The importance of LIMITS

[Cade]

3 hours ago, LazyPiratesBounty said:

Just so we're reading from the same page @Cade.

I don't disagree with you.

I've read your profile (which is so good, on so many levels) and someone like you, who (Forgive my bluntness) isn't a dick, it's a little bit different.

You would respond to the eyeball thing! Was half expecting a message from someone "finally! Someone shares my kinks" 

I like trying to see different perspectives. 

 

I appreciate that not everyone (And I include myself in this) needs to use a safe word but I have one.

Limits wise... I suppose it's that I'd never say I have none, maybe not found (m)any but none? 

 

Safe words and limits offer a safety framework. Fits in with RACK and SSC.

Makes sense to me, particularly within the "darker" side.

If your play involves a bit of light spanking and name calling there's not really much need but if your play involves whipping and potentially risky things isn't it wise to at least start with a safety net?

 

Maybe it's different if you're actually living a D/s relationship. Idk.

Did your current dynamic start out with no limits or safe words?

No, starting out with a new potential (and with casual players), I employ basic "stoplight" safewords and limits are discussed along with the long-term goals (in this case, getting to a point of no limit interactions). During the consideration period (basically, the first year), safewords and limits are considered and respected as this is one of the ways trust is formed; any CNC activities that occurs during this time is outlined by contract and discussed in full. If after that year, the individual is found worthy of training (read as: capable), then they are collared and begin slave training - a seven year process for my dynamic. During this time, safewords and limits begin to be addressed and pushed. In the ideal situation, at the end of those seven years, the individual would be branded as property and claimed as my slave - this is where we finally reach that depth of relationship to be "no limits".

Personally, I would still put safety framework under protocol; after all, protocol tells you what to do in a given situation, limits tell you what to DON'T. If my sub or slave gets damaged, I wouldn't want to stand over them wondering what to do...but hey, at least I'll know what their limits are while they are dying! Haha.

[Vandalslut]

15 hours ago, LazyPiratesBounty said:

Fine.. my kink is peeling your eyeballs with a potato peeler...

PLEASE!!!  I just had lunch!

[Wo****]

7 hours ago, Cade said:

If my sub or slave gets damaged, I wouldn't want to stand over them wondering what to do...but hey, at least I'll know what their limits are while they are dying! Haha.

The whole point of safe words is to prevent that from happening.

I disagree safe words are protocol, they're a tool to help prevent injuries and damage.

 

Do you drive? Do you wear a seatbelt? 

Safe words are a seatbelt.

 

Getting to a point in a relationship where safe words aren't used because they're never needed due to knowing each other, having built up the trust, had the communications is a lot different to just claiming no need for them, as is not having found a limit to boasting you'll do anything.

[Ky****]

1 hour ago, LazyPiratesBounty said:

The whole point of safe words is to prevent that from happening.

I disagree safe words are protocol, they're a tool to help prevent injuries and damage.

Do you drive? Do you wear a seatbelt? 

Safe words are a seatbelt.

Getting to a point in a relationship where safe words aren't used because they're never needed due to knowing each other, having built up the trust, had the communications is a lot different to just claiming no need for them, as is not having found a limit to boasting you'll do anything.

seat belt may not be a good analogy because we were ***d by the government to wear them, except in old vehicles in which they were never fitted, not sure what the moral of the second is but for the first if safe words are like seat belts then they are imposed not agreed

[ey****]

I feel there's a lot going on and that I've missed some bits

But - I think a lot of relationships are different and individuals are different.  There always should be a means to stay stop - and granted, you know this won't save you from someone who means you malice, but you at least know you signalled to stop and it didn't, therefore malicious, rather than you let it continue despite being unhappy with it.

The idea of a safeword is to separate out "No - but actually yes" and "No. Really no" (incidentally, "No" is a perfectly valid safeword especially for new partners) 

But ultimately people and relationships are different.   There are two ladies I've been playing with who both have being pissed on as a limit... but one day I will piss on one of them, but won't piss on the other.   Because folk are different.  And one likes playing with limits, and especially likes to be in *** situations where the aggressor can do as he wishes - the other places more trust in being in *** situations.

I think it's perfectly possible and valid to get to a point in a relationship where safewords aren't really needed - that's valid : but even a relationship of 10+ years with CNC and many limits smashed and so on, so forth - there's still, ultimately, that possibility that one day the person needs to say 'no' - and that's no bad reflection on either themselves nor their Dominant.

[Ky****]

@eyemblacksheep although No isn't much use if you are into CNC, part of that game is to keep saying, even screaming it to your 'attacker', when No really means No but I don't mean it rather than No= yes

[ey****]

1 hour ago, Kymi said:

@eyemblacksheep although No isn't much use if you are into CNC, part of that game is to keep saying, even screaming it to your 'attacker', when No really means No but I don't mean it rather than No= yes

Well, yes.  In CNC "no" has no meaning.  But, this is a separate ball.  There still always has to be an out.  That might not be at the time, that might even be in aftercare "that thing we did today... I want to do that less in the future. In fact, I don't want to do it again in the future" 

How that then affects the relationship is it's own thing.  The Dominant might refuse that request in which case it's up to the submissive if they want to continue on a route they're unhappy with - and if they felt their Dominants happiness was more important than their dislike that would be fair, but then also a question of if the Dominant can be happy repeatedly asking a submissive to do something they're unhappy with.

[Master50]

Safe words r a must but a true and real master/Dom needs to have one but also must respect it. If ur interested contact me

[Ky****]

@eyemblacksheep I wasn't arguing against kinits or safewords, merely making the observation that for some forms of BDSM play No isn't a very good safeword since it undermines the fantasy element

[ey****]

49 minutes ago, Kymi said:

@eyemblacksheep I wasn't arguing against kinits or safewords, merely making the observation that for some forms of BDSM play No isn't a very good safeword since it undermines the fantasy element

Oh. Got you.

I feel like a lot of things - context is important.   

I think that safety is more important than fantasy - and safety is a two way thing.  That particularly if people are new to playing together, particularly if someone is new to kink or inexperienced, that "no" is valid.

"Can I do this to you?"

"No, I mean, red, I mean sausages, I mean..." it just adds confusion.  

But that might be different with more experienced players where someone picks up a big nasty cane (or whatever)

"No...."

"Oh yes..."

"No..."

"You're strapped down, ***, at my mercy - I'm going to do this to you"

"No...."

*thwack*

And that same scenario can be hot as fuck or it can be completely unacceptable and that's why context is important.

[Ky****]

@eyemblacksheep yes that last is what I had in mind by saying choose another word

[Jeckmansr]

With my training and my last mistress’s I’ve served. I have been involved with a few and I believe in consensual nonconsent. Yes I do have a few limits I won’t miss him here. But in essence my mistress has the final word on everything. Whether I like it or not. I am there to serve her and please her in anyway I can. So if I’m beaten into submission for something I did, I understand it is my fault. So I don’t know if this is really a good answer to the thread but I thought I put my two cents in.

[Leisa]

I saw this post and was not going to post at all since my philosophy is to live and let live however to say there are no limits is dumbfounding to me. Whether we can articulate them in a concise manner or not, we all have them. I for one only put on my hard limit list things I know I will never be willing to cross either because I know that they are things I cannot and will not cross or because I’ve tried it and know it’s something I cannot do.

On that same note, contracts are extremely important. Speaking from someone who’s been in the legal field for over 20 years I know the overall contract is not en***able In court, there are most definitely some aspects that can be en***d in the legal ring but that’s between you and your Dom/s and your individual lawyers to discuss. Yes, I absolutely think a contract should be reviewed by a licensed professional especially now as the BDSM community is being more open to exploration and acceptance. Spend the time and funds to have your contract reviewed. I cannot stress this enough.
I was reading in some of the comments that safe words/signals were not needed due to one reason or another. Safe words are and need to be in place for a reason. Not just for the subs protection but for the Dom’s protection as well. Their needs to be both a verbal and a non-verbal safety net set into place. Whether it’s ever used or not is for the sub to decide. If a Dom cannot accept and respect the need for this then that needs to lead to another discussion. The goal is to never need to use them but that only comes with time and the development of the relationship. I would never enter nor continue a relationship where there was not an agreement prior to taking anything past the getting to know you phase in a new potential relationship.

Limits, they’re in place for a reason. For me soft limits include something I may or may not be willing to explore. For me I’ve never understood why there isn’t a third category where there are limits that need to be discussed before the relationship progresses and/or play begins. Where there are hard soft limit whereby there needs to be a discussion before those limits are tested and soft limits are those that can be tested during play with the knowledge that if either party finds it’s not something they want to continue your safe words can be used. If you pushed past the experience and don’t want to engage in that activity again those can be moved to the hard limits category and vice verse. Hard limits. For me those are things I’ve explored prior and know I will never enjoy or things I’m so uncomfortable with I would never try such as actions that leave scars that cannot be erased. I also know that because of who I am as an individual eliminates certain roles I’d be willing to enter into and those too need to be discussed.

Ultimately what it all boils down to is trust. If you cannot trust the other party to respect and honor your commitment to the relationship both before and during you need to walk away. Lack of communication is a screaming red flag and someone needs to walk away. In fact if there are any red flags things need to not progress any further. This is true both before the relationship begins and during - red flags don’t go away. Sorry for the small novel.

[Deleted Member]

I strongly believe in the importance of limits, not as a fun and/or passion killer but also as something to be pushed and explored. As stated in original post limits are fluid and who we are today is not who we will be in six months 💗

[Deleted Member]

There has to be limits, if you say you have no limits, then you’re basically saying go ahead and cut with that knife, this is a limit is it not?

[Th****]

Popping back into this thread again, so many good view points here and mutual respect.. Way to go!

Regarding all the numerous comments on safe words I do favor my sub having one or more. I can though totally see the other point of view.

Ultimately we all have safe words because if you're submissive shouts *Just f**King stop you a*# hat" then I think the majority of domininants would break play just to check if everything is alright. Unless it has been previously arranged.

One other thing occurred to me regarding the safe word issue from personal experience and that is if you are a Dominant and you're sub has their safe word. Once your submissive gets beyond a certain point in subspace there is every chance she will be unable to use it. It is possible she will be unable to vocalise.

So when looking at Risk Assessed Consensual Kink it is worth bearing in mind that some contingencies may require a better method of communicating before that ability is impeded.

Regarding Cades point on not having a safe word I think his point may have got lost in the back lash.

His relationship is old, one built on trust that one another will respect each others limits. Even if those are not expressly stated.

There is something to be said to taking your time and learning one another until you can pick up on the most miniscule signals, even the subconscious ones.

There are many safe ways to do this and the main rule is that whichever you choose just make sure you both know one another's preferences and no go areas before it gets too serious.

Stay safe Freaks and Freaklets

[Deleted Member]

I think most people who said they don’t have limits do it for the thrill, knowing deep inside that their Dom won’t be a psycho obviously. They get the kick by they might submit to Hannibal.
But it’s wiser to establish a list of limits unless you like to be used unexpectedly as a human toilet for example 🤷‍♂️

[WickedSabina]

I am starting to learn some of my limits. But i know what i have no desire to try. I believe you have to have limits so everyone enjoys the adventure

[Deleted Member]

For me, we all should set our own moral limits aswell. Show respect to others, don't send unsolicited dick picks, don't pressure for pics etc When a message says a polite no thanks leave that person in peace. It's all well and good paying lip.service on a public forum like this when in private you're a bit of a c**t.

Edited May 21, 2020 by Deleted Member
Formatting/and or spelling adjustment to make content SFW

[Deleted Member]

A lot of us need to look at ourselves and our own personal character limits aswell as these types of limits. It's all well and good paying lip service on a public forum when at the same time sending unsolicited dick picks or pressuring young ladies relentlessly for nudes, sending message after message when it's made clear not interested. What you do on your own when interacting with others also has limits but ones you choose yourself. Character limits, some have, some dont.

[ey****]

2 hours ago, Donnykinkster said:

. It's all well and good paying lip service on a public forum when at the same time sending unsolicited dick picks or pressuring young ladies relentlessly for nudes

A meme just came up on my facebook memories - I can't share here but it basically has a story of a Nephew who asked out a girl and got knocked back "You know what to do?" said the Auntie, "I know, try try again" - "No, leave her alone - she gave you your answer"

And there's a lot in there that sending dick pics, pursuing someone who has already said no, so on - these are all examples of breaking/ignoring someone else's boundaries and a sign they risk breaking or coercing on other boundaries.

[Deleted Member]

22 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

A meme just came up on my facebook memories - I can't share here but it basically has a story of a Nephew who asked out a girl and got knocked back "You know what to do?" said the Auntie, "I know, try try again" - "No, leave her alone - she gave you your answer"

And there's a lot in there that sending dick pics, pursuing someone who has already said no, so on - these are all examples of breaking/ignoring someone else's boundaries and a sign they risk breaking or coercing on other boundaries.

Can't fault that thinking mate and from what I've learned the last few days from speaking to a few young ladies that's pretty much how it plays out. What grips my shit is it seems to be those who try in public anyway to be super "doms" that are the main culprits for this. The same names time after time and for some of these young ladies it unnerves  them slightly, scared would be too strong a word but thats the impression im getting.

[Deleted Member]

A lot of the comments I have read off here seem to come from people aho have had experience and have learnt how important limits are. I 100% agree that having limits is important even if they are silly things whilst you are exploring what your actual limits are whether they are soft or hard.

As someone who is still early on in learning and exploring I would just like to say that when you first start out discovering what you want from this lifestyle, you often dont know the etiquette and you dont know what to expect from a dom or sub It is all new territory and pretty confusing and scary at times. So sometimes subs or even doms will say 'I dont have limits' because they haven't had enough experience to learn what they are yet, its not always that they are disregarding their safety, they just dont know otherwise.

I was one of those that said I dont really have any other than leaving scars, knives, needles and fire, since then I have found I have lots of soft limits and they can change depending on the dom or situation.

Who we encounter when we start our journey can be crucial as some will help us learn and make sure we understand that our safety is always important.

However unfortunately some will prey on the fact your naive and haven't yet learnt what to expect and it can make you think these preditors behaviour is what is considered 'normal'.

Like what has been previously said I've also spoken to a few subs and doms who are horrified by these people calling themselves 'doms' and 'Subs' etc. but they are actually causing more harm than good, they are pressuring people into things that if they might not understand they don't have to give out.

So for anyone who is unsure always ask a second opinion whether that is on the chat groups (I know they can look intimidating but the are nice people on there I promise) or drop a message to a couple of people and just make sure your saying your after help I'm sure they will be happy to help ☺️

[Deleted Member]

Well said  @Samantha-Jayne

[Deleted Member]

Nicely put @Samantha-Jayne