How to differentiate between skittish subs and time wasters?

[Silken_Tears]

I enjoy bring inexperienced subs into the lifestyle because I love the wonder as they discover something new about themselves. With this, though, comes the danger of encountering potential submissives who are shy and nervous about entering the lifestyle. How do you separate those why are shy and need gentle bringing on, from those who are playing with your time? I want to be understanding and give the benefit of the doubt, but I am also tired of being messed about.

[typhoon2]

Try a scene where you Top them instead of Dominating them. Smaller-scale, less pressure, focussing on what they seek to get out of it. Essentially it's trialling D/s rather than leaping straight in, since submitting is quite a step compared to a T/b play session.

[CopperKnob]

Time and patience, earn their trust and respect. Keep talking to them. Ask the right questions. If they're skittish/nervous going straight into a "scene" isn't the answer regardless whether you Top or Dominate them. All that's going to achieve is a runner.

[Pl****]

This honestly seems like a cost of doing business, and I find some of your phrasing a bit concerning. I understand you don't want to waste your time, but the bottom line is this isn't for everybody, and some people aren't going to know until they try it. I can't tell you how many times I've heard people say "I thought I was gay/straight until I was face to face with a dick/pussy." I thought I'd love skydiving until I'd jumped out of the plane and was bored the whole way down. If this happened to me, I don't think I'd ever assume somebody was wasting my time, and considering your frustration, it wouldn't surprise me if your partners could pick up on how much this bothers you and feel pressured, which isn't going to do you or them any favors. 

I enjoy being someone's first experience as well, but it would never even occur to me to be upset if it turned out they weren't into it. No matter the experience level of our partners, consent can be revoked at any time, and we should all be perfectly comfortable with that, whether it happens once or a thousand times. If you're this unhappy with your success rate with rookies, you might consider sticking primarily with vets for a while. 

[4R****]

Define what you mean by "time wasters".

I've talked to hundreds of "newbies" over the years. I've spent countless hours sharing experience, giving guidance, working through what they may or may not be into, talking through ***s, showing them how to find more information, putting them in touch with others who are experts in their field and basically helping them find their way. Sometimes, on rare occasions I may have ended up doing a scene or two with them myself and other times they've decided that the lifestyle is not for them. More commonly I've just spent my time being a support, someone to give reassurance and on occasion, someone to turn to when things go wrong. All of this not only helps them, but it gives me experiences to take away too and not once have I ever considered that I've had my time wasted - even when someone walks away.

Introducing newbies is not about rushing to get physical with them and if that's your sole purpose for introducing a newbie then you really should stop and have a think about the predatory behaviour being displayed. Maybe do some research on Frenzy and even consider getting yourself a mentor. It might also be a good idea for you to research "buyer's remorse" as those who are in a rush are also at high risk of being a victim of it. 

Ultimately If you're concerned about whether a newbie is "wasting your time" then you seriously need to consider your motives for being involved with them in the first place!

[ey****]

I think if you particularly enjoy working with inexperienced subs  then you need to actually understand inexperienced subs!

 

The first is that of course they may have different ideas about what submission looks like and some of their ideas might just come from what they've read or been told which.... doesn't actually work for them also.   There's some stuff where people like the idea, but in reality it's different.    (I watched a video the other day about being feminised and cucked and I got off on it - but this is not something I would want to do at all in reality.  In reality, what I like is very different to what I watch) 

 

There is also a difference between someone who is deliberately wasting your time and someone who will seem like a waste of your time - if you are dealing with a lot who are inexperienced then a lot will find their reality might be different to what they first thought and that is something you have to accept - that more will ultimately be a waste of your time than won't be.

[Sl****]

Just ask them too.. say you don’t like wasting time so you need to know these things etc etc? If they don’t then tell them to come back when they do

[Silken_Tears]

Apologies, my phrasing is wrong. When i say time wasters I mean people who are playing with the idea of bdsm but it's a fantasy - they are apt to up and vanish without warning. Then maybe come back for a while, vanish again. Chat with you and then block. 

 

People can do this out of anxiety - beginning with kink can be scary - but others do it bc they just want to flirt with the idea, and I end up just being used. 

[4R****]

1 minute ago, Silken_Tears said:

Apologies, my phrasing is wrong. When i say time wasters I mean people who are playing with the idea of bdsm but it's a fantasy - they are apt to up and vanish without warning. Then maybe come back for a while, vanish again. Chat with you and then block. 

 

People can do this out of anxiety - beginning with kink can be scary - but others do it bc they just want to flirt with the idea, and I end up just being used. 

You're either equipped to deal with newbies or you're not. It can take weeks, months or even years for someone to feel comfortable and if you push someone before they are ready by showing any kind of frustration, you can make them 'run'. It takes patience and understanding and is not something that can be rushed. 

I still don't see them as time wasters and my comments above still stand. 

[ey****]

the problem can often be there is no clear way to tell the difference

but some that might help

I think if the person wants to constantly turn talk to their fetishes, fantasies or "what we will do" then there is a good chance they're looking on talk to get off on

if someone seems to be genuinely listening to what you have to say, while also accepting another way might work for them, while also showing evidence of doing their own research - then they might just be inexperienced

Even someone who is not deliberately a time waster, but is still more work than necessary, is likely wasting your time indirectly.

[CopperKnob]

17 minutes ago, Silken_Tears said:

Apologies, my phrasing is wrong. When i say time wasters I mean people who are playing with the idea of bdsm but it's a fantasy - they are apt to up and vanish without warning. Then maybe come back for a while, vanish again. Chat with you and then block. 

 

People can do this out of anxiety - beginning with kink can be scary - but others do it bc they just want to flirt with the idea, and I end up just being used. 

You know, I joined Fet about 2yrs ago as a newbie and, it was extremely overwhelming. Not just the kink aspect but also the online factors.
And yeah, i started chatting to someone here but it got the the point that it was too much and I left for a couple of months. I needed that time to gather my own thoughts and settle them in my head. If I hadn't of taken that time out, who knows what would have happened. When you're new and you're struggling with the idea of things, particularly D/s, you can't add a new relationship all you'd achieve is hurt feelings, for both parties

[Deleted Member]

You guys don't get the main issue is with scammers or fake subs. Lots of people here are fake and just chatting. I don't mind being patient with a sub, it's meeting fake subs that you train and guide. Time for meet up they block you or admin removes their account for being fake

[CopperKnob]

2 minutes ago, bratuser said:

You guys don't get the main issue is with scammers or fake subs. Lots of people here are fake and just chatting. I don't mind being patient with a sub, it's meeting fake subs that you train and guide. Time for meet up they block you or admin removes their account for being fake

Why are you spending your time "training and guiding fake subs"? Or, is that simply the determination you make when they decline to meet you IRL?
Maybe it's a communication issue?

[4R****]

16 minutes ago, bratuser said:

You guys don't get the main issue is with scammers or fake subs. Lots of people here are fake and just chatting. I don't mind being patient with a sub, it's meeting fake subs that you train and guide. Time for meet up they block you or admin removes their account for being fake

Please don’t tell me what I do or don’t get. Proper vetting will expose these scammers or fakes within a few messages. If you’re not vetting before you’ve invested a lot of time into someone then more fool you. Fake accounts are usually blocked within hours of appearing on this site so if you’re trying to meet someone that quickly then that in itself raises alarm bells. If people are blocking you when you’ve suggested meeting in real life, it suggests you’re trying to move way too quickly.

[Sl****]

44 minutes ago, Silken_Tears said:

Apologies, my phrasing is wrong. When i say time wasters I mean people who are playing with the idea of bdsm but it's a fantasy - they are apt to up and vanish without warning. Then maybe come back for a while, vanish again. Chat with you and then block. 

 

People can do this out of anxiety - beginning with kink can be scary - but others do it bc they just want to flirt with the idea, and I end up just being used. 

Your precious time is to not be wasted. You can even get them to sign a contract and that will scare away the people who just want to mess you around. Actually that really will stop you from having time wasters.

If they can’t sign a fair and just contract sharing their details and all, then there’s no point.

You get them to sign it on the day you meet them so you can gauge their sense of person too

[CopperKnob]

6 minutes ago, jak1401 said:

Your precious time is to not be wasted. You can even get them to sign a contract and that will scare away the people who just want to mess you around. Actually that really will stop you from having time wasters.

If they can’t sign a fair and just contract sharing their details and all, then there’s no point.

You get them to sign it on the day you meet them so you can gauge their sense of person too

Eh? Regardless as to the fact that a "contract" not being legally binding, I'd still not sign one on the basis that it has absolutely no meaning behind it. I'd consider anyone raising the topic of a "contract" to be a Christian Grey wannabe AKA a "fake".

[4R****]

40 minutes ago, jak1401 said:

Your precious time is to not be wasted. You can even get them to sign a contract and that will scare away the people who just want to mess you around. Actually that really will stop you from having time wasters.

If they can’t sign a fair and just contract sharing their details and all, then there’s no point.

You get them to sign it on the day you meet them so you can gauge their sense of person too

WOAH! where did this talk of contracts come from? Please tell me you're being sarcastic and this was meant as a joke, which if it is then it's really been lost in translation. If it isn't, then your comments are worrying. 

 

[Sl****]

2 hours ago, 4RCH said:

WOAH! where did this talk of contracts come from? Please tell me you're being sarcastic and this was meant as a joke, which if it is then it's really been lost in translation. If it isn't, then your comments are worrying. 

 

I dunno I feel like it’s a really really good way to determine if people would not waste your time or not. Like yea it’s not legally binding but it’s more of a.. “I’m committing to this with this” etc. But as a good measure to take that extra step into a form of agreement laid out in writing adds a sense of more commitment.

Don’t get me wrong it’s not to be able to sue anyone or wherever it’s just some kind of milestone/ extra step to filter out people

[4R****]

16 minutes ago, jak1401 said:

I dunno I feel like it’s a really really good way to determine if people would not waste your time or not. Like yea it’s not legally binding but it’s more of a.. “I’m committing to this with this” etc. But as a good measure to take that extra step into a form of agreement laid out in writing adds a sense of more commitment.

Don’t get me wrong it’s not to be able to sue anyone or wherever it’s just some kind of milestone/ extra step to filter out people

Let me just paraphrase this to ensure I've completely understood - your suggestion is that experienced Dominants should ask people who are just starting out in their journey of kinky discovery sign a document committing themselves to a named individual when they have absolutely no idea what or who they are committing to. Despite the fact that said document is not binding in any way whatsoever. You think the best way to introduce someone to the world of BDSM that is built on the foundations of trust is to trap them with a misleading document - Have I understood that correctly?

Edited December 24, 2022 by 4RCH

[Sl****]

8 minutes ago, 4RCH said:

Let me just paraphrase this to ensure I've completely understood - your suggestion is that experienced Dominants should ask people who are just starting out in their journey of kinky discovery sign a document committing themselves to a named individual when they have absolutely no idea what or who they are committing to. Despite the fact that said document is not binding in any way whatsoever. You think the best way to introduce someone to the world of BDSM that is built on the foundations of trust is to trap them with a misleading document - Have I understood that correctly?

Hahaha no that’s not what I mean. I’m speaking about time wasters. Either they find out they want to do something on the basis of what they are comfortable with, and then commit with that for signing something.

Or they just wait until they do.

If they really are completely brand new and just starting out, then you’re gonna struggle if you form attachments with them etc.

What the person said in this post was that they kept on disappearing and stuff. That means they aren’t super new. That’s a time waster and you can avoid that simply by putting a paper in front of them and seeing if they’ll disappear forever or go with it

[4R****]

2 minutes ago, jak1401 said:

What the person said in this post was that they kept on disappearing and stuff. That means they aren’t super new. That’s a time waster and you can avoid that simply by putting a paper in front of them and seeing if they’ll disappear forever or go with it

Nope, you really can't. If the person is genuine and you stick a contract in front of them then you're likely to freak them out. A piece of paper means nothing to people who are just beginning, even if they are a few months in, because they haven't yet learned the value that is put on agreements in this lifestyle. In addition, if someone decides the kink world is not for them, then a piece of paper isn't going to stop them leaving. And as for scammers and fakes, well they will sign it and still do what they are going to do anyway. So whilst I understand where you are coming from, you'd actually be setting yourself up for a whole world of hurt. Vetting and moving slowly really is the only way to weed out the fakes and flakes, because they get bored, whilst those who are genuine, will happily take their time to learn. 

[ey****]

yeah - so the concept of contracts in general aren't really for everyone anyway

someone who is intentionally timewasting may well use this as an excuse to 'negotiate' the contract and of course use any clauses that trigger the type of punishment they want to their advantage

whereas someone genuinely skittish is going to find this daunting and run a mile.

it doesn't help separate anyone