Autism and kink

[Ae****]

The norm is a statistical fact. Like, the norm in Africa is to be black. When something's above a certain percentage, that's the norm.
Norm isn't the same as healthy. Or good. Just what's predominant in a sample given sample. Labels don't necessarily mean non-acceptance. They're useful for many people, but for others. Psychology of a pretty young area of knowledge, even much of the dsm-5 and its diagnosis of autism, adhd etc in their current form is questionable at this point. You can be different and accepted I think, i dunno 😭

[ki****]

10 minutes ago, Carnelian2 said:

Don't get me wrong but I am not sure that the fact that I identify as one thing or the other helps me. What helps me is that people accept me as I am, that people accept that my values are mine and that this does not make me odd or unusual if it happens to be different from the norm. The beautiful thing I have seen in the kink community is that people accept us for who we are. Yes, some people want to assign labels but that is their burden, as this need often reflects something in their own reality and not in ours.

Who defines the norm in any case? :)

I agree with you, we should all be accepted for who we are as individuals but unfortunately there’s much of society that are not enlightened to this yet so using labels can help some people to understand differences and that can only come via education, sharing knowledge and experiences and being open to those who are yet to understand. There are very negative assumptions made about anyone who is different and until that is over come unfortunately labels will exist. I see it now as a defence mechanism in society, it’s *** of what is different so they label it to some how quantify it. But by having open discussion like this I believe society is changing and eventually believe the kink world will also be accepted one day. Very interesting debate, love it 😊

[Carnelian2]

5 minutes ago, Aeonova said:

The norm is a statistical fact. Like, the norm in Africa is to be black. When something's above a certain percentage, that's the norm.
Norm isn't the same as healthy. Or good. Just what's predominant in a sample given sample. Labels don't necessarily mean non-acceptance. They're useful for many people, but for others. Psychology of a pretty young area of knowledge, even much of the dsm-5 and its diagnosis of autism, adhd etc in their current form is questionable at this point. You can be different and accepted I think, i dunno 😭

When I read your response I receive and feel that it is a put-down. This is what I have often experienced when contributing to discussions and one of the reasons why I do not often say too much.
I am not sure if that is the aim of what you were saying?
If it was, then you have achieved your aim. I would much rather hear suggestions on how people on the spectrum can feel acceptance of the "norm" as you put it.

[Carnelian2]

@kinkysub4domThank you for your wonderful comment. I fully accept that people use labels as it enables them to better understand things. The only thing I was trying to say that others should not be weighed down by the same labels but be proud of their differences and the way it empowers them.

[Deleted Member]

5 hours ago, Phoenyx said:

I have ASD.  Still, I don't think that it was the source of my kinks, per se.  For example, I doubt that it led to my taste for leather.  That likely came from a different source.  Still, ASD did seem to lead to my ability to function in "The Scene".  Even so, the reasons may be a bit controversial.

It has been said that those with ASD are unable to read people.  For years, I ***ed that to be true.  Through my training and experience, however, I learned that it was actually the opposite extreme.  Folks with ASD are said to have "laser-like focus".  That "focus" caused me to see multiple layers of those with whom I interacted.  For me, that was a confusing mess.  So, I wrongly assumed that I was just reading noise.  Direct eye-contact was the worst.  I could only describe it as "information overload".  It wasn't until I received training in "The Scene", that I learned how to sort those layers of info, and make sense of what I was reading.  It was that ability to see multiple layers, that got me pushed into the "Dom" role.

Has anyone had similar experiences?

I don't have that POV of what it feels like but the focus - I know what you mean as I see it in reality daily. 😁 Being able to immediately pick up on a detail in a busy room/scene is something is definitely an ASD trait. I can see with my ***agers how sometimes it's just noise and overwhelming. Seeing layers of detail would indeed be an advantage in this lifestyle.

[Ae****]

56 minutes ago, Carnelian2 said:

When I read your response I receive and feel that it is a put-down. This is what I have often experienced when contributing to discussions and one of the reasons why I do not often say too much.
I am not sure if that is the aim of what you were saying?
If it was, then you have achieved your aim. I would much rather hear suggestions on how people on the spectrum can feel acceptance of the "norm" as you put it.

Sorry! I didn't mean it like that. I'm not sure where I didn't communicate well but anyways:
Basically I think it's fine if someone is the same or different to most people.

[Deleted Member]

3 hours ago, tendring681 said:

What I will say with that, if you’re talking in a specific ASD case, then no, that’s not the case as your either autistic or not autistic, there is a spectrum but saying everyone has issues is detrimental to those who have the condition and their lived experiences daily.

If that’s not what you meant then please ignore this comment

A great many people do say "we are all on the spectrum". But no, no we're not!

[Deleted Member]

2 hours ago, Lockfairy said:

I am borderline ASD and quite severe ADHD. I think the latter definitely has some connection to my attraction to kink.
 

Firstly, I struggle to concentrate, even on sex and need more stimulation to remain focused.

Secondly, I struggle to be organised in every area of my life and live in a constant, stressful chaos. I love and am so grateful to have structure imposed by someone else. Being submissive with an understanding Dom makes my life so much calmer and reduces my stress levels. 

Thank you for sharing. I'm glad you've found a dynamic that supports you so well! Can I message you, as something you've said has really resonated with me?

[Deleted Member]

1 hour ago, mr_kink said:

i think it all comes under dsm5 but its still vague  as it dosnt cover the different types of adhd or asd

DSM5 is used in the UK, but as I found out this week Europe uses something else.

[Deleted Member]

1 hour ago, mr_kink said:

i dont think anyone is suggesting to put a label on it i think its a case of learning and understanding why and helping people to accept and embrace it and to learn that we arnt alone in the way that we think and act

I think labels are something that divides people. I am certainly not using them here to judge and I hope no-one else will on the thread. I hope you might agree that using the terms I've used has allowed for some wonderful insight .

[mr_kink]

Just now, Dragonflylover said:

DSM5 is used in the UK, but as I found out this week Europe uses something else.

its icd 10 the uk uses it also but also uses dsm5 the dsm5 is more directed at mental health from what ive read while the icd10 is more general illnesses but it also covers mental health. if you ask me their should be set rules for both to be used and their needs to be a global standard when medical and mental health is concerned

 

[Deleted Member]

1 minute ago, mr_kink said:

its icd 10 the uk uses it also but also uses dsm5 the dsm5 is more directed at mental health from what ive read while the icd10 is more general illnesses but it also covers mental health. if you ask me their should be set rules for both to be used and their needs to be a global standard when medical and mental health is concerned

 

That's the one! Was having a discussion with my father who is a retired paediatrician and he said the same tbh.

[mr_kink]

18 minutes ago, Dragonflylover said:

I think labels are something that divides people. I am certainly not using them here to judge and I hope no-one else will on the thread. I hope you might agree that using the terms I've used has allowed for some wonderful insight .

i believe labels are their for people to express their own individuality if they want to

[Deleted Member]

1 hour ago, Aeonova said:

The norm is a statistical fact. Like, the norm in Africa is to be black. When something's above a certain percentage, that's the norm.
Norm isn't the same as healthy. Or good. Just what's predominant in a sample given sample. Labels don't necessarily mean non-acceptance. They're useful for many people, but for others. Psychology of a pretty young area of knowledge, even much of the dsm-5 and its diagnosis of autism, adhd etc in their current form is questionable at this point. You can be different and accepted I think, i dunno 😭

Technically you're correct. But words have weight outside their dictionary meanings. I don't use the term norm or normal. Whether it's statistically accurate is not important when we are talking about people. The word normal carries connotations. And "not normal" has a very negative connotation. I would call someone who isn't on the spectrum neurotypical.

[RAMB]

As a therapist,retired,the whole vanilla world thinks of the kink or fetish community as having a mental disorder because of what the society thinks is normal or abnormal,is up to what the society thinks as a whole according to the dcm4 or 5 homosexuality was changed as a mental disorder was changed accordingly to a life style,some mental disorders need to be classified,right of course but the others just mimmic mental disorders to some because sometimes they act like it?alcoholism mimic’s a mental disorder also but there is a certain criteria that has to be followed before you can classified as such,

[Deleted Member]

7 hours ago, RAMB said:

As a therapist,retired,the whole vanilla world thinks of the kink or fetish community as having a mental disorder because of what the society thinks is normal or abnormal,is up to what the society thinks as a whole according to the dcm4 or 5 homosexuality was changed as a mental disorder was changed accordingly to a life style,some mental disorders need to be classified,right of course but the others just mimmic mental disorders to some because sometimes they act like it?alcoholism mimic’s a mental disorder also but there is a certain criteria that has to be followed before you can classified as such,

Did your comment get cut off as I wasn't sure where you were going with this?

[starig]

I have many a friend who are ASD and most seem to like the communicative part of BDSM relationships, especially if a dom or sb understands nonverbal cues and the added bonus of having hard stops and soft stops.

[Deleted Member]

19 hours ago, Dragonflylover said:

Thank you for sharing. I'm glad you've found a dynamic that supports you so well! Can I message you, as something you've said has really resonated with me?

Yes, of course 😊

[charlias]

Aspergers here :) I find its a very honest form of non verbal communication. You really get to know people once you've had a few sessions.

[Deleted Member]

On 12/1/2021 at 7:07 PM, mr_kink said:

i think it all comes under dsm5 but its still vague  as it dosnt cover the different types of adhd or asd

The diagnostic criteria in the DSM5 covers both inattentive and hyperactive sub-types. 

On 12/1/2021 at 6:38 PM, kinkysub4dom said:

Yes indeed they do, personally I feel adhd should be on the spectrum along with asd and in a way it’s neurodiversity xx

People with ADHD are neurodiverse. Personally, I think ‘spectrum’ is too limiting a concept. It imagines that traits can be lined up and that they morph one to the other in a linear progression. I think a more accurate analogy would be to think of neurodiverse traits as a cloud. Everyone has a different mix of traits. Some are considered to be ASD, some ADHD, some both. Other traits are in there too, such as dyspraxia and dyslexia. These are often co-occurring. 

[Deleted Member]

23 hours ago, mr_kink said:

its icd 10 the uk uses it also but also uses dsm5 the dsm5 is more directed at mental health from what ive read while the icd10 is more general illnesses but it also covers mental health. if you ask me their should be set rules for both to be used and their needs to be a global standard when medical and mental health is concerned

 

 

23 hours ago, Dragonflylover said:

That's the one! Was having a discussion with my father who is a retired paediatrician and he said the same tbh.

The ICD10 only defines the most severe type of ADHD and is not used on its own to diagnose ADHD in the UK. The American DSM5 is the most commonly used (almost without exception) as it defines the sub-types. 
 

The ICD10 classifies all diseases, functioning, and disabilities physical and mental, whereas the DSM is specifically for mental health disorders and neurodiversities. 

[Deleted Member]

5 hours ago, starig said:

I have many a friend who are ASD and most seem to like the communicative part of BDSM relationships, especially if a dom or sb understands nonverbal cues and the added bonus of having hard stops and soft stops.

Non verbal communication seems to be very tricky for those with ASD. You think kink simplifies it and I guess boundaries are much clearer? Really insightful.

[Thenonbinarykitten]

4 hours ago, Dragonflylover said:

Non verbal communication seems to be very tricky for those with ASD. You think kink simplifies it and I guess boundaries are much clearer? Really insightful.

That's actually why I like it is a little simpler I can put trust in someone to care for me but also abide by boundaries without worry they will be offput later on about said boundaries cause boundaries talk comes first not later

[Carnelian2]

10 hours ago, Dragonflylover said:

Non verbal communication seems to be very tricky for those with ASD. You think kink simplifies it and I guess boundaries are much clearer? Really insightful.

I don't know where I sit in all this, but I most certainly prefer specific pointers rather than subtle hints, which I will miss half the time  .. since, I am now aware of this, I can also let others know

[Deleted Member]

1 hour ago, Carnelian2 said:

I don't know where I sit in all this, but I most certainly prefer specific pointers rather than subtle hints, which I will miss half the time  .. since, I am now aware of this, I can also let others know

I have to agree with this....reading between the lines has always been an issue for me. Grey areas I struggle with, but when its black and white much easier