Ma**** Posted January 11, 2023 Posted January 11, 2023 4 hours ago, 4RCH said: Then you are being disrespectful, not submissive and are topping from the bottom. A submissive doesn't "act up" because they are not getting their perceived needs met, they communicate. This is exactly the kind of behaviour that has got the 'brat' a bad name in the community and why brats are not generally recognised as being submissives. Which is why many Dominants won't deal with any submissive identifying as a brat. It's also why I wrote this: https://www.fetish.com/topic/30378-are-brats-using-the-wrong-title/ Topping from the bottom isn't a real thing. Brats are recognized as being submissive, just because it's not something that you or a category of doms doesnt like doesn't mean anything. I agree that communication would just be better but I'm pretty sure everyone has gotten to a point where communication just isn't feasible because they are so upset. Brats have gotten a bad name in the community because doms have this idealistic view of how they want us to act and when we wont they get pssed off. Ive never been a brat to someone who I didnt belong to because thats wrong. Again its all an emotional thing. And f being disrespectful, I dunno, then get with someone who you think is. Just because you don't agree with what I wrote doesn't mean anything. I wrote from a brats perspective on the question, just because my answer wasn't what you wanted doesn't make it any less true, at least for me in my personal experience for myself and my other bratty friends.
Ma**** Posted January 11, 2023 Posted January 11, 2023 4 hours ago, ropebratlittle4u said: This! Although, meaning no criticism to you at all MayWitt, I think it's still important for subs to hold themselves accountable for proper and healthy communication, and voicing unmet needs. Yes of course, always important and better to communicate. In certain head spaces I feel it does get trickier tho. Sometimes you don't even know what you need, all you know is that something emotionally is off. It's only ever gotten bad when I can't figure out what I need in order to get back to my baseline, what I need to ask for. A hug is usually always a good start, then it gets much easier. And of course this should be explained before playing has even begun! But when I've talked to my bratty and more emotionally sub friends this is almost always the reason for outbursts. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it's super common and usually the reason
4R**** Posted January 11, 2023 Posted January 11, 2023 3 hours ago, MayWitt said: Topping from the bottom isn't a real thing. This sentence alone emphasises your inexperience. 3 hours ago, MayWitt said: Brats have gotten a bad name in the community because doms have this idealistic view of how they want us to act and when we wont they get pssed off. I appreciate that you are new to this community whilst I have been living and breathing this lifestyle for more than 30 years and in turn watched the influx and subsequent rejection of brats, have advocated for them, and am the very proud owner of one - so I understand EXACTLY why brats have got a bad name and it's certainly not as you've described. If your Dominant is not meeting your needs, then you need to have a respectful conversation with them BEFORE it gets to the point where you are acting out due to frustration. Incidentally, most s-types who can't communicate for whatever reason, in my experience, seem to go quiet until they regain their composure and are able to communicate again. I acknowledge and am a huge advocate of the fact that everyone has the right to live the lifestyle in the way they wish and I will stand and argue for the right for people to identify as they wish. However there is a very simple point here - if you are "kicking off", "acting up", "refusing to co-operate" or "obey" your Dominant, for any reason other than negotiated playfulness, then you are not submitting and therefore are not being a submissive. And so, if you are making the argument that the unruly, rude and disruptive behaviour you display when you are not getting your perceived needs met is what the community should expect from a brat, then you are also adding weight to the argument that a brat is NOT a submissive. So which way would you like this to go?
CopperKnob Posted January 11, 2023 Posted January 11, 2023 I think, that with regards to bratting, different people will have different reasons for it and will display different behaviours. It will all mean something different to the individual However, with that said and from my perspective/experience, I would never brat out of "frustration". For me, there is a difference between bratting to get "needs" met and bratting due to a communication breakdown. Bratting, in my opinion, is acceptable only within agreed parameters of the relationship eg, consented to. I've only ever bratted for "fun" and I've stopped when a partner has said, "actually, I can't manage this right now/i'm not in the right headspace". If, as it's been described above, someone's got to the point of frustration and are unable to communicate that in any other way, I would suggest that a partner giving the above response would only create more "frustration"/further "bratting" (in quotation marks because I don't think it is bratting but poor/disrespectful behaviour) and that for me, just doesn't work, simply because you've gone past the point of being able to communicate effectively but also, because at that point or, in the moment, it becomes non consensual Just my two cents for what it's worth 🤷♀️
Deleted Member Posted January 11, 2023 Author Posted January 11, 2023 I have had Doms previously tell me to "stop bratting" or commented "there's the brat" when I've pushed back. I've had to say to them very clearly this is not bratting, this is me expressing a boundary or explaining to you that you have x, y or z. I agree with @copperknob that bratting is consensual, understood by both parties and stops when the D says not right now. I've never engaged in defiant bratting (no, make me etc) so I have no knowledge of how that might go. At the risk of opening an enormous can of worms, is the "acting out" bratting more connected with Littles who might feel they can't adequately communicate their feelings at that moment?
CopperKnob Posted January 11, 2023 Posted January 11, 2023 44 minutes ago, Lady_Char said: I have had Doms previously tell me to "stop bratting" or commented "there's the brat" when I've pushed back. I've had to say to them very clearly this is not bratting, this is me expressing a boundary or explaining to you that you have x, y or z. I agree with @copperknob that bratting is consensual, understood by both parties and stops when the D says not right now. I've never engaged in defiant bratting (no, make me etc) so I have no knowledge of how that might go. At the risk of opening an enormous can of worms, is the "acting out" bratting more connected with Littles who might feel they can't adequately communicate their feelings at that moment? And those Doms who've said that kinda thing to me "here comes the brat" etc are, those that I'm not in a relationship with and who I've not had the conversation with about, this is why I brat, this is what it's about etc for the simple reason we aren't in a relationship and, due to that response, we're unlikely to be dependent upon the tone/context. I think again, it highlights the misconception of what brats are about and the fact that there's a lot of misunderstanding. It doesn't help that there may be some individuals "hiding" behind the brat label.
4R**** Posted January 11, 2023 Posted January 11, 2023 14 minutes ago, CopperKnob said: I think again, it highlights the misconception of what brats are about and the fact that there's a lot of misunderstanding. Unfortunately there is and that's a real shame because done in the right way, brattiness is a lot of fun. As is out-bratting the brat and getting revenge - but you gotta have a lot of patience and a great sense of humour IMO. 17 minutes ago, CopperKnob said: It doesn't help that there may be some individuals "hiding" behind the brat label. There are, and it's a classic case of the few ruining it for the many.
CopperKnob Posted January 11, 2023 Posted January 11, 2023 19 minutes ago, 4RCH said: There are, and it's a classic case of the few ruining it for the many. You can try to out brat a brat but, the real truth is that we want you to think that's what you've "achieved" when the whole time it's really what we wanted to achieve 😂😜
Ar**** Posted January 11, 2023 Posted January 11, 2023 2 hours ago, CopperKnob said: You can try to out brat a brat but, the real truth is that we want you to think that's what you've "achieved" when the whole time it's really what we wanted to achieve 😂😜 But we want you to think you've achieved us thinking we've achieved what we want to achieve when it's what you wanted to achieve... 😜😂
CopperKnob Posted January 11, 2023 Posted January 11, 2023 34 minutes ago, Aranhis said: But we want you to think you've achieved us thinking we've achieved what we want to achieve when it's what you wanted to achieve... 😜😂 Either way, we've still achieved that which we set out to achieve. So, we still win? It's rhetorical, the answer's obvious 😜😂
Ar**** Posted January 12, 2023 Posted January 12, 2023 1 hour ago, CopperKnob said: Either way, we've still achieved that which we set out to achieve. So, we still win? It's rhetorical, the answer's obvious 😜😂 I'm gonna say we all win, just like it ought to be 😉😝
CopperKnob Posted January 12, 2023 Posted January 12, 2023 6 hours ago, Aranhis said: I'm gonna say we all win, just like it ought to be 😉😝 Do you have splinters? 🤔
4R**** Posted January 12, 2023 Posted January 12, 2023 8 hours ago, Aranhis said: But we want you to think you've achieved us thinking we've achieved what we want to achieve when it's what you wanted to achieve... 😜😂 That made my head hurt!
Deleted Member Posted January 12, 2023 Author Posted January 12, 2023 December 29, 2022, 4RCH said: Oh I do love discussions on brats, and bratting in general, although I still have an issue with the name 'brat' and always will have (search the forum for "Are Brats Using The Wrong Title" for more info on this). I do love the playfulness that comes with a brat, and I'm the proud owner of one myself. She often thinks she has the upper hand only to find out that I've out-bratted her and she's walked straight into my trap. Is that so?! Brave words Sir. From my perspective, it’s a game, and as long as it’s give and take, it’s enjoyable. But. You need to build up a rapport so that when that limit is being approached, or you actually want your brat to listen, there needs to be a clear signal and communication. If it’s no longer enjoyable for both of you, it’s got out of hand already.
Ar**** Posted January 12, 2023 Posted January 12, 2023 4 hours ago, CopperKnob said: Do you have splinters? 🤔 Why, did you want some? 👀
CopperKnob Posted January 12, 2023 Posted January 12, 2023 34 minutes ago, Aranhis said: Why, did you want some? 👀 Oooof fighting talk! 😂
4R**** Posted January 12, 2023 Posted January 12, 2023 6 hours ago, Quiltykitten said: From my perspective, it’s a game, and as long as it’s give and take, it’s enjoyable. But. You need to build up a rapport so that when that limit is being approached, or you actually want your brat to listen, there needs to be a clear signal and communication. If it’s no longer enjoyable for both of you, it’s got out of hand already. Absolutely right. 6 hours ago, Quiltykitten said: Brave words Sir. Would you expect anything different?
Al**** Posted January 13, 2023 Posted January 13, 2023 Oh i forgot to add something, edging exists so yeah. Edging while being tied up. *
Deleted Member Posted January 13, 2023 Author Posted January 13, 2023 Maybe they won’t listen because they want to be punished?
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