A dynamic flaw in the program?

[Am****]

The vast majority of men identify as Dominant nothing more, whereas women are predominantly Switch or submissive.
[This 'fact' is anecdotal and the basis of this discussion, please argue it's validity elsewhere]
.
Obviously on any dating app the women are in the minority that's why the devs of them incentivise for women. Either by making features free for women or women must speak first.
.
So it produces this unusual dynamic that you only otherwise see at the very end of a munch:
1 sub and 100 Doms/doms & pseudodoms around her vying for attention. (Although at a munch it's more like 1:5).
Usually all the guys are staring at the girl waiting for their chance to be engaging and (key importance for this dynamic) ignoring everyone else.
.
In person the solution is easy, you arrive earlier when people are more sober. Chat, flirt and get to know some interesting people, make people laugh and add them on fetlife (kinky Facebook) to talk to later.
Drunk people cannot consent anyway.
.
Then you leave! Once it becomes a competition for the girl, it feels to me like lions stalking a deer on the serengeti.
Or a meat market.
I suspect everyone else is too *** to notice, I prefer to not get drunk.
.
So my question to you:
What do you think of this dynamic shift?
With the predominantly sub girls, when a new cutie appears on the app the desire to say hi is high. This is why I am on here, to meet interesting and kinky peoples, the same as a munch.

[Deleted Member]

You are joking aren’t you?

[Deleted Member]

At a munch you’re right, but generally wrong.

[Deleted Member]

First and foremost this an international community. So I think there is an aspect of, “Lost in translation”. Depending on the language of the person writing the test questions the users may have words presented that don’t best match their native language.

*

I am GenX and I am firmly grounded in in my personality. But the youngest generations have the luxury to be free and try different things because their personality is still developing. I would think that there would be a lot of Switches and NonBinary in the younger generations as they navigate their sexuality but also the ever changing public sexual consciousness.

*

And personally I DO NOT chase subs. If you follow/watch those that do, you’re witnessing a culturally acceptable primal response to prey. And while the idea of a submissive new to the scene is enticing, I am in competition only with myself, so competing with other Doms is silly.

*

And to be honest, here in America strong masculine men are only recognized for two things, 1) athletic prowess, or 2) military prowess. So the fact that there are many male Doms is not surprising. The fetish community is really one of the few places left in society where male prowess, strength, and leadership is sought after.

[sl****]

Couldn't have said it better myself 😊

[Th****]

There’s nothing unusual about this dynamic. When it comes to sex, men are typically concerned with quantity while women are concerned with quality. Along with that, when are hypergamous, meaning they are concerned with attracting the most suitable mate possible, hence there preference of quality over quantity.

[ey****]

I think if you're going to a munch and the men outnumber women 5:1 and it turns into a on 1 scramble for her attention then you are (a) going to awful munches with awful people (b) the very reason more women don't go to that munch.

[Yo****]

Personally I identify as a sub leaning switch but I have seen what you are referring to. I pretty female sub comes in and any non pretty or non female subs are all of a sudden invisible, in fact I’m the 6 months I was able to attend munches and events the only activities I got to participate in were a primal night and a try new things night. However no one was interested in me as a sub. They only wanted the stereotypical pretty female subs it seems.

[ey****]

A lot of the problems is simple.

A lot of men are gross.

But not only gross, that they lack a self awareness and will look at reasons beyond their reasonable control for their failure.   For example, blaming ratio's or number games or whatever which is all horrifically objectifying and lacks the crux of the problem.

Men are obsessed about ratios and numbers games rather than making themselves more appealing.   

Imagine, if you would, using the example of the munch - thankfully most munches here are not like that - where a new lady turns up and there's a bunch of guys all fawning over her, pushing each other out the way trying to be the one to get there first and corner her and so on - and it's actually pretty predatory behaviour. 

There's many ways she could feel about this, a lot might depend on her motivations of coming to the munch - but given there's a lot of newbie nerves, she might find this overpowering, too much - and she certainly would not find it flattering, knowing the same guys will be doing it to the next newbie.

To be honest, if she is considering play at some point in the future, pretty much all of those guys are hoisting up red flags.  The person at the munch who is more likely to do some form of play with her in the future is probably the one who makes her feel welcome without being pushy, who she can sit and talk with without it feeling like there's a dickwaving contest.  At one of our munches there was a lady who turned up and left with a guy, and she left with him cos his first approach wasn't to push everyone out the way to talk with her and they connected organically

A lot of the same is true for online.  Everyone knows there are guys who sit waiting for new profiles to try to be amongst the first to contact them, and, particularly if the conversation is poor - it doesn't stand out, it's something which can actually be overwhelming for some people and also, it's not really flattering when they know you are doing exactly the same to the next person who signs up.

And that's also predatory behaviour.  

What happens again depends on the mindset, there is an assumption that being on a site like this that she'll want to meet someone as quickly as possible - but a lot of people weigh up things in time, but certainly feeling overawed or overwhelmed, especially by a lot of poor messages (she's still working out what she wants to put on her profile and getting 'hey' messages) and, like.... 

people say it's 100 guys to a woman, which is far from true - but even if it was true it's the same 100 men who keep failing.  Cos they don't learn.

They just repeat the same mistakes and blame the ratio or weird dynamics rather than stepping back and being, "Hold on, I'm I unwittingly part of the problem here" 

 

[Ar****]

1 hour ago, Alex10473 said:

You are joking aren’t you?

I don't think he is, unfortunately... 🤦‍♂️🙄

[ge****]

I'm not entirely sure of the point you're trying to make OP unless it's another take on the well trodden 'there are more men than women on sites like this' path and how that plays out.
.
In which case I'd suggest it's not an overly new dynamic or even a shift in one, take the days before the Internet when you'd go to nightclubs or similar, whilst the numbers may have been more evenly balanced you still had the groups of certain men circling their "prey".
.
Personally I've found, in my experience of this site and others like it, that whilst there is a huge imbalance between male and female members you can immediately discount around 75% of the males who simply do not "get" it, or understand how to approach the site and get the most from their time there - this leaves the balance a lot more evenly loaded and removes the "Serengeti" analogy completely for the remaining 25%.
.
Despite your request not to, I'd challenge your "vast majority of men identify as Dominant" anecdotal 'fact', I certainly don't identify that way, and know plenty that don't - however the 'fact' is actually irrelevant when it comes to the remainder of your post - as the "Serengeti" analogy can be applied just as equally to submissive males vying for the attentions of a single dominant woman.

[Deleted Member]

@eyemblacksheep very well articulated. To be in competition with one’s self instead of competing with others allows for continual self growth. And over the long run, it’s what many lady’s find attractive, even if they don’t immediately recognize it.

[ey****]

at the risk of Columbo'ing

and another thing....

when people talk about numbers they go with the assumption she has to chose one.    She does not.

It doesn't matter if it 100 men to a woman, 5 men, or 5 women to a man.  There is no obligation for her to do anything with any of them (and, often forgot, vice versa) 

There was a time in history where she DID have to chose one, and that is only really recent history, because if she did not then she could not get a bank account, or a home, or so on - and would be working in an office or some such as a joke spinster and people going "what is wrong with her?" we're only really going back to the 1970s and early 80s for this.   So the true dynamic shift is one that... she doesn't have to lower standards or settle for mediocre.

If you are a good Dominant, or a good sub, or a good whatever - then you do not need to rush to the door to tell her ahead of the others claiming the same.   

[Deleted Member]

1 hour ago, eyemblacksheep said:

A lot of the problems is simple.

A lot of men are gross.

But not only gross, that they lack a self awareness and will look at reasons beyond their reasonable control for their failure.   For example, blaming ratio's or number games or whatever which is all horrifically objectifying and lacks the crux of the problem.

Men are obsessed about ratios and numbers games rather than making themselves more appealing.   

Imagine, if you would, using the example of the munch - thankfully most munches here are not like that - where a new lady turns up and there's a bunch of guys all fawning over her, pushing each other out the way trying to be the one to get there first and corner her and so on - and it's actually pretty predatory behaviour. 

There's many ways she could feel about this, a lot might depend on her motivations of coming to the munch - but given there's a lot of newbie nerves, she might find this overpowering, too much - and she certainly would not find it flattering, knowing the same guys will be doing it to the next newbie.

To be honest, if she is considering play at some point in the future, pretty much all of those guys are hoisting up red flags.  The person at the munch who is more likely to do some form of play with her in the future is probably the one who makes her feel welcome without being pushy, who she can sit and talk with without it feeling like there's a dickwaving contest.  At one of our munches there was a lady who turned up and left with a guy, and she left with him cos his first approach wasn't to push everyone out the way to talk with her and they connected organically

A lot of the same is true for online.  Everyone knows there are guys who sit waiting for new profiles to try to be amongst the first to contact them, and, particularly if the conversation is poor - it doesn't stand out, it's something which can actually be overwhelming for some people and also, it's not really flattering when they know you are doing exactly the same to the next person who signs up.

And that's also predatory behaviour.  

What happens again depends on the mindset, there is an assumption that being on a site like this that she'll want to meet someone as quickly as possible - but a lot of people weigh up things in time, but certainly feeling overawed or overwhelmed, especially by a lot of poor messages (she's still working out what she wants to put on her profile and getting 'hey' messages) and, like.... 

people say it's 100 guys to a woman, which is far from true - but even if it was true it's the same 100 men who keep failing.  Cos they don't learn.

They just repeat the same mistakes and blame the ratio or weird dynamics rather than stepping back and being, "Hold on, I'm I unwittingly part of the problem here" 

 

😩❤️Well said!!!

[Deleted Member]

So the true dynamic shift is one that... she doesn't have to lower standards or settle for mediocre.
If you are a good Dominant, or a good sub, or a good whatever - then you do not need to rush to the door to tell her ahead of the others claiming the same.

^^^ THIS RIGHT HERE ^^^

[ey****]

37 minutes ago, Daddy_Emo said:

@eyemblacksheep very well articulated. To be in competition with one’s self instead of competing with others allows for continual self growth. And over the long run, it’s what many lady’s find attractive, even if they don’t immediately recognize it.

yes! that's just it

the only competition we should be in is with ourselves, and our past selves.  To continue to be better than we were.

[ge****]

23 minutes ago, Daddy_Emo said:

So the true dynamic shift is one that... she doesn't have to lower standards or settle for mediocre.
If you are a good Dominant, or a good sub, or a good whatever - then you do not need to rush to the door to tell her ahead of the others claiming the same.

^^^ THIS RIGHT HERE ^^^

Indeed - but watch for the rush of responses saying how hard it is to get attention because of all the other guys "ruining" it for them, and how they never get responses because there are so many people messaging the object of their affection etc etc blah de blah de blah 🙄

[Du****]

“The solution”? A “new cutie”? This whole post is making me uncomfortable already. Yikes.

[Deleted Member]

@gemini_man why do you care what other guys say?

[Deleted Member]

@DuchessFeuille I get it. The root of it tends to be primal and predatory. But the discussion of which I look at in a positive light. Open discussion about a topic in which is uncomfortable leads to a better COMMEN definition of a public dynamic.

[ey****]

18 minutes ago, gemini_man said:

Indeed - but watch for the rush of responses saying how hard it is to get attention because of all the other guys "ruining" it for them, and how they never get responses because there are so many people messaging the object of their affection etc etc blah de blah de blah 🙄

a few years ago I had this problem.

I was certain that I "wasn't like those creeps" but thought, by design, I'm going to get assumed to be and dragged in with "those creeps" 

and sure, having what you feel is a perfectly good message deleted cos she happened to get a lot might suck, but, there's more to stuff than that.

I was in a discussion group once, and I mentioned a foot fetish, and one of the ladies looked really surprised, "But you're not a creep" and I don't think that was a fair comment, but, her ONLY experiences with guys with foot fetishes were with those who had been creepy.  For me to stand out above those, I, ahem, simply had to talk to her like a human and a person and I'd already stood out ahead of the guys in her inbox, or anyone who had approached her ogling her feet 

I still generally feel that passive connections are massively underrated.  There are so many variables at play when you cold contact someone.  But the bar to stand out is often surprisingly low. 

[Deleted Member]

2 hours ago, YourFangtasy said:

Personally I identify as a sub leaning switch but I have seen what you are referring to. I pretty female sub comes in and any non pretty or non female subs are all of a sudden invisible, in fact I’m the 6 months I was able to attend munches and events the only activities I got to participate in were a primal night and a try new things night. However no one was interested in me as a sub. They only wanted the stereotypical pretty female subs it seems.

That is so awful, and had to experience this. My heart goes out to you.💖 I experienced similar, but differently. As a ***ager, in Asian culture I was considered not skinny enough, and did not have the standard Asian beauty with the white skin. Now, I live in a country everybody is curvy. I try to think positive and laugh at it.😂

[ge****]

12 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

a few years ago I had this problem.

I was certain that I "wasn't like those creeps" but thought, by design, I'm going to get assumed to be and dragged in with "those creeps" 

and sure, having what you feel is a perfectly good message deleted cos she happened to get a lot might suck, but, there's more to stuff than that.

I was in a discussion group once, and I mentioned a foot fetish, and one of the ladies looked really surprised, "But you're not a creep" and I don't think that was a fair comment, but, her ONLY experiences with guys with foot fetishes were with those who had been creepy.  For me to stand out above those, I, ahem, simply had to talk to her like a human and a person and I'd already stood out ahead of the guys in her inbox, or anyone who had approached her ogling her feet 

I still generally feel that passive connections are massively underrated.  There are so many variables at play when you cold contact someone.  But the bar to stand out is often surprisingly low. 

Oh trust me I know and don't think that way in the slightest - heck I don't even send unsolicited messages!! The only group I place myself in is a group of one, and always has been the case.
.
As you say, it's not that difficult to stand out, you don't even have to try too hard (in fact trying too hard appears to be part of the problem for some) it's about being yourself, treating others not as a fetish object but as a person first and foremost and that really is about it.

[ge****]

40 minutes ago, Daddy_Emo said:

@gemini_man why do you care what other guys say?

@Daddy_Emo

Who said I cared?
.
Personally I couldn't give a stuff what other guys say other than feeling a level of shame/sorrow for the poor recipients of some of what they think is acceptable to send.
.
My post was purely ironic

[CopperKnob]

5 hours ago, TheHornedGod said:

There’s nothing unusual about this dynamic. When it comes to sex, men are typically concerned with quantity while women are concerned with quality. Along with that, when are hypergamous, meaning they are concerned with attracting the most suitable mate possible, hence there preference of quality over quantity.

The education gap, the wage gap and everything else that's come about as a result of societies moving towards gender equality has pretty much ended hypergamy, plenty of research available online, some even ***r reviewed