What is it with you girls and messed up in the head men/doms?

[Deleted Member]

Curvykate, to be fair I didn't understand it when I learned about Domestic *** either. I had an actual teacher to answer my questions, who was a retired cop, its probably harder to understand learning through the web(from a novice) which is why I suggested earlier education. We had a whole semester talking about domestic ***, they even brought in a guest speaker and everything. I don't think DaddioDom's intentions are bad. Sometimes people just don't know how to walk in other peoples shoes. 

 

It is good that he brought up this topic, and honestly that things have been explained in more detail because it can help educate others as well who happen upon this thread, just a little anyways. I'd recommend getting a degree in criminal justice for the full course lol.

[Deleted Member]

12 hours ago, DaddioDom said:

Thank you so much for your post that was a lot of great information and truth and I have nothing to disagree with that. See? This is how you debate and contribute to a post like this. 

Then maybe you should have worded your original post like that then eh, done a little research , made it clearer with a little empathy added to your op. Its not your message that was the issue but how you worded it, yet I still think you fail to see that. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by Deleted Member
Spelling

[Deleted Member]

18 minutes ago, Primal*** said:

Then maybe you should have worded your original post like that then eh, done a little research , made it clearer with a little empathy added to your op. Its not your message that was the issue but how you worded it, yet I still think you fail to see that. 

And that last line "see, this is how you debate and contribute to a post lile this" knowing full well you have upset another speaks volumes about the "man" you really are

[Deleted Member]

13 hours ago, Amberz said:

Curvykate, to be fair I didn't understand it when I learned about Domestic *** either. I had an actual teacher to answer my questions, who was a retired cop, its probably harder to understand learning through the web(from a novice) which is why I suggested earlier education. We had a whole semester talking about domestic ***, they even brought in a guest speaker and everything. I don't think DaddioDom's intentions are bad. Sometimes people just don't know how to walk in other peoples shoes. 

 

It is good that he brought up this topic, and honestly that things have been explained in more detail because it can help educate others as well who happen upon this thread, just a little anyways. I'd recommend getting a degree in criminal justice for the full course lol.

I think you’ve responded in a graceful way each time. But I don’t see that the OP has really listened to what you and others have written as he is still saying some of the same inaccurate and harmful things. So I have doubts about intentions. I haven’t done a degree, I don’t claim to know the subject backwards. But I’ve read enough and heard from enough women to know what a complicated subject this is. Hopefully people will read replies like yours which do shed light.

[Deleted Member]

And for the record I've just had a neb at your profile. It amused me and I quote "I'm a powerful Dom" yet you have sent almost double the amount of messages you have received. A bit of a contradiction.

 

The picture becomes a little clearer, maybe you would be better suited crying gently into your wank sock while bleating "poor me, no girls for me, they all go to those nasty men" 

 

As your so keen on rants that's mine 

Edited February 6, 2021 by Deleted Member

[ey****]

I'm finding this is circular - but - here's the kinda problem

"you attract exactly what you get"

That is victim blaming.  It implies it was the persons fault they were ***d, or attracted someone that seemed genuine that wasn't.   This kinda shit has no place in the wider world, let alone in the fetish scene

 

[Ar****]

17 hours ago, DaddioDom said:

This isn’t about men and women. BOTH experience trauma and deal with PTSD among other mental issues.

There is so so much I could add, but it would fall on deaf ears and I've better things to do with my time.

 

But Christ on a bike do you even realise how many times you have now said you didn't mean for this to be just about women or have "changed" it to encompass all when even your thread title is confrontational - people who carry and show respect do not go around asking questions to "you women" like they are a different or lower species.

 

And I'm sure this is where you deny that is what you meant to imply, even suggest it is I who have inferred something in your attitude which isn't there, yet your stoic unapologeticism even when you (claim to) acknowledge you didn't mean something a certain way speak volumes about your insincerity.

 

If if it been another male suggesting you to read the room and that you were mansplaining, how would you have responded? Also, read the room - you were mansplaining.

Edited February 6, 2021 by Aranhis

[Wo****]

Is the OP not just trying to understand why some of us kept/keep going back to or seeking out the same type of abusive men. Some of us do, or have, myself included.

 

I got trapped in a cycle of believing I was worthless, getting involved with bad people, didn't think I deserved better. I attracted that type of person because of who I'd become. It's only when I broke the destructive cycle that the people I attracted changed. Maybe that's what the OP meant. There's a saying... "You are the people you meet and the books you read"

 

If all you know is *** and ***, nothing changes until you change it.

[Deleted Member]

2 minutes ago, Bounty said:

Is the OP not just trying to understand why some of us kept/keep going back to or seeking out the same type of abusive men. Some of us do, or have, myself included.

 

I got trapped in a cycle of believing I was worthless, getting involved with bad people, didn't think I deserved better. I attracted that type of person because of who I'd become. It's only when I broke the destructive cycle that the people I attracted changed. Maybe that's what the OP meant. There's a saying... "You are the people you meet and the books you read"

 

If all you know is *** and ***, nothing changes until you change it.

❤😊

[Deleted Member]

26 minutes ago, Bounty said:

Is the OP not just trying to understand why some of us kept/keep going back to or seeking out the same type of abusive men. Some of us do, or have, myself included.

 

I got trapped in a cycle of believing I was worthless, getting involved with bad people, didn't think I deserved better. I attracted that type of person because of who I'd become. It's only when I broke the destructive cycle that the people I attracted changed. Maybe that's what the OP meant. There's a saying... "You are the people you meet and the books you read"

 

If all you know is *** and ***, nothing changes until you change it.

Is it not the responsibility of the OP to explain what he means? I don’t understand why so many people have stepped in to explain what he’s talking about and essentially defend what at times are some very poorly worded and thoughtless posts. He’s upset more than one person. Does that carry no weight?

[Wo****]

@Curvykate I'm not defending him. I'm trying to understand him, fully. Until I'm sure I understand what he means I can't judge if I disagree with him.

I've got a shed load of thoughts on this, and like you, it's close to my heart. This is a great thread highlighting a very emotional issue. A lot of different people could take a lot from some of the posts.

 

 

I know he's upset a lot of people, and yes it matters which is why I wanna make sure I understand exactly what he means.

Edited February 6, 2021 by Bounty
Added to

[Deleted Member]

1 hour ago, Bounty said:

. This is a great thread highlighting a very emotional issue. A lot of different people could take a lot from some of the posts.

 

 

 

Completely agree, as tough as the subject is it's another I had never though deeply about, had never really been on my radar, both victim shaming and the darker psychological content. I think if anywhere threads are where ive realised more than anything how much i actually didnt know, rather than what i did 😊

[Deleted Member]

1 hour ago, Bounty said:

@Curvykate I'm not defending him. I'm trying to understand him, fully. Until I'm sure I understand what he means I can't judge if I disagree with him.

I've got a shed load of thoughts on this, and like you, it's close to my heart. This is a great thread highlighting a very emotional issue. A lot of different people could take a lot from some of the posts.

 

 

I know he's upset a lot of people, and yes it matters which is why I wanna make sure I understand exactly what he means.

He’s posted 22 times by my count over several days. I think he’s had ample opportunity to clarify his views. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[Deleted Member]

I’ve read through this with interest and think a lot of good points have been made. However, the debate could have been so much more useful and enlightening if other people and their opinions hadn’t been constantly bludgeoned and mansplained by the OP. 
 

What it would be good to see happening now would be for someone with empathy, understanding and LIVED EXPERIENCE to start another thread on the same topic, so we can discuss things more amicably and with less ego.  
 

@Curvykate 👏👏👏👏👏

[Phoenyx]

Put simply, PTSD is an open wound that has never healed.  I know from personal experience.  No, my trauma was not relationship-based, nor in any way connected to BDSM.  It came from having to survive on my own, in an incredibly prejudiced society.  I am not trying to be political.  I am just saying that I know what it is like to carry that *** inside, to be forever ***ful of triggers, and to endure the long, hard road to healing.

On the subject of toxic Doms, I have noticed that a great many tend to be extremely superficial.  All of their supposedly "attractive" traits are broadcast outward, at high volume.  They are attention-getters.  They tend to drown-out all of the "genuine" guys around them.  This is why I see so many ladies attracted to them.  This is especially true in the BDSM community, where "danger" can seem erotic.  Such toxic Doms are the masters of bait-and-switch---with their lies, deceptions, and rationalizations.  They are the used-car salesmen of the interpersonal world.  As members of a consumer-driven society, we have been conditioned to go after bright and shiny packaging, even if the product within is total garbage.

[Deleted Member]

37 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

Put simply, PTSD is an open wound that has never healed.  I know from personal experience.  No, my trauma was not relationship-based, nor in any way connected to BDSM.  It came from having to survive on my own, in an incredibly prejudiced society.  I am not trying to be political.  I am just saying that I know what it is like to carry that *** inside, to be forever ***ful of triggers, and to endure the long, hard road to healing.

On the subject of toxic Doms, I have noticed that a great many tend to be extremely superficial.  All of their supposedly "attractive" traits are broadcast outward, at high volume.  They are attention-getters.  They tend to drown-out all of the "genuine" guys around them.  This is why I see so many ladies attracted to them.  This is especially true in the BDSM community, where "danger" can seem erotic.  Such toxic Doms are the masters of bait-and-switch---with their lies, deceptions, and rationalizations.  They are the used-car salesmen of the interpersonal world.  As members of a consumer-driven society, we have been conditioned to go after bright and shiny packaging, even if the product within is total garbage.

I’m sorry you’ve experienced this. I know from a friend only a little of the impact of PTSD/cPTSD. I also think you’re spot on with the toxic doms, at least the ones I’ve encountered.

[Deleted Member]

49 minutes ago, Lockfairy said:

I’ve read through this with interest and think a lot of good points have been made. However, the debate could have been so much more useful and enlightening if other people and their opinions hadn’t been constantly bludgeoned and mansplained by the OP. 
 

What it would be good to see happening now would be for someone with empathy, understanding and LIVED EXPERIENCE to start another thread on the same topic, so we can discuss things more amicably and with less ego.  
 

@Curvykate 👏👏👏👏👏

(My posts are often coming out blank, neither I nor anyone else has any idea why 🤷🏻‍♀️)

You’re very kind Lockfairy, but there have been times during this debate that I’ve felt unreasonable and emotion has affected my responses when perhaps it should not have. I have stepped away more than once and yet have still written too much, I feel. I’d be happy to start another thread, I had been giving it some thought as I feel people have more stories to tell and insights to share?

[Deleted Member]

36 minutes ago, Curvykate said:

(My posts are often coming out blank, neither I nor anyone else has any idea why 🤷🏻‍♀️)

You’re very kind Lockfairy, but there have been times during this debate that I’ve felt unreasonable and emotion has affected my responses when perhaps it should not have. I have stepped away more than once and yet have still written too much, I feel. I’d be happy to start another thread, I had been giving it some thought as I feel people have more stories to tell and insights to share?

It’s a very emotive subject, and it would take a skilled and detached debater indeed to be able to entirely remove their emotions from their responses.

I would welcome the chance to have a more nuanced discussion if you were happy to start it.

[Carnelian2]

1 hour ago, Curvykate said:

I have stepped away more than once and yet have still written too much, I feel. I’d be happy to start another thread, I had been giving it some thought as I feel people have more stories to tell and insights to share?

I would certainly welcome it. We cannot avoid the toxic types out there, but the more that can be done to educate on how to spot and react to red flags, the better. This applies regardless of Gender and D/s orientation, in fact.

[Deleted Member]

I will start a new thread tomorrow in the hope the issues can be discussed in a less combative way. Perhaps DaddioDom may see that as a positive step.

[Deleted Member]

On 2/6/2021 at 10:40 AM, Bounty said:

@Curvykate I'm not defending him. I'm trying to understand him, fully. Until I'm sure I understand what he means I can't judge if I disagree with him.

I've got a shed load of thoughts on this, and like you, it's close to my heart. This is a great thread highlighting a very emotional issue. A lot of different people could take a lot from some of the posts.

 

 

I know he's upset a lot of people, and yes it matters which is why I wanna make sure I understand exactly what he means.

You do understand exactly what I mean Bounty. And I did re-explain myself many times Curvy saying if its my "responsibility to explain myself", and you "dont know why people" are "defending" me or "explaining" for me, is because some still dont get it and are more focused on possibly crude words, if they are, or expressions I used rather then the actual reality of whats going on. I can admit or apologize for the way I worded things but I can not for my own opinion and experiences.

I realize maybe Im not the greatest at wording things, and the original posting, just by the way its worded, and certain parts of it, I see and understand now that it would have triggered people and would be difficult to see past to what I actually mean. For that I apologize.

 Also not everyone reads through the many long comments to get up to date on where the conversation is going and all the additions and reiterations.. so hence, all the several times I had to keep re-explaining what I actually meant, until i just give up.

This is not me trying to "mansplain" things. I am not giving you answers as to why this happens. I am sharing with you merely what I have seen in people over the years. And what I know about overcoming trauma through my own experiences, but I am no expert on the matter and cant explain why people are attracted to this, and thats the original question I posed.

You understand Bounty and not everyone will until they understand one of the universal principles which we all will experience in life, one of being the Law of Attraction. You dont attract what you 'want', but what you 'are' and its not always due to naivety as a first timer being charmed by a Dom. Very often its a relationship that fluctuates between breaking up and getting back together and with manipulation,  punishment, spite and selfishness and then some thrown into the mix.

I think it was Amy? that shared the several phases of a toxic relationship and all the rebounds people go through as a couple. Such as "the honeymoon phase"

On the point about "victim blaming" even with victims, as much as I sympathize, its comes to a point when one has to face their trauma  to come to terms with it, or always be haunted by it. And that takes sometimes accepting the reality, that they may be the ones who "choose" and consent" to it not just in the beginning, but when they go back to them... knowing very well how toxic, manipulative, selfish and narcissitic that person can be. Its like now theres no excuse when you know the full danger it brings going back to that person you already know full well and yet consent anyway. Not even just "going back" but when you have a long list of similar kind of partners...  Now yes, Im sorry to say and I know you dont like to hear it but, you are part of the cause of what happens. Sometimes its not you asking for it but you putting yourself in a place where you will be open to it.

Noone just slips into a toxic relationship by accident without any consent at all. At some point even a sub has to say yes. Actually a sub always has to say yes and consent. A dom is the chosen. You choose your bfs. Your partners. Your dommes. Your subs. You may get hurt once and thats one thing, but if it continues, then yes, you are going back. I dont want to repeat myself wit this. I understand its hard for some not to, but this is the part I had trouble wrapping my head around is, if you got burned once, why go back? Unless you like it. Its like moths attracted to a flame.

This is why I used the famous expression, again, "fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice, shame on me"

But heck, lets be honest, half of BDSM is experiencing *** and *** right? and why is that.... ? Some people can not get off until they are degraded, humiliated, used and ***d. Dont you think that goes deeper into someones subconcious, uprbringing and past experiences...? Not everyone is the same.

Its easier to understand why some physical *** is enjoyable by release of endorphins, but the attraction to toxicity and ***? It goes much deeper than that.

Some rather even prefer a person more selfish and narcisstic rather than someone overly sweet and overly caring. Some feel too smothered with too much attention they dont want. Why is that ?

That wasnt a sob story. That is pondering why isnt this a more logical process where I think youd be much more happy. Emotion isnt logical is all I know.

Theres people who defend their doms or bfs so blindly, that theyre so in love with, so loyally, that theyre willing to justifiy the very *** that is messing them up. 

Why is this not a more obvious enigma people arent attempting to decipher?

[Deleted Member]

I bring it up in the way I know how to express, i should have put more thought into more gentle words, so that so many wouldnt be so upset by the wording, even though im not the most gentle person, and rather prefer to just get straight to the point and not sugarcoat all in *** of hurting someones feelings to be honest but, yet its very hard for people to even talk about it. Whichever way you want to word it. Let alone accept.

Its one thing to share experiences. Its another to accept one has some part to do in 'choosing' to go back to people who cause them psychological harm, or 'choose' all their partners who fit that same kind of "personality type" if you will.

For those who said I switched tune or went back on my words, I didnt. You do not understand whats going on. There is a higher percentage of, yes, sorry to say, from what Ive seen, women attracted to toxic and manipulative men, eventough this can happen with just people in general. 

I did not go back on what I said. I added to it.

I have listened to what you have said and contributed. What I bring up here, are new questions, shedding light on things often brushed aside out of *** of talking about it, and certain points people arent willing to accept. Does not mean I didnt listen. Its one thing to listen another to disagree and another to have to reexplain, and that does not mean what I say goes or is absolute truth or that I think Im always right or Im trying to talk over people or however you want to put it.

This is a very compex issue, and is very broad. Theres too many specific unique cases, but I do notice some people are attracted to and prefer *** and toxic people. Some crave it. So, where do we draw the line?

Ive written too much already in hopes of clariying some things and posing the right questions we should be asking ourselves. How much am I accountable for? 

I read back and yes, I was frustrated at the time, not at my own results, but the fact that it seems, I dont want to say "dumb" but counterintuitive might be a better word or counterproductive to go for people so toxic then complain about the results. At the moment I was in a place in my mind, thinking "why bring all that upon yourself?" when you have the full power to choose better options for yourself. The friendzone example is to signal that many dont want nice and sweet, but mean, harsh and controlling? Many women have an innate desire to submit (and some mend), some even ***, I get it but dont you think that comes along with trauma? or maybe stemming from trauma? Why do you want to be ***d and enslaved and mistreated? Then the dom goes overboard and now theres damage.

The debate on what a dom "should be" is an all day debate. Now he should be part sensitve, part domineering, part not asking for permission, yet part waiting to ask permission for consent. Who takes charge but doesnt just take charge and jump into things. A person not afraid to say what he thinks, yet has to curb what he says for *** of hurting feelings. And all this came from people going overbaord. At least that part is what I think. Now a dom has to be very balanced. That he is barely a dom anymore but an actor given his power by the sub.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Deleted Member

[Deleted Member]

On 2/6/2021 at 4:00 AM, Primal*** said:

And that last line "see, this is how you debate and contribute to a post lile this" knowing full well you have upset another speaks volumes about the "man" you really are

I have upset who? In typing a positive message and supporting her positive input? Ive already apologized for the way I "word things" since I dont know how else to word them, but attacking my character constantly, and contributing nothing but these kinds of comments also speaks volumes about the "man" YOU really are.... dont be so pointy with those fingers white knight. Cause when you point a finger at someone, you have a few pointing right back at you.... Like I said I can apologize for wording things a certain way but wont for my opinion. If that offends you then so be it. This needs topic to be mentioned more importantly then your feelings or your constant need to point fingers in every comment.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Deleted Member

[Deleted Member]

On 2/6/2021 at 12:58 PM, Lockfairy said:

I’ve read through this with interest and think a lot of good points have been made. However, the debate could have been so much more useful and enlightening if other people and their opinions hadn’t been constantly bludgeoned and mansplained by the OP. 
 

What it would be good to see happening now would be for someone with empathy, understanding and LIVED EXPERIENCE to start another thread on the same topic, so we can discuss things more amicably and with less ego.  
 

@Curvykate 👏👏👏👏👏

I have not bludgeoned anyones opinions. Actually whos have I "bludgeoned" ??? As if Im erasing their comments or saying no their wrong for thinking what they did or said. Most of this time I have been trying to reiterate what I said. I havent attacked anyones character as I have endured on here. So i dont think that crude comment was fair.

Also sharing what Ive seen in my experiences and posing the questions I fail to see how is 'mansplaining'

If I say "no youre wrong, this is what it is because im a man and i am right!" sure, but I said nothing like that and  i think you completely read everything wrong if thats what you get. 




 

[Deleted Member]

Lol really its funny, I keep trying to go back to the topic at hand and back to the point but I see alot of the same commentors who are upset with my wording attacking how much of a "man" I am or lack of, or how I mansplain, I dont listen, Im a fake, or dont know how to be a Dom, etc. all these comments and what have you even contributed to the education of everyone else? Its just funny to me. Often times people are guilty of the same things they accuse others of..... even my "insincerity" lol all misinterpretations of what I actually said. I reexplain what I was getting at in a less coarse manner thats less offensive so people would get the idea and STILL, "no now youre mansplaining" No "youre changing your tune" Lol you guys are funny man. Not once have I attacked any of you for voicing what you think, if I did, probably cause of what you said first. Really difficult for you guys to stay on topic and if so... why do you keep coming back..... ?