Can I say no?

[Se****]

I once discussed with a friend (who happens to be a Dom, not that it’s massively relevant) that I feel bad or guilty when I say no to anyone about anything. I feel like I’ve let them down or disappointed them in some way. 

This person suggested that perhaps I’m a “pleaser” - anything I do is with the view of pleasing others. 

This didn’t and doesn’t sit right with me. Not that there’s anything wrong with being a pleaser per se, but should I feel I can’t say no because of the way I am? I don’t think so. And should I feel bad about saying no because I’m not doing what someone else wants or expects? Again no. Surely I should be able to do things because I WANT to not because I have an inbuilt urge to make people happy/not cause conflict. 

The thing is, I’ve done this for years and years and felt ridiculous guilt when I say no. 

I have lived in a relationship where I have repeatedly opened my legs just to avoid conflict and keep the peace for my kids. Eventually, I have begun to learn to stick up for myself and say no. I have learned that I have that right. But it sure as hell doesn’t make my life easier. 

Apparently not saying yes every time is the reason that men cheat and the reason marriages end. This does not sit comfortably with me at all. 

I don’t want someone to be intimate with me because they feel obliged. I don’t want them to feel that any time I approach them or show affection that it is purely sexual. I don’t want them to feel that at a certain time of night they must put out. And I most certainly don’t want them to feel they can’t say no! Why would you want that?

Love X

[Deleted Member]

You're perfectly in your right to say no. No means no, unless a cnc role play where boundarys are agreed by both parties.

I can understand the need to keep the peace and just allow it, but this is a bad thing to to in a relationship as it will compound the problem everyime and then the rot will set in.

Discussions on wants and needs are paramount, but that's easier said than done isn't it...

Hugs 🤗

[Ta****]

yes, consent can be withdrawn for any reason at any time. Their feelings are irrelevant if you feel uncomfortable or change your mind at ANY time

[Deleted Member]

18 minutes ago, Tatted_Taylor said:

yes, consent can be withdrawn for any reason at any time. Their feelings are irrelevant if you feel uncomfortable or change your mind at ANY time

Exactly. There is a "Does she want a cup of tea" analogy, I've copied it below...


If you're still struggling with consent, just imagine instead of initiating sex, you're making them a cup of tea. You say, "Hey, would you like a cup of tea?" And they go, "Oh, my God, I would love a cup of tea. Thank you." Then you know they want a cup of tea. If you say, "Hey, would you like a cup of tea?" And they're like, "No, um, you know, I'm not really sure." Then you could make the a cup of tea or not, but, be aware, they might not drink it. And if they don't drink it, then, and this is the important part, don't make them drink it. Just because you made it doesn't mean you are entitled to watch them drink it. And if they say, "No, thank you," then don't make them tea at all. Just don't make them tea. Don't make them drink tea. Don't get annoyed at them for not wanting tea. They just don't want tea, OK?

They might say, "Yes, please, that's kind of you." And then when the tea arrives, they actually don't want the tea at all. Sure, that's kind of annoying as you've gone all the effort of making the tea, but they remain under no obligation to drink the tea. They did want tea, now they don't. Some people change their mind in the time that it takes to boil the kettle, brew the tea, and add the milk. And it's OK for people to change their mind. And you are still not entitled to watch them drink it. And if they're ***, don't make them tea. *** people don't want tea and they can't answer the question, "Do you want tea?" because they're ***.

Maybe they were conscious when you asked them if they wanted tea and they said, "Yes." But in the time it took you to boil the kettle, brew the tea, and add the milk, they are now ***. You should just put the tea down. Make sure the *** person is safe. And this is the important part, again, don't make them drink the tea. They said yes then, sure, but *** people don't want tea. If someone said yes to tea, started drinking it, and then passed out before they'd finished it, don't keep on pouring it down their throat. Take the tea away. Make sure they're safe because *** people don't want tea. Trust me on this.

If someone said yes to tea around your house last Saturday, that doesn't mean they want you to make them tea all the time. They don't want you to come around to their place unexpectedly, and make them tea, and *** them to drink it, going "but you want a tea last week" or to wake up to find you pouring tea down their throat, going "but you wanted tea last night." If you can understand how completely ludicrous it is to *** people to have tea when they don't want tea and you're able to understand when people don't want tea, then how hard is it to understand it when it comes to sex?

Whether it's tea or sex, consent is everything. And, on that note, I'm going to go make myself a cup of tea.

[Deleted Member]

Tea because im British... 👌☕

[Se****]

4 minutes ago, lonelybeard said:

Tea because im British... 👌☕

I’ve seen that analogy before. I love it. 

I do think there’s a difference between being a pleaser and withdrawing consent though. 

I think my biggest issue is that people ought to be able to say no (to anything, but definitely something as intimate as sex) without being made to feel bad, causing an atmosphere or being told that they’re in the wrong. 

[Zela]

The element in your question that sticks out for me is when you say "because of the way I am". What that infers is that you are that way and there's no way to change that because that' may be the easy way ou or you don't have the confidence to stand up for yourself and affirm what YOU desire. Please, don't think that it's what I think is the case, I'm simply thinking out loud.

I was always a people pleaser because I was brought up to be ashamed for "being selfish" whenever I voiced what I wanted. With much therapy and work on myself, I learned that we are socialized that way to maintain control. Over time, I started finding my voice and build my confidence so I no longer feel guilty when asserting myself and decided FOR MYSELF what I will and will not do. In fact, it is immensely freeing (like you, I have been emotionally ***d and cheated on by past partners).

You may not like this but consider going to see a therapist to talk this through and dismantle this notion that you *must* comply with everyone else's wishes. You are a person with a heart, mind and soul that deserves to be heard and respected but that won't happen if you're not your own advocate.

[Te****]

Maybe this will help you to quit feeling guilty:
You must be happy. Some people are happy slapping and some getting slapped.
You feel happy pleasing and you don't like saying no. So if you are a pleaser, embrace it and enjoy it. The big question here comes when, by doing something that you enjoy, you end up feeling bad!
It is a 2 levels option, not just one. You are a pleaser but you must learn to say no and learn when you can be a pleaser and when to stand your ground.
You don't enjoy saying no but you enjoy even less putting up with crap? Say no live happily. Cheers!

[Te****]

Say no AND live happily... ;)

[Se****]

8 minutes ago, Tethra_erebo said:

Maybe this will help you to quit feeling guilty:
You must be happy. Some people are happy slapping and some getting slapped.
You feel happy pleasing and you don't like saying no. So if you are a pleaser, embrace it and enjoy it. The big question here comes when, by doing something that you enjoy, you end up feeling bad!
It is a 2 levels option, not just one. You are a pleaser but you must learn to say no and learn when you can be a pleaser and when to stand your ground.
You don't enjoy saying no but you enjoy even less putting up with crap? Say no live happily. Cheers!

I think perhaps the title of the piece was misleading. 

I know I can say no. 

I know that the feelings I have are mine to deal with. 

HOWEVER, should I/does anyone deserve to be made to feel bad for saying no to anything? Should they receive threats or be “not spoken to” or receive angry actions/responses because they have said no. 

These actions are part of the reason I might say yes in the future even when I really want to say no. 

Nobody should be made to feel bad for saying no, they shouldn’t be ***ful of the repercussions because honestly if someone is saying yes purely because they’re scared of saying no then that ISN’T consent. 

And the stupidest thing of all is that I KNOW all of this yet I can’t apply it to myself logically and see what is happening in my own life x

[Ar****]

If it helps, it would please me immensely if next time you want to say no to somebody, you do just that and then don't feel any guilt or remorse for it. In fact, I'm going to ask that of you right here and now.

😝😉

[SophieSubSlut11]

And remember, no is a full sentence ❤️

[Se****]

9 minutes ago, Aranhis said:

If it helps, it would please me immensely if next time you want to say no to somebody, you do just that and then don't feel any guilt or remorse for it. In fact, I'm going to ask that of you right here and now.

😝😉

Hahaha thank you that made me feel damn good. 

(I also want to say “yes Sir” 🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️)

[fo****]

I understand exactly what you mean as I am a "pleaser" and have an ex wife who only married me because she wanted kids, not cuz she loved me. But every time, no matter how exhausted I was, how badly I needed sleep, I would say yes and let her use me until I passed out exhausted. I say use because that is what it was. She knew it upset me to say no and that I desperately needed sleep but would still get the ropes out. You can and should say no if it is for the wrong reason you want to say yes. My ex almost killed me because she knew I couldn't say no (constant exhaustion caused me to become sick) and nobody should have to go through that so please, say no whenever you need/want to.

[CopperKnob]

I can be a people pleaser. Not all the time but I have a "need" for people to think well of me, to be my friend and that I've done the best I can. That however is really circumstantial on who the person is and the situation. I completely understand why in some situations we're amenable to things we don't want to do to avoid conflict etc and neither of it is healthy. I think that amongst some people there's also a sense that as stypes we should say "yes" and I don't agree.
I also don't agree that people cheat because the other person said no/en***d boundaries, that's a cop out for the other person and, to a degree, gaslighting.
Learning to say "no" is a skill and often takes bravery. I'd say practise it in "safe" settings where you know it's going to be accepted

[ge****]

Thing is, it's not just about saying "no", it's also about doing things the way you'd like, rather than just going along with what someone else wants either because you don't feel you can say no to them, or because you want to please them, or simply to avoid conflict.
.
It can even be about not speaking your mind about a situation where you truly believe your opinion to be a valid one.
.
I've spent large chunks of my life "going along with it" to the detriment of myself and often for the reasons above.
.
Now of course there's got to be give and take, but when it's almost always give it can have a very wearing effect.
.
Trouble is after 50+ years of doing so, it's also a very hard habit to break - I try when I can, or gravitate towards people I know will allow me to have a say and take account of what I want as much as what they do - but even then it can be so ingrained that I find myself going with the flow anyway.

[ki****]

I agree with most of what has been said. Finding it hard to say no is very common. My ability to say no has improved overtime but it's an ongoing challenge. I think that the more you feel confident about yourself, the easier it is to say no. So working on self confidence is key to improving.
For me, I have far more respect for someone who says no, rather than just goes along with a request. So I use that to help me say no, by remembering how I would feel from the other person's point of view.
From a kink perspective, I would worry if a sub I was playing with wasn't able to say no. Trust works both ways, a sub needs to trust her dom that if she says no, she means no. A dom needs to trust his sub will say no if the play doesn't feel right or good . Surely this is a keystone requirement to good bdsm practice.

[us****]

It is not easy to say no, but you owe to yourself to say it when it is appropriate. You need to have boundaries, and those can change over time. The trick is to find someone who will listen to you.

[sm****]

Anyone has the right to say no, especially if something doesn't sit or feel right.

If someone takes umbrage, they are in the wrong, so full honest communication and understanding is required from both.

It can be a habit even in normal vanilla life to say "yes" or agree with everything to avoid any situations or ill feelings.  We all have done this at points in our lives.

[Th****]

As someone who is absolutely a people-pleaser and feels an almost compulsive need to make sure that the people around me are comfortable and happy, many times sacrificing my own happiness in the process, and then wondering why I'm so miserable lol, I will tell you that I learned the hard way that saying no is not only healthy but necessary, and the people who have a problem with it aren't respecting your boundaries. Boundaries are also necessary, and I absolutely learned that the hard way too. Be kind to yourself by mastering the art of "no". It will work wonders to not only weed out people in your life who don't respect you, but when you command that sort of respect, people who recognize your worth will automatically be drawn to it

[sm****]

7 minutes ago, Th4tFl0w3rL4dy said:

As someone who is absolutely a people-pleaser and feels an almost compulsive need to make sure that the people around me are comfortable and happy, many times sacrificing my own happiness in the process, and then wondering why I'm so miserable lol, I will tell you that I learned the hard way that saying no is not only healthy but necessary, and the people who have a problem with it aren't respecting your boundaries. Boundaries are also necessary, and I absolutely learned that the hard way too. Be kind to yourself by mastering the art of "no". It will work wonders to not only weed out people in your life who don't respect you, but when you command that sort of respect, people who recognize your worth will automatically be drawn to it

totally agree, ive learned to do this and found out who my real friends are and more happier in my social life...that and i like being a sarcastic  miserable old git to people  I enjoy that very much for some reason these days hahaha

[ThumperG]

5 hours ago, Tatted_Taylor said:

yes, consent can be withdrawn for any reason at any time. Their feelings are irrelevant if you feel uncomfortable or change your mind at ANY time

You're absolutely right, people need to be flexible and if things change and feel hanky and things need to move backwards a bit and pause if not stop for awhile until there's a  reset. 

[Ceejayuk]

As you said "Nobody should be made to feel bad for saying no, they shouldn’t be ***ful of the repercussions because honestly if someone is saying yes purely because they’re scared of saying no then that ISN’T consent. "

Your partner should not make you feel like this, you should be able to feel totally safe in any situation, if you want to say no, you should feel comfortable at being able to say no withouth worrying about how your partner will take it.

It is easier said than done, one issue is if you have been in a relationship where you have allowed your partner to have their way, even if you were not really wanting too, it gives them an expectation, wrongly,  at how things work in the relationship. Then trying to change the dynamic after years of a certain lifestyle, i can see why they would see that as, unreasonably maybe, you being the problem, as for them, that is simply how it has been and that there is something wrong with you or that you are now being unreasonable, when really there has been an underlying issue for sometime, that only one of you saw.

I have seen this first hand where I know someone who was also a pleaser, bent over backwards to keep their partner happy, however after years they realised they were doing most of the work in trying to keep the other happy, to keep the relationship working and while not trying to change things per se, were simply getting worn out as such and tried to point out how they felt and that they were kind of getting tired at constantly essentially carrying the relationship as such. Their partner however, being used to the other acting a certain way, felt they were then being awkward, perhaps their feelings had changed and being slightly unhappy at even a few small changes, as they were kind of used to being treat a certain way. It caused a few issues, and arguments (some that I witnessed first hand) though they are working on it (kids being in the mix helps in terms of them wanting to work on things, I suspect if not for the kids though, they may not be together now). 

The fauit is a lack of communication and boundaries.  Again I can see why the pleaser, possibley being scared of the repercussions, would be hesitant at bringing up any problems, however to play devils advocate, If one person is in the dark about any issues, its hard to blame them when things come to a head. You could say perhaps they should have realised, again though if that is simply what they are used to, they may not see the issue.

At the end of the day as I say Communication is the key. If you are not happy, you need to open a dialogue with your partner to explain things, even if initially it might cause friction. Its not fair on one person being happy in the relation and the other not being happy.

[iB****]

Thank you for sharing @fatefuldestiny.
I’d like to share my thoughts back, and only an opinion from an outside looking in.

No is as justified an answer to things as yes. And if someone ever doesn’t take no for an answer; whether it’s sexual or otherwise, depending on how that involves your integrity and self-worth, there are people who we may need to distance from ourselves if they make us question our motives.

Understanding that not everything someone expects from you will be met with a ‘yes’ seems to be problematic for THEM, because like spoiled ***, they have a fit. If you say no, (not being political here) that’s absolutely your right as a human. If they can’t accept that, then you don’t need them. Your not any one persons to claim as their own (strictly speaking in terms of ‘ownership’) so your answers to people aren’t meant to make them happy (as in being a ‘pleaser’ as you mentioned).

As a reminder from person to person, you’re allowed to say how you feel, regardless of other people. Keep your head high and enjoy all the kinks, fetishes, and thrills your life has to offer.

[Se****]

Excellent example of people not understanding what I’m saying in my inbox:  

person - “looking good baby. Don’t say no to me”

me - BLOCK. 

FFS