The Hive Mind Fallacy

[phoenix_submaso]

Excellent post. As a submissive with years of exposure, I've seen this play out many times. It's possible I was a little guilty of it in the beginning, too.

The cliche trappings of domination aren't nearly as exciting for me as they once were, however. Also, having attempted domination once or twice (and having failed miserably at it), my eyes have been opened to just how much submissive expectations, (and even sub frenzy), can corral one into a very narrow band of self expression. Granted I may have felt that way because I'm not really dominant at all, but it helped me empathize with what Dommes potentially go through. It also made me very curious about everything that I miss when I don't give a Domme room to guide the relationship (or interaction) according to Her desires. Sometimes there's simply a disconnect. It's better to find that out immediately and, as you said, accept it and move on.

[ge****]

Hadn't seen this thread before but firstly bravo for the OP and agree with pretty much every word - the only thing I'd question, and even then I know where you were coming from @MzJax, is the "far too many approach with a "what will you do for me" rather than a "what can I do for you one"" comment - while I agree the "what will you do for me" approach is absolutely wrong, I'd suggest that perhaps the approach should be "what can we do for each other" - looking at how two people complement each other, rather than singularly.

Interestingly there was a very similar thread to this one called "Where Are All The Genuine Dommes" posted just last weekend by @weaslekit that posted and raised similar thoughts - so it's a recurring theme for sure.

I think the trouble is, as you point out in the OP, there are a lot of guys who find this lifestyle through porn (where we all know it's rarely reflected accurately), think they'll have some of that and don't truly reflect on what it is or what it means to them - they see the "naughty", "kinky" and "sexy" side of it, without appreciating the more intellectual and deeper side of things - they then come to sites like this and think finding what they want is as simple as signing up for the site and listing their desires/fantasies to get them fulfilled - which of course doesn't happen, so leads to them getting frustrated and rather than introspecting and reflecting a little, and making changes, they re-double their efforts with ever increasing expectations and so the downward spiral continues.

Perhaps if some of those guys took that step back and took the time to look inwardly rather than outwardly their experiences would be improved.

[ey****]

8 minutes ago, gemini_man said:

while I agree the "what will you do for me" approach is absolutely wrong, I'd suggest that perhaps the approach should be "what can we do for each other" - looking at how two people complement each other, rather than singularly.

in the kinda positions.  

Someone sending a message to someone already has an idea of how the other person meets what they are looking for.   Or at least an opening inkling.

So it's then at least up to them to showcase some reason why they at least are worth messaging back.

Let's go a little colder and look at say, jobs.  

I get emails from recruitment agencies all of the time which will often highlight the perks of the company "flexible working, career progression, pizza parties, generic bullshit" so on - usually trying to tempt with a headline salary 

I mean, I don't reply back as I'm not looking for work but some have been tempting. (and then some are in Middlesbrough. Ugh) 

Anyway, if the messages were just "come work for us, you have skills x, y and z" with no real idea of how this benefits me.   Well. I'd have to be desperate to take it. (have you ever taken a job through desperation? they're rarely very good) 

I guess if the boot was on the other foot "Here is my CV, I would love to come work for your company - these are the skills and experience I bring" works a lot better than "you owe me a chance, bitch" 

[ge****]

53 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

in the kinda positions.  

Someone sending a message to someone already has an idea of how the other person meets what they are looking for.   Or at least an opening inkling.

So it's then at least up to them to showcase some reason why they at least are worth messaging back.

Let's go a little colder and look at say, jobs.  

I get emails from recruitment agencies all of the time which will often highlight the perks of the company "flexible working, career progression, pizza parties, generic bullshit" so on - usually trying to tempt with a headline salary 

I mean, I don't reply back as I'm not looking for work but some have been tempting. (and then some are in Middlesbrough. Ugh) 

Anyway, if the messages were just "come work for us, you have skills x, y and z" with no real idea of how this benefits me.   Well. I'd have to be desperate to take it. (have you ever taken a job through desperation? they're rarely very good) 

I guess if the boot was on the other foot "Here is my CV, I would love to come work for your company - these are the skills and experience I bring" works a lot better than "you owe me a chance, bitch" 

It still comes back to the approach of "what can we do for each other" being preferable though - while I take your point that "showcasing" is required that can still be done from the angle I suggested rather than focusing on one or the other person.

Either way the point remains that coming at it from a selfish perspective is the wrong way.

[Phoenyx]

Quite true:  It's not about, "What can you do for me?", but rather, "What can we do for each other?"  Still, again, that comes back to finding a "significant other" whose kinks align.

I know that I have made this suggestion before.  Still, it bears repeating.  Why not write a fantasy story?  On this site, there is a forum for Stories and Confessions.  That forum seems terribly underused---which seems surprising, as kinky folks also tend to be quite creative.  Compose your fantasy into an interesting, erotic tale.  In turn, this could attract the attention of the partner that you desire.

There is, of course, the subject of "profiles".  So few seem to state their desires in their profiles.  Those that do, often come-across with very undiplomatic statements like, "I want..." or "I am looking for..."---followed by the usual laundry list.  A less-blunt approach might be, "I dream of..." or "I have always been turned-on by...".  This can also help to weed-out scammers, as scammers tend to not read profiles.  A legitimate message should mention your kink(s) by name.

[ey****]

I think a lot depends on the stage of any discussions.

Again using my job examples

Let's say that I am open for the right job.   Sometimes I can tell from the message that I'm not interested.  Be it salary too low.  A company I don't want to work for.  Or location not work out.

But, if there are a few bits which sound promising then I can go and either tell the agent that I am interested, or ask for more information, or do some of my own research into the company 

When we get to the interview stage - we can iron out what we can do for each other. That they're sure my skills are what I need. That I will fit the "culture" - while also I can look also and decide am I happy with what they can offer me, both now and going forward.  Or, like, one company I skirted away from : will I bit bored rigid?

But going this route the agent/company has to do enough here to tempt me to even want to apply.

Equally - if - I was to apply for a job.  My CV and covering letter should make it obvious what I can offer the company - I should have done my own research before applying - and, again, we can iron out what we can do for each other in the interview.

--

I wouldn't phone a company and go "hey, you need a person like me - what can you offer?" or "here are my wants from a role" without actually be willing to first back this up

Just as an agent going "you need a job, come work for this company" is going to be a bit... well the company sounds desperate and I'm not.

[ge****]

28 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

I think a lot depends on the stage of any discussions.

Again using my job examples

Let's say that I am open for the right job.   Sometimes I can tell from the message that I'm not interested.  Be it salary too low.  A company I don't want to work for.  Or location not work out.

But, if there are a few bits which sound promising then I can go and either tell the agent that I am interested, or ask for more information, or do some of my own research into the company 

When we get to the interview stage - we can iron out what we can do for each other. That they're sure my skills are what I need. That I will fit the "culture" - while also I can look also and decide am I happy with what they can offer me, both now and going forward.  Or, like, one company I skirted away from : will I bit bored rigid?

But going this route the agent/company has to do enough here to tempt me to even want to apply.

Equally - if - I was to apply for a job.  My CV and covering letter should make it obvious what I can offer the company - I should have done my own research before applying - and, again, we can iron out what we can do for each other in the interview.

--

I wouldn't phone a company and go "hey, you need a person like me - what can you offer?" or "here are my wants from a role" without actually be willing to first back this up

Just as an agent going "you need a job, come work for this company" is going to be a bit... well the company sounds desperate and I'm not.

I think we're getting into semantics here and actually saying similar things in different ways - of course in the initial stages there are elements of getting to know one another and establishing if there's a good fit - but to use your job analogy, just as initially it's about what the potential employer and employee can offer the other, underpinning all of that is what they can do for each other i.e. what the mutual benefits are

[ey****]

yep - I think it's definitely something where any relationship - regardless of dynamics - you have to make sure how both people benefit

but certainly initial stages it is, kinda, showcasing what you have to offer/contribute (which doesn't have to be anything over complicated.   It can even just be a similar sense of humour and shared enjoyment for a TV show)