***, trauma & toxicity

[Deleted Member]

1 hour ago, Pleasurecalculus said:

I think probably the greatest good comes from showing people how to recognize ***, because I certainly didn't in my first relationship.

That was certainly the thing that got me on track. 

[Deleted Member]

2 hours ago, Bounty said:

To this day I've not really talked about what happened. I've condensed it into one sentence "I was ***d vaginally and anally when I was a 17 year old virgin by my friends dad" ....

How do I even begin to  process that?

That the adrenalin, the ***, the ***, his desire, his need... it induced orgasms from me? That in some twisted way I thought I loved him. He wanted me so badly he took me... 

Bdsm helped me shed the guilt, I took back control. My then submission was my way of owning it, of never being ***d again.

 

During my , after my daughter was born, I went off the rails. I had post natal depression that was missed for years. I sank into hell. Drinking, smoking weed, sinking into an online world. I found chat rooms. Started chatting to a guy. A clever, witty, charming guy. Married. Lonely. He became a light in my life. I splurged my soul to him. He listened. Got in my head. Started controlling me. I can't begin to describe the depths of depravity he led me, willingly, to.

 

It became normal to me to mix online with people that I knew were toxic. There are several, scary stories there.

He was in my life for ten years, he destroyed my , all while yelling me he cared.

It was only reconnecting with my ex that I was finally able to see the truth of what this creature had done. 

 

My rapist.... I can empathise with him. Forgive him. He was a broken, ***d man who did everything he could to not do the one thing he really wanted to do. He wanted his daughter, told me he loved her, he killed himself a week later.... guilt? 

The snake.... I wish him all he deserves.

 

 

Now.... now I know, and believe in, my worth. I'm free of toxic or negative relationships... I'm sober and I've found my light.

🙏

 

I felt like it’s cathartic for you to write all that down knowing you’ve come through the other side. Jesus. So much trauma. 😔 But I know from all that you post that it’s a happy ending for you. 😍

[Pl****]

15 minutes ago, Curvykate said:

What you’ve talked about chimes so much with me. I’m sorry your first relationship was like this. Recognising *** in any guise can be tough so I guess it makes sense that sometimes we only see it from afar. I didn’t know until my 19 year relationship ended. Do you think it’s also about boundaries? Recognising our own and what are the things we expect of others to be happy. 

I think boundaries work well when they exist. The problem is that *** takes a lot of forms that we don't necessarily foresee and we may not have hard boundaries set up. It's perfectly normal for us to set up boundaries in the bedroom, but not everybody thinks about setting up other kinds of boundaries, like emotional boundaries. One of the boundaries I hit in my relationship was with truth, which I never thought of as a boundary, but was was something so implicitly important to me that it ended up being one. I apologized for a lot of stuff I didn't understand, but I drew the line at apologizing for stuff I didn't say or do.

You could call that recognizing a boundary, but I don't think boundaries are always necessarily these innate concrete structures. I think most boundaries are more flexible than rigid, but we make them durable when we explicitly define them. If I go to a casino, I could set my limit at $100, or $500, or $5,000, and all are perfectly valid limits. The problem gambling addicts have is they either don't set limits or can't stick to them. If they set a $500 limit and stuck to it, they've limited their losses, but they go in without one or don't stick to it, and it's always "just a little more". 

So I love the idea of boundaries, but *** isn't always so clear-cut and I think they're an imperfect solution by themselves. I think it's also important to have a general sense of your well-being. Are you happy overall? Are you enthusiastic about seeing your partner? Are you getting positive things out of this relationship? I would have answered no to all of those questions. I was miserable and dreaded visiting her, but it's not like she hit me. It always felt like I was the one hurting her. I think people should always try to be aware of their state and what affects it, because boundaries can miss some things. 

[Carnelian2]

42 minutes ago, Pleasurecalculus said:

I think boundaries work well when they exist. The problem is that *** takes a lot of forms that we don't necessarily foresee and we may not have hard boundaries set up. It's perfectly normal for us to set up boundaries in the bedroom, but not everybody thinks about setting up other kinds of boundaries, like emotional boundaries. One of the boundaries I hit in my relationship was with truth, which I never thought of as a boundary, but was was something so implicitly important to me that it ended up being one. I apologized for a lot of stuff I didn't understand, but I drew the line at apologizing for stuff I didn't say or do.

I found that abusive language was an absolute boundary and I have walked out of two relationships because of it. Also, because I specifically said it up front.
I actually do not think boundaries should be pushed, but should be respected. If it comes up in conversation, then yes it can be pushed but by mutual agreement.
I was doing some rope-work with a lady and she specifically said that she did not wish her hands tied behind her back, so I didn't. It is about respect as well.

[Deleted Member]

3 hours ago, Pleasurecalculus said:

I think boundaries work well when they exist. The problem is that *** takes a lot of forms that we don't necessarily foresee and we may not have hard boundaries set up. It's perfectly normal for us to set up boundaries in the bedroom, but not everybody thinks about setting up other kinds of boundaries, like emotional boundaries. One of the boundaries I hit in my relationship was with truth, which I never thought of as a boundary, but was was something so implicitly important to me that it ended up being one. I apologized for a lot of stuff I didn't understand, but I drew the line at apologizing for stuff I didn't say or do.

You could call that recognizing a boundary, but I don't think boundaries are always necessarily these innate concrete structures. I think most boundaries are more flexible than rigid, but we make them durable when we explicitly define them. If I go to a casino, I could set my limit at $100, or $500, or $5,000, and all are perfectly valid limits. The problem gambling addicts have is they either don't set limits or can't stick to them. If they set a $500 limit and stuck to it, they've limited their losses, but they go in without one or don't stick to it, and it's always "just a little more". 

So I love the idea of boundaries, but *** isn't always so clear-cut and I think they're an imperfect solution by themselves. I think it's also important to have a general sense of your well-being. Are you happy overall? Are you enthusiastic about seeing your partner? Are you getting positive things out of this relationship? I would have answered no to all of those questions. I was miserable and dreaded visiting her, but it's not like she hit me. It always felt like I was the one hurting her. I think people should always try to be aware of their state and what affects it, because boundaries can miss some things. 

I was thinking of emotional boundaries as well as physical ones but I didn’t say so. I absolutely agree with the questions we ask ourselves about the relationship. And how we feel. How that person makes us feel. I think it’s really hard to be honest with yourself sometimes because with bdsm often someone can affect you intensely and that obscures their less than savoury motives. I had an alpha primal-type Dom target me as a newbie a few years ago. I was a rabbit in the headlights and it took me over a year to finally see him for what he was. I should have asked myself if he made me happy. Because he never once did.

[Deleted Member]

5 hours ago, Carnelian2 said:

I don't know but in a way if you end up in D/s as a response to earlier ***; be it as a Dominant or submissive, then that may be a better coping mechanism than, say alcohol or ***.
It still comes down avoiding the toxic types and me aware enough to spot the signs. I know that is difficult in the rush of an early relationship where everything is rosy.

I knew someone about a year or so back; she had suffered *** in her youth and responded by becoming Dominant but she knew exactly why. Yes, she still had her issues but is a lovely person.

It is a balancing act isn’t it? I was gaslighted for years and of course then encountered d-types doing the same. I do know people who offer informal therapy around rope/impact.

[Deleted Member]

5 hours ago, Lockfairy said:

My experiences of ***, though rarely extreme, have been numerous and have left me with an almost complete inability to trust.
 

I know my neurodiversity has played a large part in preventing me from being able to recognise and act to avoid what was obvious to others. Until the day a friend pointed me at a red flag list, I was incapable of recognising them for what they were. It was a bombshell.

 

After many years on my own, learning about myself and doing a lot of growing up, I walked smack bang into a relationship with a gaslighting alcoholic which tore me apart in 5 short weeks. That was two years ago and I look back on that wryly as the practical lesson I needed to rein*** the years of theory. It won’t happen again. 
 

All this has left me with a hair-trigger response to the slightest hint of *** and a very itchy ‘block’ finger. I am sure I have given short shrift to some who were completely undeserving of it, but if it keeps me safe, I figure it might be worth it. Not that I feel I have any choice. 

You sound as though you have processed what’s happened to you which is wonderful but also ***y sad that your trust has been eroded so many times. Necessary but 😔.

[Deleted Member]

15 hours ago, lil-monster said:

I suffered *** for years when I was with my ex from the age of 16 till I was 26 I was with him. He ***d me mentally, physically and emotionally. I was too scared to run as he cut me off from all my friends and family I was only allowed to go to work I wasn't allowed out any other time. I was beaten black and blue by him, ***d consistently, told I was ugly and fat and no other man would want me. I finally got the courage to leave when a woman got in contact with me and told me she was pregnant with his baby!!!! Even thou I had been ***d by him for years for me that was the straw that broke the camels back!!! I finally got the courage to call someone I did eventually get out but was of course for years mentally scarred. I still didn't go out anywhere I lost all my confidence couldn't even have mirrors anywhere cause I couldn't look at myself. I tried to take my own life not once but twice.

 

Eventually I got help I saw a counsellor, and yes even some years after I still got with guys that were horrible or abusive and that's including Dom's from here, but I think I was conditioned to only think that's the only type of guy for me!!! But eventually I got out of the cycle and have now met my Sir @Liam52 who is probably the best ever but hey I'm biased lol. I still and will always have triggers cause of what I went through, I doubt they'll ever go away but I know how to handle them and walk away from a conversation and or take myself out of a group if they ever get mentioned. I know I'm now a stronger person I'm not a victim I'm a survivor!!!!!! 

Thank you @Curvykate for bringing this topic away from the toxicity it was becoming in the other post 💚💚

 

Thank you for sharing xoxo I'm so glad you have found some peace

[Deleted Member]

23 hours ago, Curvykate said:

guess it raises the question for tops/doms/dommes - how you recognise that someone has trauma?

It’s hard to assume or presume someone has. Like to assume because I have sadist tendency I would be an ***r type. 
it’s best to communicate as much as possible, most of the time I could feel someone has a past by reading her profile and see her like and dislike, limits etc, her pictures, it’s like some sort of aura. But that’s come with experience rather than a magical trick. 

[Deleted Member]

1 hour ago, FabSeverus said:

It’s hard to assume or presume someone has. Like to assume because I have sadist tendency I would be an ***r type. 
it’s best to communicate as much as possible, most of the time I could feel someone has a past by reading her profile and see her like and dislike, limits etc, her pictures, it’s like some sort of aura. But that’s come with experience rather than a magical trick. 

Really? What in my profile would suggest I’ve had negative experiences or is it because my profile is quite closed off - speaks volumes perhaps? (Sorry if that sounds like I’m challenging you to do magic!)

[Deleted Member]

@Curvykate I did mentioned “most of the time” not 100% accurate... and I think in our previous pm I did told you I knew something about you ...

[Deleted Member]

[Deleted Member]

[Ar****]

*additional TW ****

 

My story, an abridged version... I don't know what I've learned that may help others, but I do believe that sharing and helping people recognise they aren't alone in what they are going/have been through can make a load feel less heavy.

 

My son's mother and I had our handfasting when he had just turned a year old. We planned to do "the legal bit" later, so from that point of view I suppose I had a lucky escape, but we always said we would view it as a regardless. Only she started an affair less than a month afterwards.

 

It wasn't the affair itself which pushed me over the edge. It was the constantly being assured that I had been told and now knew everything, only for a few days later to learn some new information about how deep the deceit ran; the repeated lies picked my world apart, I spiralled, found myself convinced that everybody would be better off without me, and tried to take my own life. Failed laughably, but thankfully, and in the aftermath found that when my son's mum's new relationship fell to bits she wanted to come back to me. She blamed mental health issues and insecurity for the whole debacle, and I naïvely chose to stand by her. I figured that if she had physical health issues I would, so why wouldn't I for MH reasons, even if they had caused an affair?

 

The *** started almost immediately. Never physical, it was always mental, emotional, controlling. Cutting me off from my friends, controlling finances, going through my phone and personal effects, verbal ***, guilt-tripping, gaslighting, disposing of physical connections to my past, invalidating me etc, you know the score.

 

That lasted about five years until we finally split up for good. I recognised, after a while, that what was happening was unacceptable, but what was I supposed to do? I had no ***, no place to go, and a young son I couldn't leave. At one stage my OT got me a referral to a DV refuge, but it was in St. Helen's. I spoke to them on the phone, they had a place for me and wanted to pull me out that same day. But I couldn't take it. It wasn't even about my job, my family, any friends I had left, or the *** of what she might do to my property in retaliation. I wouldn't have been embarrassed to go, that wasn't the issue. It was my son. How do you just up and leave your child, especially at 3 or 4 years old? You can't. So I declined, and I stayed in the ***, hoping things would change or somehow end.

 

Eventually a split came anyway; there were further issues - destruction and sale of my property, theft, harassment, my son being moved to another county and not having contact with me for a year - but I got set up in my own home, a sanctuary with nobody else here, and started rebuilding. I haven't entirely avoided toxic relationships since then, but I've learned how and when to get out. Mostly. I also learned that I am autistic, which explained a lot about my life to me. I received a diagnosis about 4 years ago having never previously suspected it; as I learn more about myself I understand how my disposition has made me easier to take advantage of than many others.

 

There is an unexpected epilogue to the story, which began late last year. I have been working with an award-winning photographer on her latest project, an ongoing piece about DV survivors and their stories. It's a two-year project, and then next year the portraits/stories will be going on display in exhibition. Probably touring. Possibly compiled into a book. And in all honesty, the thought of being so exposed, my face and story hanging on a gallery wall, scares the shit out of me. I almost didn't do the project. My anxiety kept kicking in, asking myself what the repercussions are going to be when my son's mum finds out about it.

 

But I couldn't not do it. As things stand I'm the first and only male in the project. If I don't step up and speak out, how can I expect anybody else to? And if seeing my story inspires just one single person (regardless of gender) to get out of a toxic/abusive relationship, or to bring them some strength while they endure it, then to me that is worth it.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Aranhis

[Deleted Member]

I posted a piece a few weeks ago which echoed that notion of minimising. ‘It’s not that bad and it’s not always bad’

I still feel a fraud when I label it as ***.

My story is too long to tell here and I often get tired of telling it.

One major lesson for me though, was thinking about how much I changed myself, how much I dissociated and disconnected just to create a sense of relief to ease the constant edginess. But all that did was make him believe he had this perfect life, and he would defend that at all costs. 

As for me, I was totally lost and disempowered and wasn’t sure that there was any point in emancipation. I believed I was too damaged. 

Sometimes I think I will never be free.

 

But one day at a time I’m working on me.

 

After being physically ***ed on my birthday,  and then goaded and raged at whilst i hurt myself, I looked for specialist counselling. Without my counsellor, I’m pretty certain I’d have forgiven him and kept on being complicit in my acceptance.

I needed to tell my story, and to see another persons reaction to it, to stop minimising and doubting myself.

I still have doubts and guilt and Shame. I still feel like I should not share too much to protect my ex from the stigma or Shame. But it’s a long road and I’m getting there.

 

sorry all a bit random and waffle 

[Carnelian2]

I am currently dealing with the fallout of my first long relationship which started when I was 17 and ended when I was 33. I have always been so busy running that it was not until early last year when I realised that events from my youth, and first relationship had caused trust issues. I am currently going through counselling to, I suppose, learn what I can from it. The one thing that both amazes me and frightens me is how long it has taken me to realise that something was wrong. We all learn, I suppose. Thankfully, I have had healthy relationships since then, which may have been what prompted me although, of course, if was an unhealthy relationship that was the trigger for me finally seeking counselling.
As others, I could write much more - but prefer to keep it short.

[Deleted Member]

Yesterday at 11:14 AM, Pleasurecalculus said:

I think probably the greatest good comes from showing people how to recognize ***, because I certainly didn't in my first relationship. In fact, it was probably six months past our break-up when I finally recognized that I had been in an abusive relationship. There were a bunch of reasons why I didn't:

1. I was the guy, so what did I have to worry about?
2. She had suffered tremendous ***, so I saw her as the victim.
3. She was in ***, which altered her personality and made her more sympathetic. 
4. She was taking *** that altered her personality (giving her paranoid psychosis)
5. I knew her before her traumatic experiences when she wasn't like this, and I had gone into this relationship still caring about her from before.
6. I was so focused on her that I didn't pay attention to what was happening to me. 
7. It was my first relationship, and everybody had always told me I would make a ton of mistakes in my first relationship, so I took the blame for a lot of things. Even when I'd talk to people about it, they'd assume everything was my fault because of my inexperience. 

I'd always thought it was crazy when women stayed with abusive guys, even when the *** got extreme, and after the fact, I felt quite pathetic for not leaving sooner. I made a lot of excuses, and they were all good excuses. I'm still friends with her to this day, and that's not who she really is, which I knew all along, but that doesn't change the fact that at that time we dated, she was abusive. When you're making excuses for someone's negative effects on you, even if they're good excuses, that should always be a sign something's wrong.

After months of having no understanding of why everything I said was so wrong, thinking I was going crazy, even wondering if I somehow had a vast misunderstanding of the same English language I'd been speaking my entire life, it took seeing how she treated other people to recognize that I wasn't the problem. And I was lucky to be able to see that, because not everyone has that luxury.

To me, it all starts with recognizing that *** doesn't have to be physical or illegal, that any number of reasons or excuses for *** doesn't change what it is. Relationships are hard, because we want them and we get invested, but they're supposed to make us happier, not the other way around. If they don't, not just temporarily but in general, it's time to get out.

When you talk about “even wondering if I somehow had a vast misunderstanding of the same English language I’d been speaking my entire life”

Wow, I’ve wondered that so many times. That’s how far into one’s head an abusive partner can get. Thank you for sharing your story xo

[Deleted Member]

7 hours ago, FabSeverus said:

@Curvykate I did mentioned “most of the time” not 100% accurate... and I think in our previous pm I did told you I knew something about you ...

That’s going back some months, can you pm and refresh my memory? 

[Deleted Member]

6 hours ago, Aranhis said:

*additional TW ****

 

My story, an abridged version... I don't know what I've learned that may help others, but I do believe that sharing and helping people recognise they aren't alone in what they are going/have been through can make a load feel less heavy.

 

My son's mother and I had our handfasting when he had just turned a year old. We planned to do "the legal bit" later, so from that point of view I suppose I had a lucky escape, but we always said we would view it as a regardless. Only she started an affair less than a month afterwards.

 

It wasn't the affair itself which pushed me over the edge. It was the constantly being assured that I had been told and now knew everything, only for a few days later to learn some new information about how deep the deceit ran; the repeated lies picked my world apart, I spiralled, found myself convinced that everybody would be better off without me, and tried to take my own life. Failed laughably, but thankfully, and in the aftermath found that when my son's mum's new relationship fell to bits she wanted to come back to me. She blamed mental health issues and insecurity for the whole debacle, and I naïvely chose to stand by her. I figured that if she had physical health issues I would, so why wouldn't I for MH reasons, even if they had caused an affair?

 

The *** started almost immediately. Never physical, it was always mental, emotional, controlling. Cutting me off from my friends, controlling finances, going through my phone and personal effects, verbal ***, guilt-tripping, gaslighting, disposing of physical connections to my past, invalidating me etc, you know the score.

 

That lasted about five years until we finally split up for good. I recognised, after a while, that what was happening was unacceptable, but what was I supposed to do? I had no ***, no place to go, and a young son I couldn't leave. At one stage my OT got me a referral to a DV refuge, but it was in St. Helen's. I spoke to them on the phone, they had a place for me and wanted to pull me out that same day. But I couldn't take it. It wasn't even about my job, my family, any friends I had left, or the *** of what she might do to my property in retaliation. I wouldn't have been embarrassed to go, that wasn't the issue. It was my son. How do you just up and leave your child, especially at 3 or 4 years old? You can't. So I declined, and I stayed in the ***, hoping things would change or somehow end.

 

Eventually a split came anyway; there were further issues - destruction and sale of my property, theft, harassment, my son being moved to another county and not having contact with me for a year - but I got set up in my own home, a sanctuary with nobody else here, and started rebuilding. I haven't entirely avoided toxic relationships since then, but I've learned how and when to get out. Mostly. I also learned that I am autistic, which explained a lot about my life to me. I received a diagnosis about 4 years ago having never previously suspected it; as I learn more about myself I understand how my disposition has made me easier to take advantage of than many others.

 

There is an unexpected epilogue to the story, which began late last year. I have been working with an award-winning photographer on her latest project, an ongoing piece about DV survivors and their stories. It's a two-year project, and then next year the portraits/stories will be going on display in exhibition. Probably touring. Possibly compiled into a book. And in all honesty, the thought of being so exposed, my face and story hanging on a gallery wall, scares the shit out of me. I almost didn't do the project. My anxiety kept kicking in, asking myself what the repercussions are going to be when my son's mum finds out about it.

 

But I couldn't not do it. As things stand I'm the first and only male in the project. If I don't step up and speak out, how can I expect anybody else to? And if seeing my story inspires just one single person (regardless of gender) to get out of a toxic/abusive relationship, or to bring them some strength while they endure it, then to me that is worth it.

I think you’ve been incredibly brave to get involved in that project. I imagine it must be more difficult as a male to talk of your trauma perhaps because of gender stereotypes. I’m glad you were able to open up on here - thank you. 

[Deleted Member]

5 hours ago, Messedup79 said:

I posted a piece a few weeks ago which echoed that notion of minimising. ‘It’s not that bad and it’s not always bad’

I still feel a fraud when I label it as ***.

My story is too long to tell here and I often get tired of telling it.

One major lesson for me though, was thinking about how much I changed myself, how much I dissociated and disconnected just to create a sense of relief to ease the constant edginess. But all that did was make him believe he had this perfect life, and he would defend that at all costs. 

As for me, I was totally lost and disempowered and wasn’t sure that there was any point in emancipation. I believed I was too damaged. 

Sometimes I think I will never be free.

 

But one day at a time I’m working on me.

 

After being physically ***ed on my birthday,  and then goaded and raged at whilst i hurt myself, I looked for specialist counselling. Without my counsellor, I’m pretty certain I’d have forgiven him and kept on being complicit in my acceptance.

I needed to tell my story, and to see another persons reaction to it, to stop minimising and doubting myself.

I still have doubts and guilt and Shame. I still feel like I should not share too much to protect my ex from the stigma or Shame. But it’s a long road and I’m getting there.

 

sorry all a bit random and waffle 

I could have written some of this myself. I feel so sad that you’ve had these feelings, that still saying “he ***d me” is so hard. It does feel like fraud, I know. And if you’re ok, functioning - does it feel more of a fraud? I haven’t read your story - do you think you could message the link to me as I feel we could perhaps talk more and help each other? 

[Desperate-5256]

Ok i hope no one is going to judge me because i love my wife more than myself.

In the past i was a man, and my wife made me a whore. A few months ago she started with trauma binding because she wanted me to be focussed on her needs only. It meant that when i did something wrong she kicked and whipped me throe the whole house till i was trembling in a corner. I know it is my own fault when she does that, i must simply concentrate to be good you know. I must focus on her needs than she is very sweet to me.

[Taramafor]

Honestly, I'd rather be talked down too and degraded. At least in that situation I know I can turn it around ASAP. Want to try and avoid situations? Well, there's a rock Go curl under it if you like. But life is hard and cruel and unfair. Deal with it. Or don't and be that fragile person. Up to you.

What's more difficult to counter is stonewall ***. Escapism is the path of destruction. It's one thing to focus on having a good time. It's another to be inconsiderate and not think ahead. It's the not thinking ahead part that leads to people getting hurt and not even knowing why.

People don't understand why I'd still be there for them even when they mistreat me. The situation is unfair, but not for the reasons they might think.

Beforehand it's misunderstandings up the wazoo. But I know the truth. I know what I prove when people let me. Just because you don't let me show it doesn't change the facts.

Afterwards things are fine. I'm happy. They're happy. Ends justify the means.

People will hate you for pushing for the truth when you go against their opinions. But in the end it's like a certain comic of a bragging clone wars pilot in Star Wars. No one liked him when he bragged about how good he is. Thing is he saved his captains life. To quote one of the other pilots "There's nothing wrong with it if you're RIGHT."

Things like straight answers and agreements just work. Communication IS the only way foward even if you're that whiner you complain about. I could go on. Point being if that's never been established it's probably because you was trying to avoid a situation. Instead of facing/confronting it directly.

Makes me wonder why people have a *** of conflict. What they REALLY *** is their own inability of dealing with it. That's not THEIR weakness (well, not unless the other person does have that *** at least). It's YOURS if all you want to do is flee or shut down communication.

Edited September 8, 2021 by Taramafor

[ey****]

7 hours ago, Taramafor said:

Makes me wonder why people have a *** of conflict. What they REALLY *** is their own inability of dealing with it. That's not THEIR weakness (well, not unless the other person does have that *** at least). It's YOURS if all you want to do is flee or shut down communication.

We're not really talking about conflict, disagreements, or communication issues.

We're talking *** and manipulation

Why people then have a *** is because they cannot see a way out of an abusive relationship.  Perhaps they don't actually realise it is abusive or realised too late.  There are so many different reasons why people end up in these situations and you know, not one of these is their fault.  The fault lies on those doing the abusing, manipulation, so on

[Deleted Member]

12 hours ago, Taramafor said:

Honestly, I'd rather be talked down too and degraded. At least in that situation I know I can turn it around ASAP. Want to try and avoid situations? Well, there's a rock Go curl under it if you like. But life is hard and cruel and unfair. Deal with it. Or don't and be that fragile person. Up to you.

What's more difficult to counter is stonewall ***. Escapism is the path of destruction. It's one thing to focus on having a good time. It's another to be inconsiderate and not think ahead. It's the not thinking ahead part that leads to people getting hurt and not even knowing why.

People don't understand why I'd still be there for them even when they mistreat me. The situation is unfair, but not for the reasons they might think.

Beforehand it's misunderstandings up the wazoo. But I know the truth. I know what I prove when people let me. Just because you don't let me show it doesn't change the facts.

Afterwards things are fine. I'm happy. They're happy. Ends justify the means.

People will hate you for pushing for the truth when you go against their opinions. But in the end it's like a certain comic of a bragging clone wars pilot in Star Wars. No one liked him when he bragged about how good he is. Thing is he saved his captains life. To quote one of the other pilots "There's nothing wrong with it if you're RIGHT."

Things like straight answers and agreements just work. Communication IS the only way foward even if you're that whiner you complain about. I could go on. Point being if that's never been established it's probably because you was trying to avoid a situation. Instead of facing/confronting it directly.

Makes me wonder why people have a *** of conflict. What they REALLY *** is their own inability of dealing with it. That's not THEIR weakness (well, not unless the other person does have that *** at least). It's YOURS if all you want to do is flee or shut down communication.

I don't know what your agenda is, or your experience. But starting off your comment on a thread about other people's trauma with "I'd rather be talked down too and degraded" then talking about fragile people in a negative way. That isn't helpful or supportive and your rambling comment makes little sense.

[Taramafor]

15 hours ago, eyemblacksheep said:

We're not really talking about conflict, disagreements, or communication issues.

We're talking *** and manipulation

Why people then have a *** is because they cannot see a way out of an abusive relationship.  Perhaps they don't actually realise it is abusive or realised too late.  There are so many different reasons why people end up in these situations and you know, not one of these is their fault.  The fault lies on those doing the abusing, manipulation, so on

It's actually better (and healthier) to mean and intend the harm you cause. Becuase then you know what you do. "Out of control" situations will be even more destructive.

Avoidence and evasiveness will only lead to depression and suffering. Which is why it must be done with intent. People can hate you for that. Assume the worst too easily. But they'll also love you for it. Once the full story is known.

The biggest danger is in the blind situations (half stories and not asking each other enough). Not even knowing why you hurt each other at all. You don't even have a choice then. You're not even aware of the situation you're in then.

And I am talking about people that *** conflict. You're "we" doesn't change that. People that are that afraid are the ones that will hurt you the most. While being lying filthy hypocrites and doing exactly what they complain about. People have that *** because they are what they hate, basically. Or otherwise have had some bad past expreince and project it onto others. Which is common.

Too common actually. I get people to contradict themselves. Corrections sorts things out. But a lot of people won't have that kind of ability. Can you get the most stubborn person on the face of the planet to claim responsability provided you get a word in even if they're destructive and toxic? I manage to do that. It's... nice actually. Those situations turning around ASAP right away. For the better. All that past toxicity just stops then.

Factor in agreements as well. What you both want. That makes things less toxic. Even if they didn't want to talk about what's fair at first (dismissing concerns/your thoughts/opinions. Toxic).

In reality it's a misunderstanding. And in the end it comes down to two kinds of people. Those that seek to understand, and those that fixate on only the negatives alone and not considering any other viewpoint then their own. You figure out which is more likely to lead to more conflict.

Think of it this way. What does Luke Skywalker do with Darth Vader? THAT is how you stop conflict. Regardless of wherever someone meant to hurt you or not. But if THEY'RE not aware then YOU need to be (Observation and consideration). Otherwise you're both ending up shit creek without a paddle. It's all in the checking in without violating choice. Whatever the sitaution is just try to understand it. And focus on straight answers. Add in a dose of agreements. It just works. If someone isn't giving straight answers then can they even handle the truth? That simple reminder can give them a wake up call.

Granted, having to adapt to different situations. But that's the basic foundation that will always lead to working things out. What someone THINKS is *** is often a misunderstanding. But someones *** of that could turn that illusion into a reality (only serving to fuel more destruction). If someone is being abusive then the question is if you ***d them without even realising it.

 

The worst *** of all? Not even be taken into consideration. As if your thoughts/opinions don't even matter. Can't know that. Can't change what isn't known. To not even be known or understood by those you care for. When that happens I honestly manipulate the situation to be more honest/fair without lies or secrets. Manipulation doesn't mean lies and secrets. That's actually not manditory for it. But because of the stigma associated with the word then people *** that.

And of course we have to factor in closed minded people as well. Who refuse to even listen to another viewpoint when there's a disagreement. Which is what fuels destruction and toxicity in the first place. eg: The closed mind. You pretty much have to be toxic right back at times. They can *** you to be in a sense. Not necessarily a bad thing provided you keep it controlled (comes back to manipulation).

Instead of manipulation, control might be a better way to phrase it. How can we control the situation we're in and improve on it? This is the situation. You tried it your way alone over and over. Without agreements or compromise. Which you chose. And I will remind someone of this. It is manipulation. But it's also pointing out "You chose this." The most important factor is that reminder of their own choice. It's on their head. Mine too when I make my choices.

I also point out "Here's an idea about how we can treat each other better and let's make it about responsability instead of blame". That is manipulation. I just cut out the lies and secerts and maintain honesty at any cost. To be clear, manipulation means "To control events". It doesn't translate to lying and keeping secrets. But people can get confused and assume the worst of things (in general). eg: Judgement.

 

Nothing has ever been more toxic then that judgement. And if that's done with the "I know best for you" attitude then that violates choice itself. Be wary of that.

Edited September 9, 2021 by Taramafor