Do Women have it 'easier' then men?

[Deleted Member]

  

Just now, eyemblacksheep said:

The 96% in that scenario are all useless.

Here's where your wrong. Guys can make considerable effort and still be considered "useless". So no, you don't just make a few tweaks and get tonnes of replies, it doesn't work like that. Not without the ***, sweat and tears. You know this yourself, man. You said for years you were deeply frustrated you weren't getting anywhere. You're just letting your own side down.

 

1 minute ago, eyemblacksheep said:

Would this not be better as a new topic?

It's in Online Munch I just put it down here as well in case it does not get approved.

[SexxyMoeFoe]

33 minutes ago, BlushingFlush said:

It's really not though. If you just want to chat for the sake of chatting, get a pen pal, maybe go on a language forum and find someone Italian or French. Or discuss politics on Reddit, you don't even have to submit your gender. Nobody will harass you provided you don't have majorly outlier opinions expressed in an extremely provocative or controversial manner.

It is a different topic - one you just said you are waiting for approval for.  The OP was not limited to dating sites, so while you can limit your pov to only what you do and get on dating sites, this is broader. So yes people here can totally be looking for pen-pals and that's ok. 

You mention Reddit, PLEASE view or join r/creepypms.  You'll see tons of examples (screenshots) of unsolicited harassment. I think your view of harassment might be skewed based on your own experience. You'll even see men being harassed because the person assumes they are women (your point about not submitting your gender)...

Also, expressing your opinion in your own profile doesn't make it ok to be harassed. I can absolutely have an outlying opinion and express it and it would still not be ok to get harassed.  Almost sounds like a "you deserve it, look at the pics you posted" response which is a little scary...

Edited September 26, 2021 by SexxyMoeFoe

[ey****]

11 minutes ago, BlushingFlush said:

So we say you go through 20 profiles a day to find someone to message:

• maybe 15-16 are not not what you are looking for, e.g.
  • maybe 5-6  might not be what you want but you're tempted to take a chance to find out
  • 4 might have no profile or even a picture
  • others might say that they don't want to write "their whole life in their profile" 
  • 2-3 could be findoms requesting servitude, gifts or tributes

See. This is why I think there's a wrong approach

You find 20 profiles

Are these ones you stumble on through an intermittent search - or - are you harvesting waiting for new sign ups?  

The ones who aren't what you are looking for. Don't have a profile picture. Have an unappealing profile. Want something you don't want to.  There's no need to message them

The ones that aren't what you want but you're tempted to take a chance... are you what they want?  Because if you're not then you're just adding to the inbox clutter.

[Deleted Member]

1 minute ago, SexxyMoeFoe said:

The OP was not limited to dating sites

In OP:

I've seen from time to time claims that women have it 'easier' than men on kink and dating websites.   

 

When I made it about real life before, you said I was going "off-topic". Basically, I'm able to argue both points of views though so it doesn't really matter which one you consider to be off-topic.

 

3 minutes ago, SexxyMoeFoe said:

You mention Reddit, PLEASE view or join r/creepypms.

I've spent years on Reddit.

 

Quote

I think your view of harassment might be skewed based on your on experience. You'll even see men being harassed because the person assumes they are women

Well nobody ever assumed I was a woman and I was a very prolific poster, so ...

Ok one time it happened but I was not "harassed" for it.

 

Quote

Also, expressing your opinion in your own profile doesn't make it ok to be harassed.

I didn't say it was. I just said avoid being inflammatory to not get harassed. I have very outlier views and also frequently acerbic but I never get harassed. So if you get harassed on a site you haven't submitted your gender you must be saying and doing things to seriously annoy people.

[Deleted Member]

6 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

See. This is why I think there's a wrong approach

You find 20 profiles

Are these ones you stumble on through an intermittent search - or - are you harvesting waiting for new sign ups?  

The ones who aren't what you are looking for. Don't have a profile picture. Have an unappealing profile. Want something you don't want to.  There's no need to message them

The ones that aren't what you want but you're tempted to take a chance... are you what they want?  Because if you're not then you're just adding to the inbox clutter.

There's not even any compatible profiles in my local area that I haven't messaged anymore. I effectively have to search UK wide and even sometimes in Europe or globally. But nobody wants to date someone that isn't local.

[ey****]

5 minutes ago, BlushingFlush said:

Guys can make considerable effort and still be considered "useless". So no, you don't just make a few tweaks and get tonnes of replies, it doesn't work like that. Not without the ***, sweat and tears. You know this yourself, man. You said for years you were deeply frustrated you weren't getting anywhere. You're just letting your own side down.

I did. And I learnt from many of my mistakes and pitfalls.

You know. I've been in a room where one ladies phone has pinged, and it's been a message from a guy on a dating site, and while they're still reading the message and checking the profile and so on - and other lady in the same room has had a ping from the same guy.

And then it'll go into a group chat - and someone else will say "fuck, I've had the same guy - I replied to him, but if he's messaging everyone I'm not interested" 

The lesson there is don't play a numbers game.   Because this is then just shooting into the trees to try to get a hit.

And, y'know. I've done the numbers thing before and not realising of course folk were probably talking to each other "yeah, I've had him"

It is true; I guess that you can seemingly do everything right and not get the response you crave - and - that sucks - but then it's also accepting that... that happens... and that there's 100 reasons why she wasn't interested

(and there's often the thing that sucks - she was interested and meant to message later but got sidetracked by something else and then timeslipped and arrrgh) 

 

[Deleted Member]

4 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

And then it'll go into a group chat - and someone else will say "fuck, I've had the same guy - I replied to him, but if he's messaging everyone I'm not interested" 

See this is what I'm talking about, you have to send out at least a few because you know some of those women are going to reject you. Imagine spending an hour carefully constructing a perfect message just to one woman but she decides you're not her type anyway. And so you send out a few and then the women are like "oh he's not monogamous". Something tells me those women don't understand how life works.

 

Quote

there's 100 reasons why she wasn't interested

Exactly. You're dealing with women that will construe hundreds of reasons why they're not interested. Totally pointless.

Edited September 26, 2021 by Deleted Member

[ey****]

7 minutes ago, BlushingFlush said:

See this is what I'm talking about, you have to send out at least a few because you know some of those women are going to reject you. Imagine spending an hour carefully constructing a perfect message just to one woman but she decides you're not her type anyway. And so you send out a few and then the women are like "oh he's not monogamous". Something tells me those women don't understand how life works.

I think it's a little. That, women don't like to be treat as if the sender is playing the numbers game

And when a few people in a small group of friends are getting messages, then they know this is what is happening.

8 minutes ago, BlushingFlush said:

Exactly. You're dealing with women that will construe hundreds of reasons why they're not interested. Totally pointless.

So I guess, to a degree.

Why keep trying if it's not working? 

[SexxyMoeFoe]

@BlushingFlush I think we're just going to go around in circles since you think harassment is mostly provoked and want the one being harassed to change their behavior and haven't said anything about the one doing the harassment... (even though you are on Reddit and  have seen r/creepypms), and you want to focus on getting dates on dating sites, when the OP literally is talking about online interactions on both kink and dating. Yes I agree it's probably the internet in general since now-a-days people meet and go on dates or make friends from multiple social sites and not just kink or dating sites. 

[ge****]

21 minutes ago, BlushingFlush said:

Exactly. You're dealing with women that will construe hundreds of reasons why they're not interested. Totally pointless.

I can't speak for this site as I'm still figuring it out and am not 100% sure myself what I expect from it - but I spent many years on a more swinging related site that had a similar set up, albeit with a larger, mainly UK based, membership and in my entire time there I sent precisely six unsolicited messages blind to people, got responses to all but one, but didn't meet any of them. Yet I had numerous meets from the site and some truly great and memorable experiences - basically because I figured out early on that just sending messages to people I'd not interacted with was a mostly fruitless and frustrating task and adapted my approach accordingly. I got involved in the forums and found connections that way, made sure I had a decent profile etc.

So it's not always about just sending messages - there are other, and often better approaches - the key is figuring out the one that works best for you the individual.

[SexxyMoeFoe]

18 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

And then it'll go into a group chat - and someone else will say "fuck, I've had the same guy - I replied to him, but if he's messaging everyone I'm not interested" 

The lesson there is don't play a numbers game.   Because this is then just shooting into the trees to try to get a hit.

LMAO.  This has happened to me in 2 of my kik groups... We will often talk about messages we receive and a few times we have seen messages from the same guy.  That's not a bad thing in and of itself... You can totally have similar interests and feel attraction to people in the same circles (and it might be expected since fiends could have similar interests etc) 

but it was the EXACT same message. Copy pasta. Didn't change a word. LOL

 

So I  am not talking about custom, perfectly constructed personal messages here... Spamming is usually copy pasta or a "hi, let me know if you are interested" message with no info about themselves. At least for the numbers game types...

[SexxyMoeFoe]

3 minutes ago, gemini_man said:

Yet I had numerous meets from the site and some truly great and memorable experiences - basically because I figured out early on that just sending messages to people I'd not interacted with was a mostly fruitless and frustrating task and adapted my approach accordingly. I got involved in the forums and found connections that way, made sure I had a decent profile etc.

So it's not always about just sending messages - there are other, and often better approaches - the key is figuring out the one that works best for you the individual.

I was going to say something similar.  I have met many people on sites like this from messages AFTER chatting in discussions, and/or events and very few who sent me direct messages first without any other interaction... I have met people from Tumblr irl because we commented on the same post and started a discussion.  

[Deleted Member]

1 hour ago, eyemblacksheep said:

Why keep trying if it's not working? 

Because there's no other viable alternative.

 

Quote

women don't like to be treat as if the sender is playing the numbers game

If I ever sent the same copy/paste message round I can't remember but it won't have been more than a few times at the most. I don't do the numbers game personally.

 

1 hour ago, SexxyMoeFoe said:

 I think we're just going to go around in circles since you think harassment is mostly provoked and want the one being harassed to change their behavior and haven't said anything about the one doing the harassment

No, I just think there's more to it than "women get a few nasty messages (which happens for various reasons) and that's the reason online dating is tougher for women specifically".

 

55 minutes ago, gemini_man said:

I got involved in the forums and found connections that way, made sure I had a decent profile etc.

It only works because you just kowtow to culturally sensitive narratives that everyone else believes in.

[ey****]

1 minute ago, BlushingFlush said:

It only works because you just kowtow to culturally sensitive narratives that everyone else believes in.

you keep saying this

I don't think it means the things you think it does. 

2 minutes ago, BlushingFlush said:

Because there's no other viable alternative.

accepting you will be alone forever

[Deleted Member]

6 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

accepting you will be alone forever

Then I wouldn't have felt like I tried.

[ge****]

19 minutes ago, BlushingFlush said:

It only works because you just kowtow to culturally sensitive narratives that everyone else believes in.

What a ridiculous and actually baseless point considering you don't know
me from Adam - trust me when I say I "kowtow" to no-one, I have a brain of my own and am quite happy to use it and apply it as I see fit, and express my opinion and back it up with balance and reasoning based on my experiences as I have done many times in this thread alone.

Have you stopped to consider that maybe rather than "kowtowing" as you say, perhaps I have figured out an approach that works for me, and present myself as authentically me, showing consideration and respect for others, and allowed people to come to their own conclusions based on that.

It really isn't about "kowtowing" at all - that would be completely disingenuous for a start.

Either way, you do your way, I'll do mine, I'm perfectly happy with my experience and I truly hope you find what works for you.

[Deleted Member]

@gemini_man

I don't need to know you personally, I've read enough to know enough. You don't back up your own side.

Edited September 26, 2021 by Deleted Member

[SexxyMoeFoe]

14 minutes ago, BlushingFlush said:

No, I just think there's more to it than "women get a few nasty messages (which happens for various reasons) and that's the reason online dating is tougher for women specifically".

I don't see anywhere in this thread that anyone said that (please point it out if I missed it). What I have seen it that it's 1 reason women have it hard. 

Either way, you seem to believe that if someone is harassed they probably provoked it and deserve it, that people are exaggerating the amount or level of harassment they receive (even if you see it in places like r/creepypms), and that the person being harassed should change their behavior but the ones doing the harassing don't have to.  No one deserves this treatment.

[StickyTrickster]

So I’m not directing these comments at anyone specifically, nor am I’m going to take any sides, these are just some general thoughts I’ve had as a result of the many notifications from an argument slowly spiralling down an unproductive drain.

 

1.  The need to win an argument is an unattractive quality.

 

Not only does it convey a need for external validation it also shows that a person is unable to argue productively.  Socrates advocated argument as a method of learning and discovering new ideas and optimal solutions.  By being open to the possibility of being wrong, or another person having a better idea – maybe even someone you don’t necessarily like – or that some answers may be better suited to different people or situations we are each able to learn and discover new and better ways of going about doing things.

 

Modern social media has led many to believe the point of an argument is to “own” or make another person look stupid to discredit them and any of their further ideas.  Subscribing to such closed mindset prevents opportunities to learn and is ultimately self-defeating because even a broken clock is right twice a day and you make a fool of yourself when you argue with someone you don’t like on the few occasions they might actually have a point.

 

There is an old adage of never argue with an idiot as they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.  If the arguments you put forward have merit they will remain convincing to open minded bystanders even if you leave the argument early.  If rather than leave the argument on a quality point you engage in tussle for the actual last word all people come away remembering is your verbal mud wrestle for that rather than your earlier good points.

 

Better to leave on the high note of a decent summary of your points and agree to disagree.

 

 

2.  Comparing suffering or hardship benefits no-one.

 

Everyone is biased in their own assessments of their suffering or hardships because they’ve actually experienced theirs and only heard about that of others.  And so what if by some objective metric your suffering might be worse than someone else’s it doesn’t detract anything from their actual suffering or the fact you’re being a massive bellend saying that their suffering is invalidated as a result.  By that same logic so is your own suffering as there is always someone in the world having a worse day than you.

 

Nobody is looking for a partner that will when they are having a bad time seek to dismiss it and say why theirs is worse.  The nature of change means that all relationships will go through good and bad moments whether from internal or external influences.  If you want a relationship that lasts then a willingness on both sides to sympathise and desire to alleviate each other’s suffering during bad times is needed alongside the desire to give each other pleasure and happiness during the good.

[Deleted Member]

11 minutes ago, SexxyMoeFoe said:

Either way, you seem to believe that if someone is harassed they probably provoked it and deserve it, that people are exaggerating the amount or level of harassment they receive (even if you see it in places like r/creepypms), and that the person being harassed should change their behavior but the ones doing the harassing don't have to.

Except for the fact that I never actually said any of this.

[SexxyMoeFoe]

@BlushingFlush paraphrasing but yeah, ya kinda did:

2 hours ago, BlushingFlush said:

I just said avoid being inflammatory to not get harassed. I have very outlier views and also frequently acerbic but I never get harassed. So if you get harassed on a site you haven't submitted your gender you must be saying and doing things to seriously annoy people.

On 9/25/2021 at 2:22 PM, BlushingFlush said:

So why do women receive all the harassment? I'm not justifying it but maybe all the stuff they put in their profiles that comes across condescending or reactive like "read the profile first ya creeps", "feminist or gtfo", "womanizers need not apply" and so on just rubs some guys the wrong way. I really don't know why some women attract negative attention online but others don't if it's not just their personalities.

 

= Either way, you seem to believe that if someone is harassed they probably provoked it and deserve it  

  

22 hours ago, BlushingFlush said:

I'm aware the experiment may have been inaccurate in some senses. I was just trying to get a feel for how it *could* be like, online dating for women. I did get the sense some of the negative experiences may have been exaggerated.

 

22 hours ago, BlushingFlush said:

Because either they want to be the victim and/or because they know it's difficult for so many men with dating so they find a way to rationalise it away so it becomes "their fault, not mine", despite being entitled to their own standards.

= that people are exaggerating the amount or level of harassment they receive

 

  

23 hours ago, BlushingFlush said:

Maybe I should have changed location somewhere really ghetto and put loadsa crap on my profile to provoke bad reactions. But I didn't wanna see a tonne of dick pics and if I proved anything it's that it is possible to navigate online dating safely with just a modicum of common sense

  

3 hours ago, BlushingFlush said:

Nobody will harass you provided you don't have majorly outlier opinions expressed in an extremely provocative or controversial manner.

 

2 hours ago, BlushingFlush said:

I just said avoid being inflammatory to not get harassed. I have very outlier views and also frequently acerbic but I never get harassed. So if you get harassed on a site you haven't submitted your gender you must be saying and doing things to seriously annoy people.

 

=that the person being harassed should change their behavior but the ones doing the harassing don't have to.

 

 

 

[SexxyMoeFoe]

Anyway, I think this discussion goes way beyond a couple of people's opinions and everyone is entitled to theirs even if I disagree.

I do think it's important to discuss if for no other reason than to expose people to different points of view.

[ge****]

[Deleted Member]

@SexxyMoeFoe

None of that states that harassment was deserved or that the person doing the harassing does not need to change their behaviour.

[SexxyMoeFoe]

16 minutes ago, BlushingFlush said:

@SexxyMoeFoe

None of that states that harassment was deserved or that the person doing the harassing does not need to change their behaviour.

No, just paraphrasing as I said. You mentioned the behavior of the woman being harassed should change, a couple of times, but never the guy harassing... and that the harassment may be because of the women's personality... 🤷‍♀️

Edited September 26, 2021 by SexxyMoeFoe
grammar (for clarity)