What's your definition of CNC?

[FaeBitch]

For me my interest in cnc is more playful and like any ***play is its own thing. I dont want to be hurt or ***d but in a safe situation I want to have someone do things to me, while feeling like I dont have the pressure of having to consent or act like I want sex, even if we've confirmed in advance whats safe to doand what we both like

[pe****]

CNC is one of my favorite types of kink role play but it has to be very detailed beforehand and very open in communication. With the right person, this is such a wonderful experience.

[Dr****]

First legally and morally there is always a safe word, if your not “allowing one” your commuting ***, r**e, etc according to the law. Fix that, most subs I know will be very uncomfortable before the will even yellow let alone red so if they red they mean it and for me it’s 90% of the time a medical related issue (for example a shoulder *** acting up or similar from being in bondage).

Also I don’t full on CNC with anyone I don’t know well and played with and played with hard before. Because commuting to a CNC scene requires a ton of trust in both sides.

While yes it requires trust to to bottom and be in position to be used, controlled, made to do anything at the whim of another it’s also requires a ton of trust to show your darkest version of yourself to another.

But my fav moment with my sub is from a CNC scene, I have a picture of them looking up at me in the middle of the scene with the perfect look of ***, lust, *** and pleasure.

[ey****]

one thing about legality - and some of this may vary by territory (so, yeah, morality can come into this also)

A safeword doesn't protect you from the law.  Nor does a contract. Or anything else.

Let's spin something another way.  You are with a sub and they seem in ***, or they're crying or whatever but there's no safeword so you carry on - sometimes, in the moment, panic, ***, trauma, subspace, whatever sets in and the sub freezes up and doesn't safeword.  But the scene still went too far.

It's gone too far for them, but they're worried about letting you down - so don't safeword - it still went too far

The sub might actually be scared of the consequences of using a safeword - so doesn't safeword - it still went too far.

If it is a CNC scene, the sub might feel that safewording invalidates what they wanted so don't safeword even if things went too far.

 

And, what happens is the Dominant then goes "oh, they didn't safeword they didn't safeword!" in attempt to push the blame onto the submissive.  It is still critical that, in any form of edge play or pushing around limits or so on that the Dominant is confident they can make the call to end (or change) the scene before it goes too far.

Equally, for legality - in most territories what we do is illegal if not en***d.  Someone could walk into a police station covered in marks and bruises and it would be taken seriously in most places.  While some have said having something in place helped their defence - you're still under investigation and still are in a position where something happened which was too far for that person.

That the case will be dropped is more likely that the person on the receiving end is going to have a hard time explaining to a jury that doesn't understand kink the difference between consensual kink and the grounds they're complaining - but this still goes back to morality. 

[Deleted Member]

Don't professional studios deal with this by recording literally everything? 

[Ma****]

June 16, Kitten137 said:

Sounds more like primal hunter to me than cnc

This.

[ey****]

8 hours ago, Mathbro said:

Don't professional studios deal with this by recording literally everything? 

sometimes. but that's a good example of how it doesn't stand up in law.

There were allegations against someone who tried to use "we have consent videos" but the ladies claim they felt pressured into recording them else they wouldn't get paid.    While deposits are sometimes paid up front, the scenes have to be actually shot and recorded before the full payment is made in case something happens like refusal to sign release forms or performer walking out etc.

Think of the movies where the ***ed person makes a call saying they are safe and well whilst their captor is threatening them behind the camera.

[Deleted Member]

42 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

sometimes. but that's a good example of how it doesn't stand up in law.

There were allegations against someone who tried to use "we have consent videos" but the ladies claim they felt pressured into recording them else they wouldn't get paid.    While deposits are sometimes paid up front, the scenes have to be actually shot and recorded before the full payment is made in case something happens like refusal to sign release forms or performer walking out etc.

Think of the movies where the ***ed person makes a call saying they are safe and well whilst their captor is threatening them behind the camera.

It's an interesting legal question in regards to if she taps out half way through to what extent she is owed ***. Conversely if she wasn't paid but performed per contract or left if the studio did something she didn't agree to she could obviously sue for breach. If everything is agreed to with a continuous camera recording from the start/interview process I have a hard time believing this would be a problem.  

I didn't watch it but I think the video "Graphic Sexual Horror" which explored insex tried to say the CMU guy did something like that, it's probably true to an extent IDK. 

I honestly am very curious how BDSM modeling and content production works professionally, do people just register a business name and do it? Is there some set of standards? This per the US, I know you are in the UK.   

[ey****]

4 hours ago, Mathbro said:

It's an interesting legal question in regards to if she taps out half way through to what extent she is owed ***. Conversely if she wasn't paid but performed per contract or left if the studio did something she didn't agree to she could obviously sue for breach. If everything is agreed to with a continuous camera recording from the start/interview process I have a hard time believing this would be a problem.  

I guess the other problem is as well as any monies owed - the other thing of concern is future bookings.  If she's decided this company is not someone she wants to film with again, she's still going to want other bookings and have good references and, at the time, worried how it will affect things.  Alongside even just going through with something they thought they had to.

Which, funnily enough, is a problem subs can sometimes have if they're pushed into something too quickly.   

4 hours ago, Mathbro said:

I honestly am very curious how BDSM modeling and content production works professionally, do people just register a business name and do it? Is there some set of standards? This per the US, I know you are in the UK.   

in essence. yes.

but, ahem, just because someone says they're a producer, performer, studio, whatever.... doesn't mean anyone wants to work with them 

[sW****]

June 14, TheAngelThatBinds said:

CNC and R*pe/Ravishment Play get confused a lot, which is why you need to talk through situations and scenarios first.

Technically, CNC is not R*pe Play. Consensual non-consensual is basically allowing your partner to do whatever they want to you without having to ask permission (within pre-agreed boundaries). You don’t get to say no. They don’t even have to ask you. They fancy a f**k? You’re bent over the table and their c**k’s inside you. Doesn’t matter what your doing or what you want, you’ve already agreed to be used when and how they want. That doesn’t mean anything goes, only what you’ve agreed too. Agreeing that they can do anything they want at home or around the garden doesn’t mean then can bend you over the bread basket in Tesco’s.

R*pe Play, on the other hand, is the roleplaying scenario where “you’re ***d to have sex”. You get to fight back, you may even get slapped around, if that’s the fantasy, you get to say no, you get to object, and there’s the difference.

Both are about control, and I’ve seen both terms used interchangeably, but they are two distinct and separate things, which is why you should always discuss things beforehand incase what you’re expecting isn’t what’s about to happen.

Most R-play has an element on CNC in it. I feel it falls under the umbrella of CNC. It is a fantasy scene within the construct of it being "nonconsensual." The CNC term came from R-play, and it has since been integrated into many D/s or M/s relationships as a perpetual status.

[Deleted Member]

8 hours ago, eyemblacksheep said:

I guess the other problem is as well as any monies owed - the other thing of concern is future bookings.  If she's decided this company is not someone she wants to film with again, she's still going to want other bookings and have good references and, at the time, worried how it will affect things.  Alongside even just going through with something they thought they had to.

Which, funnily enough, is a problem subs can sometimes have if they're pushed into something too quickly.   

in essence. yes.

but, ahem, just because someone says they're a producer, performer, studio, whatever.... doesn't mean anyone wants to work with them 

Interesting

So what's the normal trajectory for "getting into the biz"? Is there a difference between the "hardcore" scenes and "softcore" photos or what ever? 

[ey****]

1 hour ago, Mathbro said:

So what's the normal trajectory for "getting into the biz"? Is there a difference between the "hardcore" scenes and "softcore" photos or what ever? 

we risk going way off topic - but - a lot can vary depending on what you want/hope to do but evidence of investing in yourself is a big boost.  Being able to email someone with a show reel and evidence of certs is going to be more favourable than another random : most photographers will be able to help with a portfolio shoot.    Fetish is easier to get into in the UK as a lot of Dominants advertise for film subs and even the ones who don't advertise but you know film - they tend to pick people known to them and booking sessions makes you known to them.   In the US I'm less sure because there's all sorts of local laws and such - I know someone like Alice in Bondageland gets a lot of requests and she always says the same "these are the munches I will be at, come along - get to know me"  

[ma****]

CNC stands for consensual non-consent.

It can be implemented in scenes or dynamics.

In scenes, hard limits and safewords can be kept during CNC (it doesn't mean that it isn't CNC if safewords are kept) and it is recommended to be used unless you have known and have been in a D/s dynamic with the Dom for a few years and you can trust letting go your limits and safewords. For example, if I was in a D/s dynamic, I would like somnophilia or Sleeping Beaty (which is a form of CNC) to be part of it... I would give blanket consent (after being discussed and negotiated during vetting) to my Dom to have sex with me while sleeping or *** or simply having sex with me or use me whenever He wanted; still, my hard limits (such as bringing others into our scenes/plays or having the scenes/plays in from of *** or having *** or any other substances administered etc) would still be in place; the same would go for my safewords.

In dynamics, usually in M/s dynamics, CNC is implemented in all aspects. That can be very risky and dangerous if people rush into it very quickly for the Master/Dom should know his slave on a very deep level and He should be able to differentiate what it is safe or not for his slave/submissive's health (physically, mentally and emotionally). In this case, after a period of a few years of D/s when both/all parties decide to start a M/s, the slave gives consent once and it will be revoked only when the dynamic will end (again, this is not to be confused with CNC scenes where hard limits and safewords are recommended, especially if people involved in the scenes haven't known each other for a very long period of time).

[Deleted Member]

Personally I want to be crying and screaming and pushing them away but it’s consensual. I’ve just always had a fantasy about it

[al****]

i mean CNC is tuff bcs you playing a roleplay of r*ping some1, so yea idk what to think abt it, i don‘t even know if i would wanna do that to the girl if she really would be into it i would consider it tho

[Wo****]

4 hours ago, alwayskeepitlow said:

i mean CNC is tuff bcs you playing a roleplay of r*ping some1, so yea idk what to think abt it, i don‘t even know if i would wanna do that to the girl if she really would be into it i would consider it tho

That's only one aspect of it. It isn't always about r*** play. 

My hairstyle came out of a CNC scene.

Consensual non consent covers more than just r*** play.

[ey****]

27 minutes ago, BountyHunter said:

Consensual non consent covers more than just r*** play.

I feel this is a little bit of the most common problem

I don't want to say anyone is right or wrong - but - a lot of comments throughout this thread have, to me, served as a big reminder on the importance of communication

What some people call CNC is solely around r*** play - that - any other limits still apply, safewords, etc.  and that's totally fine - so long as the other person involved is on the same page.

What others might call CNC is *almost* anything goes (there always has to be the trust that a Dominant will always have the sense not to saw your hand off or send nudes to your employer or so on... some people might have other limits which are not to be crossed) 

And others might actually be trying to overcome certain limits under the guise of it being CNC - a little kinda "this is my limit I want you to break and it'd be easier to do so if I felt you were making me or that I was doing it for you"

whatever one person or another feels is permitted under CNC (or any other type of play, to be fair) they really must ensure their partner is on the same wavelength

--

speaking of haircuts this reminds me of an old story about a shibari expert who had a queue of subs coming for play - and some would just be tied up, then let down, then some would be played with while tied or whatever - the whole concept of when being in bondage like that there is literally nowhere you can go.

He had a female sub insist that he could do 'anything' to her when she was tied up.... aaaand.... he cut off all her hair.  She was devastated.     He was also apologetic when he found he'd caused her distress, but did repeatedly ask about what she wanted to do and what her limits were and was repeatedly told "anything" 

[ma****]

55 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

I feel this is a little bit of the most common problem

I don't want to say anyone is right or wrong - but - a lot of comments throughout this thread have, to me, served as a big reminder on the importance of communication

What some people call CNC is solely around r*** play - that - any other limits still apply, safewords, etc.  and that's totally fine - so long as the other person involved is on the same page.

What others might call CNC is *almost* anything goes (there always has to be the trust that a Dominant will always have the sense not to saw your hand off or send nudes to your employer or so on... some people might have other limits which are not to be crossed) 

And others might actually be trying to overcome certain limits under the guise of it being CNC - a little kinda "this is my limit I want you to break and it'd be easier to do so if I felt you were making me or that I was doing it for you"

whatever one person or another feels is permitted under CNC (or any other type of play, to be fair) they really must ensure their partner is on the same wavelength

--

speaking of haircuts this reminds me of an old story about a shibari expert who had a queue of subs coming for play - and some would just be tied up, then let down, then some would be played with while tied or whatever - the whole concept of when being in bondage like that there is literally nowhere you can go.

He had a female sub insist that he could do 'anything' to her when she was tied up.... aaaand.... he cut off all her hair.  She was devastated.     He was also apologetic when he found he'd caused her distress, but did repeatedly ask about what she wanted to do and what her limits were and was repeatedly told "anything" 

Your haircut comment has made me think of a few more aspects that need to be added on my hard and soft limits list.

[ol****]

My definition FWIW is something ytou might both chose to work up to if you are in a relatively stable D/s relationship.

For this this is not something to be undertaken lightly. I've had total strangers tell me of their kidnap and r--e fantasies. As a D there is no way I would ever entertain that with somebody I hardly knew.

...and yes, I agree you can still have a safeword.

[ey****]

1 hour ago, maryioni said:

Your haircut comment has made me think of a few more aspects that need to be added on my hard and soft limits list.

I could head rather leftfield - but it plays into some things I've said elsewhere about that.... one of the problems sometimes with limits lists is they're not exhaustive. 

[sW****]

June 19, curvyyogamama said:

I'm not trying to call anyone out specifically but I am concerned that when you are discussing the downside of going to far or not stopping when appropriate is that the partner might not want to play with you again. No one even mentions anything that sounds remotely empathetic. This is a quality that is so extremely important when I am considering letting someone Dom me and especially before any type of CNC is involved. The major consequence of failing to recognize and implement an actual desire to stop would be the difficulty that the partner could go through during and after the situation. Ig I am blessed to have close relationships with the people I play with like this. The build up was slow and gradually added to as trust was built. Aftercare was always so incredibly restorative. There was always a conversation about how things went and what we may have taken further and wanted to try the next time. The Dom took the time to really get to know me and my limits and be responsive even before I could consciously request the change while deep in subspace. Ultimately though, the deep trust I have in my Dom is such that I never have actual *** and can just let go and don't even have to worry about communicating in that moment.

Needed more hearts for this comment. ♥ ❤❤❤❤❤❤

[Th****]

Also on the point about empathy raised by curvyyogamama.

I think you hit one of the nails on the head, in the whole wide range of play that CONSENSUAL non-consent covers Empathy is absolutely essential for a Dominant. Without that they cannot read their sub or pick up on the small tells that you learn in a dynamic.

The other that occurred to me is probably going to seem counter intuitive to some. It is that a Dominant needs humility. If for any reason a CnC scene requires pausing, stopping or if a previously unknown trigger is hit. Then the Dominant needs the humility to instantly put their needs as secondary to their submissives.

This can be quite a mental wrench, so the engrained empathy and humility ensures the submissive is safe even when the unexpected happens.

Given enough time it always does.