Naivety and those who take advantage.

[Deleted Member]

2 minutes ago, Curvykate said:

Protocol...or misogyny that some suggest women can’t say no except with specific reasons (such as being owned by a man 🙄) or that they must give all who message a fair trial etc. Ive already got a controlling ex without encountering more attempts at male control here. I guess I react against it quite strongly.

I can't say I blame you for reacting and sticking up for yourself is not reacting badly, its the only way you should react to the fools. Wow words like that anger me a little, not at you in any way but at the sheer entitlement/misogyny whatever you wish to call it. 

[ey****]

37 minutes ago, Curvykate said:

I’ve been told I’m not a real sub several times.

I find 'real' is a challenge word.   And often based on ideology.

Like. If you and a partner have a "normal" looking relationship 6 days of the week, but then on a Sunday it's kinky fun times that's valid. That's fair. That's enough.   Someone else might have had a working relationship that was different, that's also valid and enough.  

But then usually someone who hasn't had a relationship (or did and failed) probably has this big chart of what they feel is "real" 

[Deleted Member]

19 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

I find 'real' is a challenge word.   And often based on ideology.

When you talk of ideology would it be fair of me to assume that some may then see it as a right to submission and respect,  based only on the status of Dom and sub? Even on a first message for example? As if they are owed something?

[Th****]

16 hours ago, eyemblacksheep said:

"get information from more than one source"

Bravo, to that, there is a lot to be said for contrasting information from multiple sources to try and find your own truth.

 

[Th****]

3 hours ago, Donnykinkster said:

I can't say I blame you for reacting and sticking up for yourself is not reacting badly, its the only way you should react to the fools. Wow words like that anger me a little, not at you in any way but at the sheer entitlement/misogyny whatever you wish to call it. 

May I suggest Asshattery. 

[Deleted Member]

4 hours ago, Donnykinkster said:

I can't say I blame you for reacting and sticking up for yourself is not reacting badly, its the only way you should react to the fools. Wow words like that anger me a little, not at you in any way but at the sheer entitlement/misogyny whatever you wish to call it. 

I had to do some blocking in the end which is also frowned upon by some on here. But really, I do have enough hassle from an entitled, gaslighting male off-site without more on here. But I don’t wish to bring my anger and frustration into discussions. It doesn’t solve anything.

[Deleted Member]

Yesterday at 03:58 PM, Thebian said:

Alright, I am getting out the soap box now...     *Drags it over and steps up....Cough*

Although I have passed the stage where this surprises me. I would go as far as to say that that was no Dominant.

He may call himself one certainly. Yes, he certainly communicated clearly based on the description. 

The issue here is consent, not consent to coffee. Dominants in that situation know that they need to not just gain free ongoing consent but not actually manipulate a submissive into a decision with the threat breaking off contact unless things go their way.

Maybe I am just old fashioned, but their is such a thing as honourable behaviour. A Dominant needs to be trustworthy, honourable and Not a dick head.

Now this part is to those who are Dominants, and submissives who are aware of how to behave or how and respect other people. We need to dispel this sort of naivety through constant repetition and education.

Alas for everyone that sees through this there will be others on both sides of the slash who do not. As a community though we can ensure that we highlight this.

*Gets off soap box*

 

Please all who read this listen to Thebian. A proper D will not manipulate or lie to get you to do something it is a friendship of equals and massive trust. That douche baggery shouldn’t exist for dating never mind Our kind of play. NEVER EVER agree to something or someone you are not 100 per cent comfortable with. A good D and a good person should go hand in hand. And no it’s not old fashioned Thebian it’s just guys trying to get what they want regardless of another persons wishes. Insidious and nasty. Rant over *drops mic*...

[Deleted Member]

19 minutes ago, Curvykate said:

I had to do some blocking in the end which is also frowned upon by some on here. 

So it's frowned upon to block "Doms" purely because you're submissive, we are back to ideology here then yes? A mistaken impression that on the basis of a self awarded title that gives them automatic rights? 

[Deleted Member]

Equally so a sub shouldn’t expect just from a meeting it will lead to somewhere. You may not be compatible or even vibe.

[Deleted Member]

Communication, transparency and trust are paramount

[ey****]

7 hours ago, Donnykinkster said:

When you talk of ideology would it be fair of me to assume that some may then see it as a right to submission and respect,  based only on the status of Dom and sub? Even on a first message for example? As if they are owed something?

so, there's a lot when it comes to ideology.

it can be on any subject.   

So, if someone said "Back in my day - subs would be expected to reply to every message because they are being contacted by a Dominant who is assessing their suitability - and not responding means they're a bad sub" - then that is fundamentally untrue and is someone presenting how they think things should be as fact - which if you're a new sub wanting to make a good impression then you start replying to the arseholes because you feel it's what is expected

But also someone could say, "Subs should approach a prospective Dominant, head lowered, making themselves an offering and the Dominant would give them a try" then that's also an ideology

(mind - there are events where subs are given the opportunity to approach Dominants in such a way, but that's a specific protocol event and not "the norm")

[Deleted Member]

Sunday at 09:40 PM, eyemblacksheep said:

so, there's a lot when it comes to ideology.

it can be on any subject.   

So, if someone said "Back in my day - subs would be expected to reply to every message because they are being contacted by a Dominant who is assessing their suitability - and not responding means they're a bad sub" - then that is fundamentally untrue and is someone presenting how they think things should be as fact - which if you're a new sub wanting to make a good impression then you start replying to the arseholes because you feel it's what is expected

But also someone could say, "Subs should approach a prospective Dominant, head lowered, making themselves an offering and the Dominant would give them a try" then that's also an ideology

(mind - there are events where subs are given the opportunity to approach Dominants in such a way, but that's a specific protocol event and not "the norm")

You’ve sparked my thoughts about what subs owe dominants. Or not. 🧐

[Deleted Member]

Hmm. Interesting post. I definitely consider myself, but have often contemplated the origins of it. Is it because of my own needs and desire for connection that I dismiss my instincts? Or is it because I just want to have hope? That everyone is doing the best that they can? That people are good. Even though it’s hard to see sometimes... 

 

hmmm

[DevilsDoLL]

Hey... I'm sorry.. I'm just not good at this.. I'm really anxious.. But I would like to share here!

I've been severely taken advantage of and I have just about lost all faiths humanity... I'm uneasy an unsure of everything... it's all new.. I haven't even gone for a drink or movie without my husband in 20 years we even worked side by side... recently
I was even ***ed in a cab on the way home from the dr ... As ADULTS ( uhhh 😬) we realized our sexual approach and appetites vary in extreme degree.. but we can cum together on common turf if you will . Shower 🚿 together save water 💦!!
NE way....it is very difficult and Different I am recovering from a traumatic brain *** on top of coming out as Bisexual- Bicurious .. slang isn’t even the same.. it’s very easy to get confused when your physical ability to communicate or emote is shaky and being repaired.. mechanical issues 🤣🤪... tech department been busy with the 🧠, but
Situational issues are different even communication is different.. what the hell is Netflix and chill... I was told that was a busted pick up line...ok so if that’s hard .......

[Deleted Member]

Intuitive gut feelings should be listened to. We often have them and sometimes ignore them. Then the trouble ensues. 

Nice read mate!

[Deleted Member]

On 8/29/2020 at 3:58 PM, Thebian said:

Although I have passed the stage where this surprises me. I would go as far as to say that that was no Dominant.

He may call himself one certainly. Yes, he certainly communicated clearly based on the description. 

@Thebian I have most certainly been naive I do know that. But I also agree with what you say above . I fact have said to one that he wasn’t a true dominant ...  and boy did he get 🤔 angry not the right word maybe a little irate ?  And then at the time I felt bad. Which of course was his intention . Then I realised if he was a real dominant he would not have reacted in such a manner. 

 

 

[Deleted Member]

On 8/30/2020 at 6:39 AM, Curvykate said:

Thank you, Donny 🤗 At present, I don’t feel I am contributing much. NRE takes my attention. It was Eyem who referred to ideology first - but what I mean is “rules” about how I should respond, that I “must” respond and what reasons I’m allowed to have for saying no.

Curvykate, I always take notice when you write something because you contribute a lot.  Be it wisdom, experience or perspective.  Often what you write is dead on and gets thru to people.  

[dorion]

On 12/5/2020 at 11:29 PM, Messedup79 said:

Is it because of my own needs and desire for connection that I dismiss my instincts? Or is it because I just want to have hope? That everyone is doing the best that they can? That people are good. Even though it’s hard to see sometimes...

I think that people are good - and we are also bad. All of us.

I often sense in these discussions a desire to divide the world into good people and bad people. Of course dishonest people exist: I suspect we have all been bombarded with their contacts.

But I don't like that division. Often people aren't simply bad. I suspect more common are people who lie to themselves. That could be any of us. If we can disregard our instincts on one side, we can do it on the other also. I suspect most of us have had instances in our youth when we didn't do or say the right thing. In the heat of the moment we may have had an instinct that what we were saying wasn't forthright. Indeed, we may not even have known yet (do I like her, or am I just hot for her?).

I think you ask the right question, Messedup79. I suspect that if we are truly honest with ourselves, each of us will find that we have been on both ends of the ambiguous boundary between being uncertain and being misleading.

My experience is that internal honesty can be a powerful defense, even when I have been naive. One of the chief techniques of predators is to leverage our flaws against us. If we have hidden shame, they use it. If we can face our imperfections openly, we are much less *** - even when we are naive, even when we do not see the game they are playing.

That same honesty will also reduce the chance that we may lie to ourselves enough that we end up taking advantage of someone else. And it makes it easier to cope with the bad things people do without succumbing to the nihilism that most people are just bad.

Edited February 11, 2021 by dorion
remove repeated phrase

[Deleted Member]

8 hours ago, Mirixo said:

Curvykate, I always take notice when you write something because you contribute a lot.  Be it wisdom, experience or perspective.  Often what you write is dead on and gets thru to people.  

That is such a lovely thing to say. I am honoured. ☺️ Thank you so much.

[Deleted Member]

On 2/11/2021 at 10:04 AM, Curvykate said:

That is such a lovely thing to say. I am honoured. ☺️ Thank you so much.

I second that, you have taught me much , especially when confrontational 😁

Edited February 12, 2021 by Deleted Member

[Deleted Member]

1 hour ago, Primal*** said:

I second that, you have taught me much , especially when confrontational 😁

😊 You’re making this heartbroken woman feel better. Thank you Donny 😙