A dynamic flaw in the program?

[Fu****]

Society

[Am****]

If you're interested I am.a native English speaker, but i wrote without filter.
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I confess that I am surprised by some of the comments that seem almost agitated at me personally for simply describing how I perceive the situation and asking for opinions about it.
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As mentioned in the OP at a real munch the solution i choose is to leave before this "horny meat market" experience (or the moment i see it forming).
When the other guys stop chatting only to focus on the group's one remaining girl.
I really don't understand why doing this is bad, nor why i shouldn't call it a solution.
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Competition? No, I'm not competing with any of you, not in my mind. I generally think of (and tell my vanilla friends) about how warm and welcoming the kink kommunity is. Prior to writing this.
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Sharing is caring and caring is kind.

[Ar****]

1 hour ago, AmstelDom said:

I confess that I am surprised by some of the comments that seem almost agitated at me personally for simply describing how I perceive the situation and asking for opinions about it.

Thing is, you forgot to mention in your OP that what you were saying was simply how you interpret - perceive - the situation. If you'd begun by making it clear that this was an opinion piece, I think you would have seen less "agitation".

Instead of doing that you posted a string of highly questionable, sweeping statements about people as fact and with nothing to back up your claims, beginning with the vast majority of men being "nothing more" than Dominant and women being predominantly Switch or submissive, through the attitudes and intentions of men at munches - thanks also for explaining to us what FetLife is, that wasn't patronising at all - on to effectively stating that you think everybody else at any munch you go to is a pisshead with poor judgement who i) automatically drinks alcohol, ii) either can't hold said alcohol or doesn't know when to stop, and iii) would never be able to provide consent if they wanted to, as well as in the case of men certainly iv) only there to stalk and catch prey.... I'm not saying you intended to come across as smug or superior nor am I having a go, but frankly when you say presumptive things about strangers in such a context, that's what happens.

I didn't comment when I first saw this post because I try to avoid posts which wind me up. I'm commenting now because I believe you genuinely want help understanding why some people have responded the way they have and I'm hoping to provide some insight. My reflex response was to be annoyed right from the moment I read that first line you wrote - not just because of it being inherently untrue, but because even in the case of myself (a male who does identify as a Dominant) that doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of who or what I identify as. It wouldn't even be anywhere near the top of the list of who I am... there are so many things which make me who I am and so to read the implication that I was "nothing more" felt pretty insulting and disrespectful not just to me but to half of humanity (and your second line to the other half). I don't think you meant it to read that way - but can you see how it did? Why making the sorts of comments you did without context got people's backs up?

I'm not sure if you tried to establish that what you wrote was opinion by calling your opening fact anecdotal, it confused the heck out of me and is where I suspect some of the confusion about language arose. Admittedly I still don't get it. Something can either be a statement, or an anecdote. Something can be either an opinion, or a fact. And I'm lost as to which of these you're saying the opening part of your OP is.

[Am****]

Nope, even now I read it back I still see my confusion and the unknown qualities of humans. Saying one thing and doing the other.
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The experiences I've had with munches across Europe (with alcohol) have been as described, maybe I see it wrong.
There's nothing bad about being wrong provided that I have an open mind.
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Another thread on here about message etiquette, has also been very useful and eye opening.
So thanks to anyone who expressed an opinion.
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I am reminded of a quote: "Offence is taken, not given"
It was not my intent to offend, condescend or patronise. I don't know what other people know nor when my "knowledge" contradicts theirs.

[ey****]

I think with munches - and I am going to be very opinionated here

There are good munches and bad munches and good organisers and weak organisers

and perceptions can be perceptions and are not always it seems especially if you visit places as a tourist rather than a regular it doesn't always give the full picture (though sometimes visiting as a tourist can be good - you become blissfully unaware of any dramas or hearsay or so on)

If a munch does have a gender imbalance, that's not necessarily a problem.  Especially since munches are not hook up events.   It is a problem if this becomes off-putting to women or if any new woman is then buzzed around by the barflys.  

I think it is then of course on the munch organiser to step in to say that isn't really how to greet someone or make them feel welcome.  This is something easier in person than online - which is probably why *most* of the events I've been to tell a much different story to online : I don't do headcounts but certainly ratios are kinda less weighted.

(this is before we even get into the gendered pricing which often affects swinging or femdom clubs) 

If an event has an imbalance because it is not really welcoming to women; it's a bad event. Because there is stuff they can do to control this - including stressing that it is for social, not hook up.  Even if a lot of people do go on to play or partner with people they met via munches.

If it has an imbalance because of how it is - then - that's not necessarily the symptoms of a bad event - but obviously has to make sure it does what it can to be a positive environment if more women start or wish to attend.

Websites are a bit more complex - but nearly every "paid feature" that men complain about is something to kinda try to reduce the negative experience that women signing up receive. 

[Cu****]

If you are going to a munch to hunt for a sub you are going for the wrong reason. Over here munches are get together of like minded people not meat markets. You would be soooo booted, excluded and blacklisted for that. As for the rest of your post. Everyone has said it.

[Bo****]

Speaking of meat markets, a repeating theme I'm seeing on this platform is people being very untacktful in how they disagree with somebody publicly.

[Hi****]

Not here! I'm pretty much all switch, leaning slightly to dominate except I PERSONALLY looking to be subbed because it's something I've not been able to explore fully an end up leading.

[Am****]

I was trying to draw a parallel with a real life munch for comparison. Different munches have different vibes and intents.
To say one is wrong feels very close to kink shaming.
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This i feel is related to the discussion on Message Etiquette.
If simply saying "Hi, i exist and would like to talk to you" isn't an acceptable standard for an opening message (and I know why having definitely spammed a repeating message on PoF back in 2010).
Then the opener is obviously required to take the fist step and put some effort in.
If the recipient then having read the message, checked out your profile decides that the sender isn't even worth a "No thank you" this flips the power dynamic on its end.
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Unless we completely and accurately scrub the pseudodoms from the community I don't see a solution other than to discuss it and maybe change the attitude toward opening messages.
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Also whilst noone likes a psuedo-dom they are sometimes psuedo from a position of ignorance rather than malice.
I always say: "There is nothing wrong with ignorance provided you have an open mind"

[fe****]

I just started my account here less than a minute ago, your post is the first thing i see. It’s interesting. My experience and take on what you’re talking about is that society and these apps, as you have described, really do seem to create that dynamic… men are dom, women submissive. In my real life experience I find myself as such, more often than not, disappointed by men and their lack of “rising” to that occasion, if you will. What i have assumed was natural, nature, primordial.. isn’t really what I’ve encountered.

So more to the point, yes.. i agree that it appears that there are gender roles set in place, but behind the curtains, where it really counts, I find that the reality differs, and is thereby disappointing.

I could could go on and on about my theories here, but for sake of brevity, will simply say that.

[Bo****]

On 10/9/2022 at 2:53 AM, femme888 said:

So more to the point, yes.. i agree that it appears that there are gender roles set in place, but behind the curtains, where it really counts, I find that the reality differs, and is thereby disappointing.

I think that echoes very well with many social expectations that we pick up from society