Pushing Boundaries

[Deleted Member]

What is considered the acceptable way to push boundaries? There seems to be a couple trains of thought which are 1. never do it or 2. do it slowly but via pre-negotiation or 3. Do it slowly while playing(not to violate a hard limit but maybe a soft one?). 

In general people who maybe aren't comfortable doing something initially perhaps would be comfortable later on - on one hand I don't really feel good about pre-planning to nudge my SO into a particular kink activity but on the otherhand this seems to be done pretty often to get people not into kink into kink. My particular kinks wouldn't really alter the nature of the relationship(not like adding a third or something) but it feels kind of manipulative with this goal in mind. 

[ca****]

Limits and boundaries are there for a good reason, pushing them (or pushing passed them) is stupid, extremely disrespectful to the dynamic and dam right a dangerous.
If something is discussed and both parties agree to do it, it's not a limit that is pushed, that's just a kink thats being tried, if one party says its a limit and the other person tries it anyways, they need shooting!
Respect the limits, respect the boundaries, stay within consent and be safe!

[pu****]

I would say it’s up to someone to push their own boundaries, and the partner to support that, rather than the partner leading them to or encouraging them to.

[Lord_Talion]

Consider the soft limits while adhering to the hard limits

[li****]

All of the above I lean towards to and I would base it off of my partner

[Deleted Member]

13 minutes ago, punsnbuns said:

I would say it’s up to someone to push their own boundaries, and the partner to support that, rather than the partner leading them to or encouraging them to.

What is maybe not OK today is perhaps OK in a month, or a year though. I'm not saying directly violate a rule that is explicitly asked prior to playing but I am saying that you can plan on incrementally escalating into a particular kink if each time you play you push slightly in negotiation and they end up liking it.  Many do this even if they don't explicitly acknowledge what they have done. 

[ro****]

>>>(keep in mind this is in my personal experience with various partners might not be best for everyone)<<< I've found that usually when trying something for the first time, its best to ask them about trying it in the heat of the moment, for example say my partner has never given deepthroat felatio, I would wait until she was in the middle of giving me head to ask her if she wants to try and this is for several reasons. NUMBER 1 being, that her mind is already busy and she doesn't have time to go over and over it in her head and psych herself out about it which (in MY experience) has lead to making a more genuine decision. NUMBER 2, it gives you something to fall back on in the event that if she says yes she wants to try it but then at some point decides she doesn't like it or it becomes too much. you just go right back to what you were just doing and what she already had her mind on which (again, in MY experience) I have found helps to ease the situation and helps them to not feel like they have "let you down" in some way. And MOST Importantly NUMBER 3, even if something has been pre-agreed apon, in the heat of the moment it may be to much or she could have changed her mind. Most of all please remember that this is just my experience and does NOT mean this is the way for you and your partner, talk to each other, play hard but explore slow. Stay freaky my friends 😏

[Deleted Member]

So I like to have three levels of activities - a green list, a yellow list and a red list. The green list my D can do to me at any time, no prior negotiation. The red list is a no and I am not interested in being pushed here. The yellow list is on a sliding scale and is things I'm interested in but might not be ready for initially, so they are soft limits to be pushed by negotiation. I'd want to talk about them before a scene and proceed cautiously.

[Deleted Member]

My experience in the past month has been no discussion, no negotiation...simply HRU, show me your 🍑, and turm on your cam so you can watch me cum. Say no, and they keep pushing. Call someone on being rude, and you're a bitch.

It's not the level you posted about, but it's the most basic, common exchange. And, it happens multiple times daily. How do you even begin to build trust, respect, etc.?

Don't get me wrong, my profile has a long list of kinks I way to try with TRUSTED partner. If we're negotiating, there's a list that I'm willing to be pushed on. I expect my partner to share his/hers. So, I guess I fall in the pre-negotiated camp for during play, and when someone gives a firm NO or safe word, the other person changes tuneor backs the F off.

[Deleted Member]

4 hours ago, Lady_Char said:

So I like to have three levels of activities - a green list, a yellow list and a red list. The green list my D can do to me at any time, no prior negotiation. The red list is a no and I am not interested in being pushed here. The yellow list is on a sliding scale and is things I'm interested in but might not be ready for initially, so they are soft limits to be pushed by negotiation. I'd want to talk about them before a scene and proceed cautiously.

Has your red list ever evolved over time? From what I remember your D/s play isn't based on a LTR so maybe this doesn't apply but I got an obvious generic example.

Perhaps I get with a woman who doesn't want to be chained down but she is OK with her hands held, after a bit of time maybe I push the subject again for handcuffs and she consents. I make it fun and enjoyable and we continue to add more. This progression keeps up and eventually she's OK with doing what I wanted initially but wouldn't at the start.

At its core I'm still pushing her boundary each time and she is agreeing to it conditioned on our prior play. In a way it's inherently manipulative because I came it into with a goal but at each stage she consents through my nudging. I'm not sure if I should feel bad about it or not since this is what a lot of people do but on the otherhand it seems a bit dishonest to have it planned out beforehand.   

Now she could certainly hate one of the experiences and wouldn't touch it again or at least not for a long time but, if done carefully that's unlikely.

Also if we ever break up it's possible I end up giving her kinks which maybe she wouldn't have had at the start and I'm not sure how I feel about that depending how it manifests.  

 

Edited June 18, 2022 by Deleted Member

[Ja****]

I make it clear from minute one that pushing limits is what I’m about. As a Dominant man it’s my job to read the cues her body is broadcasting and find what it is that brought her to me.

[Deleted Member]

I used to have a long red list. That's reduced down to a very small list that is non negotiable. Perhaps there might be room for me to consider moving one to yellow. Having said that, a lot of activities in my yellow list are heavy orange. I really don't want to do them, but I won't rule them out in the right circumstances with the right person.

When I first started, I had a red list as long as your arm. A lot of that was ignorance and so it shrank as I evolved. What's left is things I'm morally opposed to or really physically cannot handle.

[Ja****]

28 minutes ago, Lady_Char said:

I used to have a long red list. That's reduced down to a very small list that is non negotiable. Perhaps there might be room for me to consider moving one to yellow. Having said that, a lot of activities in my yellow list are heavy orange. I really don't want to do them, but I won't rule them out in the right circumstances with the right person.

When I first started, I had a red list as long as your arm. A lot of that was ignorance and so it shrank as I evolved. What's left is things I'm morally opposed to or really physically cannot handle.

The key for me is what you said: “Right time, right people.” I’ve done things I would never admit because the people I was with were very sexy and THEY were into it.

[Mi****]

37 minutes ago, Lady_Char said:

I used to have a long red list. That's reduced down to a very small list that is non negotiable. Perhaps there might be room for me to consider moving one to yellow. Having said that, a lot of activities in my yellow list are heavy orange. I really don't want to do them, but I won't rule them out in the right circumstances with the right person.

When I first started, I had a red list as long as your arm. A lot of that was ignorance and so it shrank as I evolved. What's left is things I'm morally opposed to or really physically cannot handle.

I used to be very vanilla, way I was bought up I'd never hurt a woman etc. But as I've had relationships and had open communications I've found myself more and more open. I've also found that many of my partners who had hard limits against stuff, soon disappeared as the trust was there and we'd usually worked ourself up to it.

To give an example, a lot of girls don't like anal because either they've never wanted to or have had a bad experience, yet most of girls I've been with who had anal as hard limit, had completely changed mind and enjoyed it immensely.

Also, there's kinks I've done with some ppl, but but not others, but I must admit, I love getting a girl to open up to a new kink or something previously they'd never do, but only if it brings them pleasure.

[CopperKnob]

6 hours ago, rochesterdom said:

>>>(keep in mind this is in my personal experience with various partners might not be best for everyone)<<< I've found that usually when trying something for the first time, its best to ask them about trying it in the heat of the moment, for example say my partner has never given deepthroat felatio, I would wait until she was in the middle of giving me head to ask her if she wants to try and this is for several reasons. NUMBER 1 being, that her mind is already busy and she doesn't have time to go over and over it in her head and psych herself out about it which (in MY experience) has lead to making a more genuine decision. NUMBER 2, it gives you something to fall back on in the event that if she says yes she wants to try it but then at some point decides she doesn't like it or it becomes too much. you just go right back to what you were just doing and what she already had her mind on which (again, in MY experience) I have found helps to ease the situation and helps them to not feel like they have "let you down" in some way. And MOST Importantly NUMBER 3, even if something has been pre-agreed apon, in the heat of the moment it may be to much or she could have changed her mind. Most of all please remember that this is just my experience and does NOT mean this is the way for you and your partner, talk to each other, play hard but explore slow. Stay freaky my friends 😏

You never ask a sub to push past their limits during a scene/play. Subs do not necessarily have the presence of mind to answer well. All negotiations take place prior. I'd view any negotiations during a scene/play as a *** of my consent.
Others are free to disagree but it's how I view it

[CopperKnob]

7 hours ago, Mathbro said:

What is maybe not OK today is perhaps OK in a month, or a year though. I'm not saying directly violate a rule that is explicitly asked prior to playing but I am saying that you can plan on incrementally escalating into a particular kink if each time you play you push slightly in negotiation and they end up liking it.  Many do this even if they don't explicitly acknowledge what they have done. 

I'd maybe think about your use of the word "push". It's not about pushing, it's about discussing openly and honestly, acknowledging and understanding. Limits will and do change but it very much depends on the individuals and the relationship.
I also think that if people are "pushing past limits" and not acknowledging it, it's a very dangerous game to play for both parties. Captain-kink has it right, stay within consent and generally all will remain safe. Push a sub and they'll either experience harm (physical/emotional) and/or make an accusation re consent ***/s

[Matttster]

Part of the problem is in definitions. You have to have good communication. Similar to what Lady Char indicated with having three lists.

I tend to lean towards limits and boundaries. Limits are not to be crossed or pushed. Whereas boundaries are areas that can be pushed. So similar to Lady Chars red (limits) and yellow (boundaries).

So the important thing is making sure all parties involved are on the same page and they are defining things the same.

I think for all of us, limits and boundaries change over time regardless if we are Tops or bottoms. As we explore our boundaries, they will often expand. Also, we as people change over time.

[Da****]

I typically use a 3 safeword system. The first safeword is the all stop. The second is I'm feeling uncomfortable but want to see where it goes. The third is I like the feeling but am having a hard time processing. I train a lot of noobs. So they may or may not know their limits and boundaries. During breaks I'll ask which how they feel about what happened, if they can't or don't tell me during. But everything is discussed before and after. So what I'm saying is yes consent is a must but sometimes you have to "push" a little. For example, my current sub a hard limit for her was anything anal(traumatic experience). During beginning communications she had expressed the interest in finding out if it was just anything anal or just penetration. She had all three safewords and through their use she was able to move past the anal hard limit. It took a few sessions, but now playing with her a** is a turn on for her.

[ey****]

On 6/17/2022 at 11:56 PM, Mathbro said:

What is considered the acceptable way to push boundaries? There seems to be a couple trains of thought which are 1. never do it or 2. do it slowly but via pre-negotiation or 3. Do it slowly while playing(not to violate a hard limit but maybe a soft one?). 

 

the correct answer depends on the person you are playing with (and also - a lot of people here are talking about Dominants and subs boundaries; but Doms have their own boundaries also....)

So if someone says there's a boundary they want to work on, then option 2

if you are in a CNC scene then this based on how much trust you have in them and you as of what is a limit that is OK to break

Deliberately breaking or pushing boundaries without any form of consent is an immediate red flag - because you've violated consent - or made it perfectly clear you don't care about their consent.

[Deleted Member]

I think it obviously depends on the partner and the trust you have for that person. Intimacy, control, exploration all take trust.

[Deleted Member]

Thanks for deleting my comment

[FETMOD-TF]

2 minutes ago, TheMormonSoak said:

Thanks for deleting my comment

Your comment wasn't deleted. It was waiting to be approved, as all content in the Kink Academy forum must be approved by a Moderator. 

[sp****]

I like too see what My partner is welling to do or not do. Lol

[Deleted Member]

As you I don't like to script sessions, I prefer if my Dom introduces things but just in a simple manner for a short time and then moves on to something else without elaborating the activity in the sessions.... once sessions is over and as part of aftercare it then gets talked about

[ru****]

holy red flags in this post.