Equality in kink

[Deleted Member]

I recently witnessed and challenged what I felt was racist behaviour in the lobby. 

I acted immediately and challenged the person respectfully in chat. 

I subsequently received a PM justifying their behaviour, which I found lacking understanding and defensive. 

I'm writing this post to raise awareness and ensure that as a community we're committed to equality,  challenging prejudice and ensuring that this is an inclusive space for all. 

If anyone unsure about how to challenge those displaying inappropriate or discriminatory language or attitudes this may be an opportunity to consolidate how to broach this. 

Thank you for reading and I hope we can commit to making this a safe place for all people

 

🔥🧙‍♀️🔥

Edited November 22, 2020 by Deleted Member
Extra words

[Deleted Member]

I was lurking in chat when this happened and felt uncomfortable but I was unsure what to say so didn’t say anything. I’m hoping people comment and give advice on how to tackle any discrimination.

[Wo****]

Call it out. Every time x

[Wo****]

And report it.

[Deleted Member]

I wasn't aware of this happening but would hopefully it's just an isolated incident. The lobby is a wonderful and welcoming place for all in my experience to date.

[SammyB]

Sadly it happens often and sometimes because someone is seen as popular or a regular it can often go unchallenged

It can often appear if the person seems knowledgeable or have experienced they also can go unchallenged

I have called people our in a respectful manner in the lobby
I agree with bounty call them out and report

As ever Fire thanks for highlighting and bringing it into the wider community to be discussed

[Gi****]

As difficult as it is, it is important for every one of us to challenge language or behaviour that is in any way racist or discriminatory.

It is uncomfortable but necessary. On a good day though, speaking up carefully can lead to improved understanding where often cultural ignorance, lack of education or experience around these issues is the root of the inappropriate words or opinions.

It is hard and we/those of the majorities need to stand in that difficulty and take it. 

[VoyagerX]

15 hours ago, delicia said:

As difficult as it is, it is important for every one of us to challenge language or behaviour that is in any way racist or discriminatory.

It is uncomfortable but necessary. On a good day though, speaking up carefully can lead to improved understanding where often cultural ignorance, lack of education or experience around these issues is the root of the inappropriate words or opinions.

It is hard and we/those of the majorities need to stand in that difficulty and take it. 

I couldn't agree more.

I recently supported my daughter on a black lives matter march. 

There were many speakers but the one I found most compelling described how women have historically been  castigated as inferior to men.... and if you're black or atleast non caucasian..even more so.

I don't know who this racism was directed at in the forum.... whether male or female.... but I think it's worth remembering that black/ethnic 'minorities' represent the vast majority of the world's population.

And at 51% women outnumber men.

It therefore follows that the fundamental success of families and civilization itself ....including all us white dudes.. has been born on the shoulders of black/ethnic women in particular.

So instead of colour or sex being the object of prejudice.... Perhaps it should be celebrated and appreciated instead?

 

 

 

 

 

[Deleted Member]

Bullying, for that's what these acts of unacceptable behaviour are, is rife throughout society and both across, and within nations around the World. Look at the news. You'll see factions of all kinds of persuasions thinking that they're right and that only their opinion matters. There's at least two Presidents doing so, right now; Trump and Lukashenko. To see the tactics used in order to "get your way", is morally wrong. For one human being to think that they can just do as they please, without considering anyone else's feelings or thoughts or persuasions, shows a total lack of respect, compassion and understanding of other's points of view. Instead of finding out about how that person might feel, as a result of being intimidated, the perpetrator steam rollers their opinion over anyone who gets in their way.
There's an English language children's rhyme, which says, "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words shall never hurt me." The rhyme is used as a defense against name-calling and verbal bullying, intended to increase resiliency, avoid physical retaliation and to remain calm .
Yes, people who are displaying bullying behaviour should be held to account. However, a bully likes to try and find weaknesses and p!ays on them, even though they themselves are quite probably weak, and would be the first to complain if they were treated in such a manner.
A great deal of publicity has been given to BLM, but the cause is not unique. In the UK, we have a North/South divide. There are even East/West ones too. An older relative of mine, who was a Yorkshire man, used to take great pleasure in telling anyone he knew, who lived in Lancashire, that the only good thing to come out of Lancashire, was the road into Yorkshire. His other saying was (and it's true) that, "There's now't so queer as folk, except me and thee...and thars a bit queer, sometimes." Translated , there's nothing so unusual as people, except me and you...and you're s bit unusual, sometimes. Again, he put himself up as being perfect.

[VoyagerX]

37 minutes ago, Leatherfox2010 said:

Bullying, for that's what these acts of unacceptable behaviour are, is rife throughout society and both across, and within nations around the World. Look at the news. You'll see factions of all kinds of persuasions thinking that they're right and that only their opinion matters. There's at least two Presidents doing so, right now; Trump and Lukashenko. To see the tactics used in order to "get your way", is morally wrong. For one human being to think that they can just do as they please, without considering anyone else's feelings or thoughts or persuasions, shows a total lack of respect, compassion and understanding of other's points of view. Instead of finding out about how that person might feel, as a result of being intimidated, the perpetrator steam rollers their opinion over anyone who gets in their way.
There's an English language children's rhyme, which says, "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words shall never hurt me." The rhyme is used as a defense against name-calling and verbal bullying, intended to increase resiliency, avoid physical retaliation and to remain calm .
Yes, people who are displaying bullying behaviour should be held to account. However, a bully likes to try and find weaknesses and p!ays on them, even though they themselves are quite probably weak, and would be the first to complain if they were treated in such a manner.
A great deal of publicity has been given to BLM, but the cause is not unique. In the UK, we have a North/South divide. There are even East/West ones too. An older relative of mine, who was a Yorkshire man, used to take great pleasure in telling anyone he knew, who lived in Lancashire, that the only good thing to come out of Lancashire, was the road into Yorkshire. His other saying was (and it's true) that, "There's now't so queer as folk, except me and thee...and thars a bit queer, sometimes." Translated , there's nothing so unusual as people, except me and you...and you're s bit unusual, sometimes. Again, he put himself up as being perfect.

I do see it though as your relative speaking with his tongue in his cheek.

Like..... The whole world's mad except for me and you! And you're a bit mad as well!

Meaning that he accepts his strangeness too with a sense of humour?

I obviously don't know what sort of man he was. I suppose it depends whether it was seriously judgemental... or just a philosophically pragmatic recognition of how strange we all are 🤷

[Deleted Member]

7 hours ago, sweet***sub said:

I was lurking in chat when this happened and felt uncomfortable but I was unsure what to say so didn’t say anything. I’m hoping people comment and give advice on how to tackle any discrimination.

I think part of it is supporting the person you've seen be discriminated against and the other part is the confidence to say to the perpetrator that you find their words unacceptable.  It is tricky but when we are committed to actively seeking to challenge behaviors and attitudes we have to speak out.  I'm sure for all of us this extends beyond the Internet into real life as well and internationally there's a push for a different approach. 

🔥🔥🔥

[Deleted Member]

7 hours ago, SeanS said:

I wasn't aware of this happening but would hopefully it's just an isolated incident. The lobby is a wonderful and welcoming place for all in my experience to date.

Welcome to Fetish Sean,  like any shared space the lobby comes with many strengths and challenges.  Skimming through the forum you'll see a history of bullying and cliques which means many people avoid it.  Awareness, for me is part of how we combat prejudice and discrimination.  I'm pleased you're enjoying and I hope raising your awareness will enable you to be part of a community that supports inclusivity and diversity in kink.   Ignorance is not always bliss!!

🔥🔥🔥

[Deleted Member]

6 hours ago, SammyB said:

Sadly it happens often and sometimes because someone is seen as popular or a regular it can often go unchallenged

It can often appear if the person seems knowledgeable or have experienced they also can go unchallenged

I have called people our in a respectful manner in the lobby
I agree with bounty call them out and report

As ever Fire thanks for highlighting and bringing it into the wider community to be discussed

Thank you Sammy, I've seen your challenges and it gives others confidence to speak out when something isn't right.  

 I think sometimes the more intelligent,  insightful and observant members may be cautious and doubt their view over the steam roller of the blinkered arrogance of prejudice that can be displayed.  Especially when displayed by those with a "position" in the lobby. 

I was respectful in my challenge and I think sometimes finding the right words can be tricky,  but I think better to give it a go then let the moment pass. 

If in doubt,  screen shot and report it as you and @Bounty say, thank you. 

🔥🔥🔥

[Deleted Member]

6 hours ago, delicia said:

As difficult as it is, it is important for every one of us to challenge language or behaviour that is in any way racist or discriminatory.

It is uncomfortable but necessary. On a good day though, speaking up carefully can lead to improved understanding where often cultural ignorance, lack of education or experience around these issues is the root of the inappropriate words or opinions.

It is hard and we/those of the majorities need to stand in that difficulty and take it. 

Thank you Del,

This is why I wanted to write a post to express that I am not a lone voice and challenging words/ behaviors/ attitudes is the right thing to do. 

To help explain why BLM and entitled attitudes which are rooted in white privilege are part of the problem.  

Excusing behaviors and defending discriminatory attitudes is not learning and this is part of the wider problem which I seek to voice and highlight. 

🔥🔥🔥

[Deleted Member]

5 hours ago, VoyagerX said:

I couldn't agree more.

I recently supported my daughter on a black lives matter march. 

There were many speakers but the one I found most compelling described how women have historically been  castigated as inferior to men.... and if you're black or atleast non caucasian..even more so.

I don't know who this racism was directed at in the forum.... whether male or female.... but I think it's worth remembering that black/ethnic 'minorities' represent the vast majority of the world's population.

And at 51% women outnumber men.

It therefore follows that the fundamental success of families and civilization itself ....including all us white dudes.. has been born on the shoulders of black/ethnic women in particular.

So instead of colour or sex being the object of prejudice.... Perhaps it should be celebrated and appreciated instead?

 

 

 

 

 

This instance was a subversive use of language, an attempt to undermine a person of colour.  I think we all know about overt racism, but this appeared from a place whereby the person felt themselves fully justified in their actions.  I could not do nothing....

🔥🔥🔥

[Deleted Member]

4 hours ago, Leatherfox2010 said:

Bullying, for that's what these acts of unacceptable behaviour are, is rife throughout society and both across, and within nations around the World. Look at the news. You'll see factions of all kinds of persuasions thinking that they're right and that only their opinion matters. There's at least two Presidents doing so, right now; Trump and Lukashenko. To see the tactics used in order to "get your way", is morally wrong. For one human being to think that they can just do as they please, without considering anyone else's feelings or thoughts or persuasions, shows a total lack of respect, compassion and understanding of other's points of view. Instead of finding out about how that person might feel, as a result of being intimidated, the perpetrator steam rollers their opinion over anyone who gets in their way.
There's an English language children's rhyme, which says, "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words shall never hurt me." The rhyme is used as a defense against name-calling and verbal bullying, intended to increase resiliency, avoid physical retaliation and to remain calm .
Yes, people who are displaying bullying behaviour should be held to account. However, a bully likes to try and find weaknesses and p!ays on them, even though they themselves are quite probably weak, and would be the first to complain if they were treated in such a manner.
A great deal of publicity has been given to BLM, but the cause is not unique. In the UK, we have a North/South divide. There are even East/West ones too. An older relative of mine, who was a Yorkshire man, used to take great pleasure in telling anyone he knew, who lived in Lancashire, that the only good thing to come out of Lancashire, was the road into Yorkshire. His other saying was (and it's true) that, "There's now't so queer as folk, except me and thee...and thars a bit queer, sometimes." Translated , there's nothing so unusual as people, except me and you...and you're s bit unusual, sometimes. Again, he put himself up as being perfect.

Yes!!! You've covered so much in this post.... bullying,  superiority complex (undoubtedly rooted in personal insecurity and guised in "pride" or "shared identity" with other insecure ignorants) and a way of belittling others to justify yourself.  After this incident I was accused of censoring... however,  this is quite the opposite as exposure and education of the topic (not the person) can be the only way forward!

Thank you

🔥🔥🔥

[Deleted Member]

3 hours ago, VoyagerX said:

I do see it though as your relative speaking with his tongue in his cheek.

Like..... The whole world's mad except for me and you! And you're a bit mad as well!

Meaning that he accepts his strangeness too with a sense of humour?

I obviously don't know what sort of man he was. I suppose it depends whether it was seriously judgemental... or just a philosophically pragmatic recognition of how strange we all are 🤷

I would like to think the latter but I feel many prejudiced attitudes are hidden in humour,  to make them more palatable.  We have to be careful not to undermine the OP  and purpose, which is to support and create insights into how to challenge discrimination in kink. 

🔥🔥🔥

[SammyB]

4 hours ago, Firewitch said:

Thank you Sammy, I've seen your challenges and it gives others confidence to speak out when something isn't right.  

 I think sometimes the more intelligent,  insightful and observant members may be cautious and doubt their view over the steam roller of the blinkered arrogance of prejudice that can be displayed.  Especially when displayed by those with a "position" in the lobby. 

I was respectful in my challenge and I think sometimes finding the right words can be tricky,  but I think better to give it a go then let the moment pass. 

If in doubt,  screen shot and report it as you and @Bounty say, thank you. 

🔥🔥🔥

FireI have no doubt you were respectful 

The politics within any chat room like here is always tricky to navigate and of course you are right about those who perceive to hold a certain position 

Mostly those that hold a certain position within the lobby , generally understand that their opinion can influence some of newer members or those new to the lifestyle 

However there are a few that use it as a platform to feed their egos and self worth and care little for those who are new who may be trying to find their feet and are unaware of the socially acceptable behaviours within the lobby 

Sadly I will say that for a community that professes to be inclusive and non judgemental as you said in your first post , it can be negative and discriminatory and I will say it has impacted how I engage in the lobby 

When I joined originally almost 3 yrs ago it used to be a space for great chat ,good topics , a space that was safe to ask questions . Now it’s totally different 

Sx 

 

[VoyagerX]

5 hours ago, Firewitch said:

This instance was a subversive use of language, an attempt to undermine a person of colour.  I think we all know about overt racism, but this appeared from a place whereby the person felt themselves fully justified in their actions.  I could not do nothing....

🔥🔥🔥

Good for you for speaking up Firewitch.

Having convictions is one thing but having the courage to follow them through is another.

Sometimes I think you have to ruffle a few feathers and I admire you for that.

[Deleted Member]

Racism is not acceptable and should be reported straight away to the mod. Like anytime someone feel uncomfortable about someone comment and can’t say anything just reach for the mod who would assess the post and boot out the undesirable. Now I understand there is race kink but should never be talk into a general chat group.
The issue these days might be some people spending too much time at home with a drinking habit getting out of hand might impaired their ability to think before they are texting. But still, I remember a saying, alcohol usually help you saying things you thought deep inside you.
Maybe politics and sensitive subject should be left out of the chat forum....

[Carnelian2]

8 hours ago, Firewitch said:

 I think sometimes the more intelligent,  insightful and observant members may be cautious and doubt their view over the steam roller of the blinkered arrogance of prejudice that can be displayed. 

🔥🔥🔥

This kind of struck a note with me. One main reason for not participating in the forums is that I find it difficult to get a word in amongst all those with louder voices. It is a shame when those voices also then advocate racist or otherwise intolerant views. As others have said, the best thing is to call it out.
That can be difficult, though, if you are one of those that are usually quiet.