BDSM and monogamy/exclusivity.

[Deleted Member]

I have been on and off at the edges of BDSM communities for a while and something that never made sense to me was the lack of focus on monogamous/exclusive relationships. It has always been very counterintuitive to me because BDSM requires even more trust than one gives to a person they engage in regular, non-kink sex with. Even in more conservative areas this issue exists(though to a lesser extent). 

Why are exclusive relationships so few in these parts? 

 

 

[Deleted Member]

trust and exclusivity do not necessarily work well together, and nonmonogamy requires a lot of communication and negotiation between multiple parties and that builds trust. and it's a misconception that you can only focus on one person.

monogamy used to mean one person for life - now monogamous people go from person to person to person to person. 50 years ago current monogamous relationships wouldn't be called monogamous. so...

bdsm isnt a mainstream thing. it's normal that people try more atypical relationships.

[Deleted Member]

and nonkink relationships require as much trust or you're doing them wrong.

[Deleted Member]

Exactly you hit the nail on the head. I’m new to this community but my experience so far is that monogamie is apparently not part of it while indeed it requires more trust on both sides. So I’m curious as well.

[Je****]

You can still have exclusive relationships in an ENM lifestyle.
Its all about trust at the end of the day.
I am poly (new and learning) and I have a partner who I am exclusive with, but that won't mean I can't have a second just as trusting and exclusive. Mono isn't a bad thing either and still fairly common. But I feel within kink and BDSM lifestyle, its a safe zone to kinda explore more than one relationship at a time/at the same time. So thats why its talked about more perhaps?

[wi****]

Because the trust in BDSM is built out of play, and is predicated upon the fact that everything that happens in play is consensual. Many monogamous relationships automatically assume a lot of consent about the other person. Who else would they consent to, right? However, it seemed incredibly unlikely to find somebody to match you kink for kink, desire for desire, with no need to look outside of your particular coupling for anything. That would be great, and you hear about that magic fairytale relationships, about soulmates, best friends and greatest lovers, all rolled into one. A lot of these also lie to themselves and others, about their desires, needs. So until I find an honest, loving relationship that does encompass all of my desires perfectly, I'll still try and meet people i have just enough overlap with to build deep trust and fulfill each others desires. But I will not ask them to marry me just yet...

[Se****]

Because people typically want sex and just to get off for BTSM could be more intimate

[ey****]

Things aren't linear

So for example - there are plenty of people who are single who seek or indulge in what is effectively pick-up-play.  There is nothing wrong with pick-up-play but it doesn't involve a lot of trust or commitment.

equally, someone indulging in or seeking casual sex doesn't involve a lot of trust or commitment

when things move to become any form of relationship then these do involve trust and commitment

But ENM does not lack trust and commitment - in fact, it probably involves more trust and stability to make work.  

These ideas are not mutually exclusive.

I think mono is more prevalent in kink than it seems - but as ENM relationships are more noticeable than in vanillaland* (*though I have been to a non-mono meet and a lot of people there are NOT kinky at all.) people think it's more prevalent - it's not.

[Deleted Member]

I would have to say it boils down the individuals and their trust levels- speaking from a friend's experience, she compartmentalized her life. Her husband wasn't in the kink world, but understood she had a strong connection to her Dom, and she was in a she/she situation.

Personally, I've stayed out of committed regular relationships the past few years due to a bad marriage; whereas the trust factor is involved, it is also made crystal clear that everything is kept in the open. No secrets, no sneaking around.

[Deleted Member]

It’s the triumph of hedonistic consumerism, I think it all comes down to this

[Ar****]

There are plenty of exclusive relationships in the community, I'd certainly reckon that they outnumbered the ENM/poly relationships. It's a case where something gets noticed/talked about more (as other aspects of kink do too, and for a grand multitude of reasons) but the level of conversation is not necessarily proportionate to the activity. After all, exclusive relationships get talked about by all people in all situations from a relatively early age, it's a relatively commonplace topic in most scenarios - family gatherings, the hairdressers, places of worship, pubs etc. Communities such as ours enable conversations about other types of dynamic free from judgement or scrutiny. There would not be as much to say here about exclusive relationships which hasn't already been said elsewhere.

[ey****]

I think that's the chunk really - folk who are ENM struggle to kinda discuss it with friends, colleagues, etc. so the kink scene they get a bit more understanding.

So, yeah, you could work with or know people who have EMN relationships and you probably wouldn't know.

[Ch****]

Couples are less likely to go to munches, visit clubs together, make themselves known in the community. I think this gives a representation that they make a smaller % than they really do.
.
That being said, it is also a very open community where people can talk about how they really feel, which allows more people to “out” themselves as poly etc.

[Deleted Member]

1 hour ago, Chesterfield_Dreams said:

Couples are less likely to go to munches, visit clubs together, make themselves known in the community. I think this gives a representation that they make a smaller % than they really do.
.
That being said, it is also a very open community where people can talk about how they really feel, which allows more people to “out” themselves as poly etc.

That makes sense, though from what I have seen in my section of the country there are simply far fewer people actively seeking a monogamous relationship in the BDSM communities overall. There's a nontrivial overlap with other cultural issues I think (ex, SF/Portland/Seattle are notoriously alt/progressive) but I also think the communities themselves kind of push it on new people so it creates a feedback loop.

[ey****]

thinking as well

a lot of the origins for BDSM and kink communities come from ENM set ups.   Things like leather families are largely non-mono

and the 'old guard' a lot of the ideas there were inherently non-mono (the whole concept of 'earning stripes' involves playing with others who are not your partner) 

[Ch****]

I don’t know much about the old guard and leather communities. I feel there is space there for someone to make a good documentary.

[ey****]

25 minutes ago, Chesterfield_Dreams said:

I don’t know much about the old guard and leather communities. I feel there is space there for someone to make a good documentary.

there is an article here : 

 

 

one thing this does touch on is that a lot can vary between families and territories - but while there was no standardisation and a lot of evolution - this was a big gateway and influence on modern kink communities. 

[Deleted Member]

4 hours ago, windinthereeds said:

Because the trust in BDSM is built out of play, and is predicated upon the fact that everything that happens in play is consensual. Many monogamous relationships automatically assume a lot of consent about the other person. Who else would they consent to, right? However, it seemed incredibly unlikely to find somebody to match you kink for kink, desire for desire, with no need to look outside of your particular coupling for anything. That would be great, and you hear about that magic fairytale relationships, about soulmates, best friends and greatest lovers, all rolled into one. A lot of these also lie to themselves and others, about their desires, needs. So until I find an honest, loving relationship that does encompass all of my desires perfectly, I'll still try and meet people i have just enough overlap with to build deep trust and fulfill each others desires. But I will not ask them to marry me just yet...

I should have responded to this post first, oh well!

What I don't understand is why not compromise or play each others particular kinks sometimes even if they don't perfectly match yours? Assuming it's not extreme it seems like a reasonable thing for the tradeoff of monogamy(which for me is as strong a desire as any kink).

[ey****]

41 minutes ago, Mathbro said:

What I don't understand is why not compromise or play each others particular kinks sometimes even if they don't perfectly match yours? Assuming it's not extreme it seems like a reasonable thing for the tradeoff of monogamy(which for me is as strong a desire as any kink).

the first thing is everyone has different things which they draw as extreme

I've met people where tickling is a hard limit.  Is that extreme?   Spitting? Sploshing? There are people who hate having their feet touched.  There are those totally freaked out at being at someone's feet or those who will *do* it, but the person would have a better experience with someone who *enjoys* it

What about leather fetish?  But an otherwise perfect partner is vegan?   Or latex fetish but someone either has allergies - or - lacks the budget for latex outfits.   

Someone who loves to go out to clubs and play and someone else who just finds that too much or can't risk it for their job.  

The list is endless.

Equally - what if you do TRY a kink for a partner but you HATE it and they KNOW you hate it - so then have to lock that away because while they appreciate you trying don't want to make you do something you genuinely do not enjoy.

If someone compromises OUT one of their kinks and kinda feels frustrated or resentful. 

There are people in positions in mono relationships where they have to choose a kink or their partner - but non-mono let's them have both

[ey****]

Also

Some people... they might want a Dominant or submissive they only ever see as thus and don't want to be sexually involved with - but do want to be sexually involved with someone else : they just can't get as sexually involved with someone they see as a sub or Dominant just because of how they are.

[Deleted Member]

19 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

the first thing is everyone has different things which they draw as extreme

I've met people where tickling is a hard limit.  Is that extreme?   Spitting? Sploshing? There are people who hate having their feet touched.  There are those totally freaked out at being at someone's feet or those who will *do* it, but the person would have a better experience with someone who *enjoys* it

What about leather fetish?  But an otherwise perfect partner is vegan?   Or latex fetish but someone either has allergies - or - lacks the budget for latex outfits.   

Someone who loves to go out to clubs and play and someone else who just finds that too much or can't risk it for their job.  

The list is endless.

Equally - what if you do TRY a kink for a partner but you HATE it and they KNOW you hate it - so then have to lock that away because while they appreciate you trying don't want to make you do something you genuinely do not enjoy.

If someone compromises OUT one of their kinks and kinda feels frustrated or resentful. 

There are people in positions in mono relationships where they have to choose a kink or their partner - but non-mono let's them have both

There's not a whole lot I wouldn't do sometimes for a woman who reciprocates. I guess it just comes down to a core difference in values, to me being non-mono fundamentally loses something which is more than what's lost in occasionally engaging in a particular kink you maybe don't particularly like. 

 

[ey****]

there's a bit which could go left-field.

But.

If you are mono and only want mono that is fine and there are many others like that.

But, there are also many scenarios where some form of non-mono works best for all.   Although of course, not in every case.

And of course while kink/BDSM is 'built on trust' - so is ENM.  

The two are not mutually exclusive.

But for a scenario

You meet someone and you get on like a house on fire and you try a few things together they are open to doing some things with you they don't particularly like - and of course you do the same with them.  

Then one day... few months later.  They tell you, say, one of the things really important to you - they cannot do for whatever reason, they tried and hoped they would learn to enjoy it but they don't and are withdrawing it.  Do you then punish them by withdrawing something they enjoy?  Do you accept it? You do the former and it's petty, and might end in the end of the relationship given you are both unhappy and if the latter then you might grow to resent.      But, what if they suggested doing the thing with someone else?

Or, perhaps, as you switch - the other person does and just one day after a few months decides they no longer enjoy the submission element - they're happy for you to find a sub, or continue with them as your Dominant - do you suppress a side of you or end the relationship?

And I'm not saying anything is right or wrong.  But that there are relationships where, for example, someone who is a switch has a main partner who is either sub or Dominant - and has the other as an additional relationship or casual play and it keeps them quite content.  Their desires are still met and they return home to their primary quite happy and happy the trust was placed in them to play with others.

 

[Deleted Member]

6 hours ago, eyemblacksheep said:

there's a bit which could go left-field.

But.

If you are mono and only want mono that is fine and there are many others like that.

But, there are also many scenarios where some form of non-mono works best for all.   Although of course, not in every case.

And of course while kink/BDSM is 'built on trust' - so is ENM.  

The two are not mutually exclusive.

But for a scenario

You meet someone and you get on like a house on fire and you try a few things together they are open to doing some things with you they don't particularly like - and of course you do the same with them.  

Then one day... few months later.  They tell you, say, one of the things really important to you - they cannot do for whatever reason, they tried and hoped they would learn to enjoy it but they don't and are withdrawing it.  Do you then punish them by withdrawing something they enjoy?  Do you accept it? You do the former and it's petty, and might end in the end of the relationship given you are both unhappy and if the latter then you might grow to resent.      But, what if they suggested doing the thing with someone else?

Or, perhaps, as you switch - the other person does and just one day after a few months decides they no longer enjoy the submission element - they're happy for you to find a sub, or continue with them as your Dominant - do you suppress a side of you or end the relationship?

And I'm not saying anything is right or wrong.  But that there are relationships where, for example, someone who is a switch has a main partner who is either sub or Dominant - and has the other as an additional relationship or casual play and it keeps them quite content.  Their desires are still met and they return home to their primary quite happy and happy the trust was placed in them to play with others.

I don't think I would ever trust or develop a connection with someone who was having sex or BDSM play with someone else. At least I would never be as invested in the relationship.

Taken to an extreme I would be willing to die for a woman I was married and monogamous with because of her commitment to me. I wouldn't feel compelled to do that for someone who played with other people. I feel it's just a lack of the same level of investment on their part 

In regards to if we found our kinks didn't work, if she didn't want to negotiate to incorporate things I liked to the extent I felt I needed it I would break up and find someone who would. If making me happy was no longer important to her the relationship is dead and it's time to move on.

[sa****]

26 minutes ago, Mathbro said:

I don't think I would ever trust or develop a connection with someone who was having sex or BDSM play with someone else. At least I would never be as invested in the relationship.

Taken to an extreme I would be willing to die for a woman I was married and monogamous with because of her commitment to me. I wouldn't feel compelled to do that for someone who played with other people. I feel it's just a lack of the same level of investment on their part 

In regards to if we found our kinks didn't work, if she didn't want to negotiate to incorporate things I liked to the extent I felt I needed it I would break up and find someone who would. If making me happy was no longer important to her the relationship is dead and it's time to move on.

You say all this like it is a one way street

[ey****]

6 hours ago, Mathbro said:

If making me happy was no longer important to her the relationship is dead and it's time to move on.

What if your happiness is important to her.  But there is something she can no longer do. That she either finds it excessively distressing or something she can no longer physically do, say, due to a change in health.  

So her suggestion to your happiness is to be with her but do that activity with someone else?  

obviously there is a choice of 4

1) break up, even if this is a change beyond her

2) keep pushing her to do it anyway through some form of emotional guilt

3) continue the relationship knowing that you will no longer be able to do activities that were important to you

4) Accept her suggestion

Under (4) this is obviously a big example of her placing trust in you - because this then becomes non-mono but she is trusting you to otherwise uphold the relationship, to come back to her, to go out and have fun doing things you enjoy without you feeling resentful, having to shut part of you off - or - her feeling guilty (directly or indirectly)

Obviously in this scenario option 3 is best for some people - but, my point is kinda how option 4 is the best for others and that it does involve a lot of trust.

If something doesn't work for you, then that is fine - you don't have to go down that route, but this is why it works for others.