Predators

[Tr****]

This community can be a lot of fun, it can be educational and eye opening and pleasurable and so much more. I can express myself and make friends who enjoy the same things I do. I can learn from others and build upon their successes, or avoid their failures. I really do love this community.

But GODDAMN is it a cesspool for predators (not the fun kind). There are the obvious ones, those I don’t mind so much. But then there are snakes in the grass. Manipulative c**ts hiding behind a pretty face and articulate vocabulary. The type of people who have spent their entire life learning how to make everyone other than themselves seem like the bad guy. The ones who lie and manipulate their way into one toxic relationship after another, all while maintaining that they are not at fault. And I sit here, watching everyone stroke their fucking ego, knowing it’s only going to make it worse.

Do we turn a blind eye to this behavior? Do I turn a blind eye? We all know the saying, “the only thing necessary for evil to triumph, is that good men do nothing.” Obviously dated and overdramatic, also misattributed more often than not…but that’s all I can think of. Bad things happen when good people do nothing, right?

SHOULD THOSE WHO DO WRONG NOT BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE BY THE COMMUNITY?

Idk. I’m obviously speaking to something specific, but this type of thing is very common. Thoughts and opinions?

[Je****]

Oh wow you're very passionate about this, someone has definately struck you in a bad way (like gotten on your nerves).
I have no idea what or who this is in reference to, but part of me is glad!
It doesn't sound very pleasant.
Have you tried speaking to the person/s you feel do this?
No on should ever be or feel manipulated and no one should be manipulating anyone else either!
Sadly I don't think anything can be done on a large scale as it's how you feel about someone but maybe message them and explain your issues and see if there can be any kind of resolution?
I hope you're ok anyway, not nice to feel this way xx

[ey****]

So. I don't know what specific thing you're talking about which can also be a problem.   

But, one thing I've learnt over the years is some things are just self-fulfilling in their destruction.

The concept of community is more fragmented than we'd like to think so sometimes it's just a case of trying to be clear on signs to watch out for.

And yep... some common ones can be someone who has swept through several relationships, often with someone who is new - and they all disappear or sadly have anything nice to say (like, sometimes relationships just don't work out and that's fine.  But when someone has a trail of relationships which all end badly - they're a common denominator.   That if every single one of their exes is 'crazy' or a 'liar' than how are they such a repeat poor judge of character?)

Sometimes all you can do is try to put good info out there.  (and then, get accused of anything from whiteknighting to whatever else) 

[Deleted Member]

Trog, I do believe that we have a responsibility to say something. To speak up against bullying and against types of oppression.
It often falls on deaf ears, and closed eyes.
I like the approach Jen suggested, but I also realize that some people won’t listen. That is their freedom to accept or reject your information and your actions.
I don’t think it is possible to have a 100% safe place free from predatory narcissism. But as you treat others have you have in chat, with respect, kindness, and overall good energy, hopefully that will allow the “prey” (not used here as bdsm label) to feel that difference.

[Deleted Member]

I was going to make a joke about the Arnie film, but I won't because something's obviously happened and I can be tactful sometimes.

The predators that are in your face as, as you quite rightly pointed out, not the ones you need to be afraid of. The ones who are truly problematic are the gaslighters. The quietly possessive ones who sink their claws in and then start stripping away your freedoms one by one, and you let them because it starts under the seduction of domination. The ones who take away your confidence rather than building it up until you're more lost and confused than when you started.

The one thing I will say, is that the Lobby and the Forum are supportive and helpful to people who ask for help. And there are lots of regulars, myself included, who will be a shoulder to lean on and give (quite frankly probably pretty blunt if it's me) perspective to help you see what's really happening beyond your tangled emotions.

[Deleted Member]

Well said Trogdor but unfortunately this decease is very common in many other apps.

[Si****]

Couldn't agree more. Par for the course here unfortunately.

[Deleted Member]

This post reminded me of one a couple of weeks ago in which a young s type was asking should she expose her previous abusive Dom. My advice then was the same as now; Do I think we have some kind of duty to protect others in the community? 100% Yes, I do. I’ve been ‘kinky’ all my life, but my relationships all started pretty normal & vanilla and just ended up kinky. I’ve not met anyone off here yet and as someone new to the community, it is quite anxiety inducing to know there are clearly MANY people that will try to take advantage or push boundaries. I think a lot of people venturing for the first time join these types of platforms is because we feel there is a safety in the community. I’m not sure how to put something in practice though as I’m still unsure how the community actually works tbh.

[ge****]

Having spent a number of years on sites similar to this, there are a couple of angles - firstly the truly predatory and manipulative, word tends to get around fairly quickly behind the scenes and their ability to do so becomes diminished as a result, certainly amongst regular users.

Secondly, one person's predatory and manipulative, may be another's ideal partner i.e. not everyone sees or finds people the same way - and sometimes it's just a case of accepting that you're not on the same wavelength as that person, and it's perfectly alright not to have any time for them.

As for what can be done as a community, where it truly is someone being a bad apple, then sure call them out, but be very careful how you do so - naming and shaming publically is not necessarily the right way to do so, and becomes open to it being their word against yours, and indeed, a matter of opinion in some cases, and as such can go very badly wrong and even backfire. Warning others privately, if done in a balanced way is of course an option, and if many people find that person the same way, then as I said, word soon gets around.

[Deleted Member]

3 hours ago, gemini_man said:

Secondly, one person's predatory and manipulative, may be another's ideal partner i.e. not everyone sees or finds people the same way - and sometimes it's just a case of accepting that you're not on the same wavelength as that person, and it's perfectly alright not to have any time for them.

This thinking was the reason I did not report a 'predator' who I met right in the beginning on this site. Yet, with hindsight and the knowledge I have now, I can see that he was behaving in an intimidating and close to abusive way. To start a relationship like this is unlikely to be wanted or accepted by many people, but more to the point, it really scarred me. So what is more important: that I try to prevent his behaviour scarring others or that he might find that one person that appreciates his abusive behaviour? I know my answer now, but any proof of what he did is gone. I get your point @gemini_man but from where I stand now it's clear that this thinking might make someone who has suffered from a predator feel like they just weren't right for the predator when in fact the predator isn't right for a lot of people. 

A way to call out a predator might be to report them so that the site can at least tell them to change their approach. This way learning could happen. Just letting them get away with it time and time again has little benefit for anyone I think. 

[Deleted Member]

11 hours ago, JenniferTP said:

Oh wow you're very passionate about this, someone has definately struck you in a bad way (like gotten on your nerves).
I have no idea what or who this is in reference to, but part of me is glad!
It doesn't sound very pleasant.
Have you tried speaking to the person/s you feel do this?
No on should ever be or feel manipulated and no one should be manipulating anyone else either!
Sadly I don't think anything can be done on a large scale as it's how you feel about someone but maybe message them and explain your issues and see if there can be any kind of resolution?
I hope you're ok anyway, not nice to feel this way xx

He did call out the person yesterday in a comment which was deleted presumably by Admin.

[Deleted Member]

I don't think the answer is calling them out in posts. I think constant education, open communication and making ourselves available as mentors if we are able to - those things help. And showing support and understanding to those who come forward. Avoiding predators is, in my opinion at least, as much about people knowing what red flags to look out for and having trusted people to talk to about it as it is reporting behaviour. Toxic people thrive in the dark - the more we operate in the light the more they are seen.

[ey****]

Sometimes as well one of the biggest problems is the burden of proof

This isn't me saying someone is or isn't predatory - but that tangible proof is sometimes difficult.

Sometimes this creates it's own web.  In an example cited above one person wanted to expose someone she said had been previously abusive but lacked evidence.  There was however a completely other side of the story that accused them of being the one who was abusive and manipulative.    And people end up taking sides but without necessarily having access to anything above hearsay. 

And obviously whoever was actually being wronged in that scenario (or, if there was even fault on both sides) is largely kinda powerless.

So it again comes down to just trying the best which is "Hey, this is a generic type of behaviour that is a red flag" unless, I guess, you either have evidence or can see someone is displaying that behaviour.

[Deleted Member]

2 hours ago, eyemblacksheep said:

There was however a completely other side of the story that accused them of being the one who was abusive and manipulative.    And people end up taking sides but without necessarily having access to anything above hearsay. 

Very true, this is where the moderators can be a perfect mediator, I think. By telling them about a questionable experience, they can get in touch with the other party. This way, if reporting the person was just an act of revenge or boredom or god knows what, the other person can leave it at that. But if it was a genuine unwanted behaviour, at least they have been called on it. And through this we don't just say: good luck to the next newbie, if you can't read red flags yet then tough luck. 

[ey****]

I guess for example and where I have a little sympathy.

I run a munch.  There are quite a few munches in the area (probably more than required for the populace, but hey ho) and for the past few years the organisers meet every quarter just as a kinda info sharing.

Generally there probably aren't all that many, shall we say, incidents - but they exist.  They happen. And some things are easier to act upon than others.  Like if you see something, in front of you, with your own eyes it's very easy to see what happened and make a call (though, there is the old saying "no one notices when you're provoked, only when you retaliated" - but, OK)

And sometimes there might be allegations of something that has happened privately. Or sometimes people fall out and don't want to be around each other and want organisers to make a call.

Obviously, of course, munch organisers tend to be a voluntary role and while that is not an excuse for below-acceptable standards, sometimes someone who is working a full time job and has their own life commitments and just really wants to help create a gateway for people into the scene... sometimes there's not a lot they can do especially when it's something that lacks evidence.

Sometimes, of course, there are people who one munch or another might decide to ban.  Sometimes there might be someone who folk keep an eye on, but there's always worries those being kept an eye-on are aware of this and adjust their behaviour accordingly.

 But for the best part; it wouldn't be announced to the populace someone is being kept an eye on

Using my experience there.  I don't imagine some sites are all that much different.  Certainly I know on my time here there are folks you can probably guess have been pulled and had a word with - who then will use this to bitch about mods and often leave the site, reign in their behaviour or there have been one or two I've seen have been banned (so arguably that works) but we certainly wouldn't know if someone was being monitored or not.  Sometimes though, the kinda problem is it doesn't solve the problem only move it.  

I guess, for example, if there is any form of evidence or helpful info it could be taken up to the support teams - though, I know the mods pretty much only forum or chat mod and don't have powers beyond that.

But given the difficulty of something tangiable - it goes back to classic education and trying to accept some things aren't as black and white as I sometimes wish they could be.

[Ar****]

4 hours ago, tazzy said:

Very true, this is where the moderators can be a perfect mediator, I think.

You would think - and hope - this would be the case, but sadly my own experience a while ago instead left me disenchanted for some time.

I had an experience with a user here which involved my being repeatedly stalked and harassed across multiple platforms, day and night, not just by her but her friends and family whom she was passing my number onto. It took getting the police involved before the incidents finally ceased. I'd discovered she had approximately 13 FB profiles (!!) she was presumably using to aid this behaviour, and that her profile on here was using a fake picture - catfishing, I assume to lure in more unsuspecting chaps whom she could then cause grief to.

Yet when I reported the profile advising what happened, offering to provide evidence of her activities and that the profile picture she was using was fake (i.e. could fulfil burden of proof), nothing lasting happened. She was suspended for a week then her profile came back with exactly the same profile pic. Nobody ever contacted me to ask for any evidence, and she was left to continue her behaviour freely with anybody she targeted ever since.

I am sure there were reasons why that decision was reached, but it is also why I am loathe to report profiles any longer except for where rules are being breached blatantly and in a clear-cut situation (e.g. finance, commercial advertising) 🤷‍♂️

I don't know what the answers are, but I sure wish I did. 

[Deleted Member]

I agree with this I had an ex bf who was a Dom and constantly treat me like shit, not in a kinky way like he was literally a narcissist

[CopperKnob]

Yesterday at 06:41 PM, Aranhis said:

You would think - and hope - this would be the case, but sadly my own experience a while ago instead left me disenchanted for some time.

I had an experience with a user here which involved my being repeatedly stalked and harassed across multiple platforms, day and night, not just by her but her friends and family whom she was passing my number onto. It took getting the police involved before the incidents finally ceased. I'd discovered she had approximately 13 FB profiles (!!) she was presumably using to aid this behaviour, and that her profile on here was using a fake picture - catfishing, I assume to lure in more unsuspecting chaps whom she could then cause grief to.

Yet when I reported the profile advising what happened, offering to provide evidence of her activities and that the profile picture she was using was fake (i.e. could fulfil burden of proof), nothing lasting happened. She was suspended for a week then her profile came back with exactly the same profile pic. Nobody ever contacted me to ask for any evidence, and she was left to continue her behaviour freely with anybody she targeted ever since.

I am sure there were reasons why that decision was reached, but it is also why I am loathe to report profiles any longer except for where rules are being breached blatantly and in a clear-cut situation (e.g. finance, commercial advertising) 🤷‍♂️

I don't know what the answers are, but I sure wish I did. 

On the flip side, it does sometimes work. I reported a profile here due to concerns re behaviour/s, it took a few weeks but he was eventually banned and the profile is no longer here.
However, based on the fact that profiles are supposedly banned at the IP address and residential IP addresses change periodically, there's nothing to stop that person creating a new account with a new email address/user name etc. Which is essentially what this individual had done previously on another site

[ge****]

27 minutes ago, CopperKnob said:

On the flip side, it does sometimes work. I reported a profile here due to concerns re behaviour/s, it took a few weeks but he was eventually banned and the profile is no longer here.
However, based on the fact that profiles are supposedly banned at the IP address and residential IP addresses change periodically, there's nothing to stop that person creating a new account with a new email address/user name etc. Which is essentially what this individual had done previously on another site

Even easier to do with a mobile or using VPNs - IP changes all the time

[ey****]

I'm not sure what tech they use here to block but pretty much every type of block can either be side stepped (VPN etc) or have collateral (i.e. potentially ban other people in that region) 

I do know creating new, or multiple, accounts is against this site rules and a quick way to be banned or at least fake checked.   I did report a profile I felt was trolling as their behaviour was similar to another previous user and that user is now stuck in a fakecheck. 

[Ki****]

I have reported fake accounts and they have been good to delete them but like the above message say they can make another account

[Deleted Member]

Lot of narcissists here

[Deleted Member]

Please say that again. I’ve met so many, I would tell some guys no and then they would become super aggressive. Some people start off a conversation saying “how big are your tits and let me see your p***y. Then when you call them out they say they were just joking, then for some reason guilt trip me. I had to block so many girls asking me to join there “live in “ *** sub home to literally serve only one guy. ( no sham to anyone who does of course, love you lots❤️) but I was alittle confused for a while trying to figure out most of the girls that I blocked were apart of the *** thing. For, the ones who use other peoples faces Irritate me the most.

[gr****]

Call em out for sure, but be sure you (meaning anyone who does) can handle the onslaught thats bound to come as they turn their games in your direction.