of membership. Interestingly every time I've been asked for tribute etc by a Lady I'd pmed, or they had me, when I next looked at my message feed they'd been kicked out for failing to abide by site rules.
Ky**** Posted May 4, 2020 Posted May 4, 2020 @Chiana not sure its entirely internet, 25 years ago I met plenty of self entitled/instant gratification idiots as well
ey**** Posted May 4, 2020 Posted May 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Kymi said: isn't having that about don't bother messaging without tribute a *** of the rules on here? yes. but it's not against the rules on other sites. 1 hour ago, Kymi said: Interestingly every time I've been asked for tribute etc by a Lady I'd pmed, or they had me, when I next looked at my message feed they'd been kicked out for failing to abide by site rules. Yep - this website in particular is generally really good at dealing with this.
ey**** Posted May 4, 2020 Posted May 4, 2020 3 hours ago, Chiana said: Generation instant gratification has just turned everything into a swipe left or right situation. There's a blog I scrapped on this - but generally; I agree. And I think we're in a kinda era where a few clicks on my phone I can have a taxi ordered, or a restaurant deliver me a meal I'm not entirely sure how successful people are on "hook up" sites like Tindr etc. but there is the illusion of an easy NSA date if nothing else. For various (good) reasons this, in general, hasn't happened in kink. You can't swipe a few profiles and message a few matches and be an owned sub or have a fully trained slave by Friday - and some people don't like this.
Ky**** Posted May 5, 2020 Posted May 5, 2020 one thing occurred to me overnight about this whole giving gifts thing, when I were young and naïve it was the done thing for the man to pay for everything, I wonder if this *** upfront is so different in concept to the man asking the girl out, having a car, paying for dinner, cinema tickets etc
ey**** Posted May 5, 2020 Posted May 5, 2020 15 minutes ago, Kymi said: when I were young and naïve it was the done thing for the man to pay for everything, I wonder if this *** upfront is so different in concept to the man asking the girl out, having a car, paying for dinner, cinema tickets etc this is something I touched upon above. In vanilla dating - traditionally, you might approach someone in a bar with a drink. You might tell someone you like them with a gift of flowers/chocolates/wine (especially on valentines day) when you went for the inevitable date the man would normally cover it. If we go to the days of single income households - the man would go out and work (whilst the woman would generally homemake) and he'd be covering all the bills and potentially even giving her "an allowance" In none of these examples would we say it was buying love or affection
Ky**** Posted May 5, 2020 Posted May 5, 2020 @eyemblacksheep damn, looks like I've missed out, when I were a young man it was expected that I'd pay, now I'm a mature woman I've got to go halves! I can't expect the man to buy me and give me an allowance? boo hiss, bring back the old days. Seriously, it is confusing to me the boundaries of when payment for things is allowed etc.
ey**** Posted May 5, 2020 Posted May 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, Kymi said: I can't expect the man to buy me and give me an allowance? sadly, I feel largely due to capitalism, that single-income households are a thing very much of the past haha. 2 minutes ago, Kymi said: Seriously, it is confusing to me the boundaries of when payment for things is allowed etc. yep - I think what is also touched on is the difference between a payment/gift when you want to versus when it's planted as an expectancy - and - even as an expectancy when it's reasonable.
Ky**** Posted May 5, 2020 Posted May 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said: yep - I think what is also touched on is the difference between a payment/gift when you want to versus when it's planted as an expectancy - and - even as an expectancy when it's reasonable. and that clears things up? I must be dumbing down because I'm even more confused than ever, although it may not just be me relationships always have been minefields lol
Deleted Member Posted May 9, 2020 Author Posted May 9, 2020 I ♥️ the "old school way" without being materialistic. Gifts/treats I can buy for myself. However, I believe gifts are an outward offering of an internal feeling. ♥️ If I'm fucking someone, they are at least buying dinner 🤷♀️
Ky**** Posted May 9, 2020 Posted May 9, 2020 29 minutes ago, rome490 said: I ♥️ the "old school way" without being materialistic. Gifts/treats I can buy for myself. However, I believe gifts are an outward offering of an internal feeling. ♥️ If I'm fucking someone, they are at least buying dinner 🤷♀️ dinner at least with you all the way ma'am
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