Submission is a Gift

[Koby]

We are all valuable, we are all worthy of happiness , we are all worthy of respect but....

Is someone's desire to submit a Gift?

If you do believe Submission to be a Gift? How do you show your partner that their submission in particular  is precious?

By the same token is a Masochist  a Gift? Should riggers be viewed in the same light?

[Pl****]

I think they're often gifts, but whether something is a gift isn't an inherent property. Rather, whether something is a gift depends on the intention behind it.

With the women I've been with, their submission has always been a gift, as have been all the things I've done for them. That said, I've met women that barely knew me that offered me the same. For them, I don't believe it was a gift. They're doing it because they want to, for themselves. There's nothing wrong with that, nor was it the main reason for my rejection, but I have no illusions that their submission was for my benefit.

[Carnelian2]

I don't know, as a rigger I would be nothing without a rope-bunny, and she would be nothing without me in that very moment. It is like a rider and a horse when they become as one. 

[Deleted Member]

It’s a really annoying phrase that winds me up. No, it’s not a gift in my opinion. Relationships between subs and doms are dynamic - the word gift just doesn’t fit. it’s give and take, power exchange. Not a gift from one side of the slash.

[Carnelian2]

2 hours ago, Curvykate said:

It’s a really annoying phrase that winds me up. No, it’s not a gift in my opinion. Relationships between subs and doms are dynamic - the word gift just doesn’t fit. it’s give and take, power exchange. Not a gift from one side of the slash.

... and that is exactly why I avoided the terminology. There was a long discussion a couple of months ago about that topic, I think, though, that if you look at the "gift" in relation to consent and the fact that some men look at a woman's submission as an entitlement, then it makes more sense. Submission is given consensually and not something the Dominant should take for granted.

[ey****]

It's a phrase that bugs me also - but - in context... yes... there's an often misogynistic view that women should be naturally submissive - and that's both misogynistic and entitlement - so, if a woman chooses to be subservient to a man then that is a gift.   I can accept that

But of course also that any and all relationships have two sides.

I think my problem with the phrase is I often see it cited less so by female subs who have used this as a reminder they're not anyone's sub and it's a gift if I give you my submission - y'know, the group it most applies to

And more by male subs, and, in particular - male subs who just want something to take this 'gift' who can't understand why nobody wants it.   But, like, their gift is like - I dunno, like the episode of the Simpsons where Homer gets a bowling ball for Marge.  What they're masquerading for a gift is ultimately for their benefit.   

 

[Deleted Member]

12 hours ago, Carnelian2 said:

... and that is exactly why I avoided the terminology. There was a long discussion a couple of months ago about that topic, I think, though, that if you look at the "gift" in relation to consent and the fact that some men look at a woman's submission as an entitlement, then it makes more sense. Submission is given consensually and not something the Dominant should take for granted.

I take your point, but I don’t believe that entitled dominant men would “get it” to be honest. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[Deleted Member]

33 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

It's a phrase that bugs me also - but - in context... yes... there's an often misogynistic view that women should be naturally submissive - and that's both misogynistic and entitlement - so, if a woman chooses to be subservient to a man then that is a gift.   I can accept that

But of course also that any and all relationships have two sides.

I think my problem with the phrase is I often see it cited less so by female subs who have used this as a reminder they're not anyone's sub and it's a gift if I give you my submission - y'know, the group it most applies to

And more by male subs, and, in particular - male subs who just want something to take this 'gift' who can't understand why nobody wants it.   But, like, their gift is like - I dunno, like the episode of the Simpsons where Homer gets a bowling ball for Marge.  What they're masquerading for a gift is ultimately for their benefit.   

 

I guess I don’t see this so much by male subs as I don’t know many. I still don’t think that those who need to understand the subtlety of the phrase - entitled and misogynistic male dominants - will pay any attention. But possibly I am feeling a bit cynical of late!

[Carnelian2]

2 hours ago, Curvykate said:

I guess I don’t see this so much by male subs as I don’t know many. I still don’t think that those who need to understand the subtlety of the phrase - entitled and misogynistic male dominants - will pay any attention. But possibly I am feeling a bit cynical of late!

Yes, but then, they are probably also not likely to be participating in discussions like this. ... and if someone were to reject their approaches, it would probably be down to the submissive being "difficult, to put it mildly" - You will know what you are looking for, when you find it. Until then, patience and good humour applies.

[Deleted Member]

7 minutes ago, Carnelian2 said:

Yes, but then, they are probably also not likely to be participating in discussions like this. ... and if someone were to reject their approaches, it would probably be down to the submissive being "difficult, to put it mildly" - You will know what you are looking for, when you find it. Until then, patience and good humour applies.

Oh, I think I have found what I was looking for 🤗

[Jinxy]

On 8/9/2020 at 11:12 AM, Curvykate said:

It’s a really annoying phrase that winds me up. No, it’s not a gift in my opinion. Relationships between subs and doms are dynamic - the word gift just doesn’t fit. it’s give and take, power exchange. Not a gift from one side of the slash.

I completely agree that it’s a dynamic of give and take. However, I like the term “gift” for submission because of the weight it gives the act. It adds a sense of importance to it. For those who understand their worth as a submissive (and those Dom/mes who understand it as well), it may be an extra reminder that seems out of place. Almost mansplaining, maybe? (Not just directed at men but can’t think of another word that so accurately encompasses everything I want to say). But I find it helpful in setting a precedent of recognizing that submission holds value in kink. I feel like that’s sometimes an implied notion, especially for those just starting out, that Dominants hold all the power and importance. Labeling it as a gift, while not necessarily accurate to the dynamic, might potentially help new people appreciate the value of their submission and treat it as such. That’s my take on it anyway. 😊

[Wo****]

I used to say submission is a gift..

Still do, I think, but maybe more as a gift that I have. A gift for submission when I choose.

Mind you, I'm now questioning whether I'm actually submissive. I'm definitely a "taker" a "bottom"  but does that make me submissive.... or just greedy? 😋

[Th****]

I don't dislike the phrase particularly as it was very prevalent in the community for a long time

I do have to admit that it has slightly annoyed me for years just not in any major way.

Firstly if submission is a gift then surely Dominance is as well. I do get eyemblacksheeps point that there are already enough entitled Doms around who presume to many things about Submissives. (I use the word Dom here in its widest sense).

Secondly, if submission is a gift then by time a submissive has had 2 Dominants she has had to ungift (best PC version I could find) her submission and regift it to her new Dominant.

Don't misunderstand me here, personally I think Submissives have just as much right multiple partners as Dominants do.

There has to be a better word than gift though, as in my mind it rather conjurers up an image of pass the parcel.

So what word works better?

How about just 'Giving', it does not have the one time only inference of 'gifting' and a Dominant can equally 'Give' a submissive his Dominance.

Combined they can be said to be in a power exchange, so giving works there to.

[Th****]

On 8/16/2020 at 12:23 PM, Bounty said:

Mind you, I'm now questioning whether I'm actually submissive. I'm definitely a "taker" a "bottom"  but does that make me submissive.... or just greedy? 😋

Of all people Bounty, I am sure you already know the answer to this one and it was a somewhat rhetorical question.

It is a question I have heard before from other people so I will pass comment here even though it is a bit off topic.

Being a taker and greedy as a bottom can be a wonderful thing for a Dominant. It is like having your own interactive human BDSM play set. It can be the best thing ever.

Give me a bottom that is enthusiastic every time it makes the enthusiastic ongoing consent issue easier. It lets the Dominant have a canvas to work on.

What you see as greedy others may very well see as an asset, I can not remember the number of times in play when I have as a Dominant said something like "What again, you are such a greedy girl." and it has always been a veiled compliment. 

As for your submission, you and I both know that you are the only one who can decide on that, it is in your head and not mine.

What I can say beyond any doubt though is that being greedy and being submissive are two unrelated characteristics.

Probably the question to ask maybe "Do I give back at other times?"