TFTB or experienced Sub?

[St****]

What is your view on this?

As a sub do you feel you have the control to set your boundaries, define your limits and express your dislike for something your Dom does? Or do you feel it's your place to accept the basic boundaries of hard limits and safe words, only stepping out of dynamic when limits have been pushed?

As a Dom do you find it attractive to have your vetting sub lay out all their boundaries and have a larger say in how the dynamic goes? Or do you prefer to start simple and explore and push the boundaries as the dynamic grows?

[ge****]

Any submissive should *always* without question be free to set their boundaries and limits, likes and dislikes etc at any time, even change them either over time or dependent on circumstances etc - just as any dominant should be able to do the same - *anyone* who tries to suggest otherwise is frankly someone to be avoided.

[kitty63]

As a sub, i strive for obedience within my hard limits, accepting that a Dom might choose to push my boundaries, and i will try to avoid using my safeword if possible

[Ne****]

8 minutes ago, gemini_man said:

Any submissive should *always* without question be free to set their boundaries and limits, likes and dislikes etc at any time, even change them either over time or dependent on circumstances etc - just as any dominant should be able to do the same - *anyone* who tries to suggest otherwise is frankly someone to be avoided.

Precisely why I don’t currently have a Dom (or subs) in my life. Respect ≠ pushing, violating, being unconcerned, not consulting with, just telling me what to do and expecting me to comply….

[St****]

8 minutes ago, gemini_man said:

Any submissive should *always* without question be free to set their boundaries and limits, likes and dislikes etc at any time, even change them either over time or dependent on circumstances etc - just as any dominant should be able to do the same - *anyone* who tries to suggest otherwise is frankly someone to be avoided.

As a Sub with that view how long do you vet your potential Dom? Or had your dynamic come after the relationship was established?

[St****]

5 minutes ago, kitty63 said:

As a sub, i strive for obedience within my hard limits, accepting that a Dom might choose to push my boundaries, and i will try to avoid using my safeword if possible

When you have had to use your safe word, do you feel like it's within your role to reset that limit or do you expect your Dom to keep that in the list of limits on their own without further conversation?

[kitty63]

i would definitely agree that a Dom or sub who has no respect for limits and disregards boundaries is not someone i would choose to know. i suppose i’m lucky in that everyone i have “played with” has been someone i know i can trust, and who i know has taken my wellbeing into consideration

[kitty63]

i have only had to use my safeword once. The Dom in question took that into consideration and recalibrated Their approach accordingly, after taking the time i was okay. Had They not done so, i would have been surprised and troubled

[ge****]

34 minutes ago, Starrcrossed said:

As a Sub with that view how long do you vet your potential Dom? Or had your dynamic come after the relationship was established?

I don't "vet" per se, more take time to get to know people and build mutual trust and respect before getting involved with them, so any vetting happens naturally as a part of that - and I certainly wouldn't get involved with anyone unless a conversation about boundaries and limits had been had and I had a level of certainty would be respected.
.
Fortunately as a male submissive, it tends not to be an issue - sadly for you ladies there are a lot of male dominants who don't understand the principles of basic respect, boundaries, limits and indeed consent.

[Do****]

In my opinion we are two adults wanting to play within a D:s dynamic. So I need to know what they want to do, want to try, and where their boundaries are. I consider them alongside my wants and boundaries. Then our play lies within that. Even with CNC both parties get to say where their hard limits are. I can’t think of any scenario where the sub shouldn’t state what they want and don’t want. Even if they want to be made to do something they don’t like, it’s still a want. Then within those boundaries set by both parties, they get to use a safe word if they have reached their limit on something they consented to.

[Do****]

Or indeed a safe word can be used if they changed their mind. It’s possible to consent to trying something and in doing it, decide you actually don’t want to.

[Do****]

I would say topping from the bottom is different. It’s not saying what they want/ don’t want and then leaving it to the Domme to manage the interaction. It’s telling the Domme what to do/ wear/ how to say things/ how to behave etc. The sub cannot control the Domme. The Domme is in control at the end of the day.

[Th****]

1 hour ago, gemini_man said:

Any submissive should *always* without question be free to set their boundaries and limits, likes and dislikes etc at any time, even change them either over time or dependent on circumstances etc - just as any dominant should be able to do the same - *anyone* who tries to suggest otherwise is frankly someone to be avoided.

This. Absolutely. 

If someone is telling you that having preferences, boundaries, soft and hard limits is topping from the bottom they're either 1) very under or misinformed or 2) they're manipulating you with guilt and shame in order to get what they want regardless of your wellbeing. 

 

In either case they aren't safe to play with, especially the latter. That's *not* what tftb is. Tbtb is telling the top or D types what they should do, or trying to push for something different mid scene after negotiations have taken place. This doesn't include wanting the removal of something or for something to stop as consent is always revocable.

[ge****]

Now I've figured out what TFTB is (thanks @DommeDelight and @ThaliaVirago 😉) my earlier points still stand - but there's a world of difference between TFTB and setting limits, boundaries etc.
.
The first is trying to set an agenda and control things as a submissive - the second is simply putting caveats around what can/can't happen once control is given.

[Th****]

15 minutes ago, gemini_man said:

Now I've figured out what TFTB is (thanks @DommeDelight and @ThaliaVirago 😉) my earlier points still stand - but there's a world of difference between TFTB and setting limits, boundaries etc.
.
The first is trying to set an agenda and control things as a submissive - the second is simply putting caveats around what can/can't happen once control is given.

I struggled too until the assist from DD. But my brain struggles with acronyms on the regular, even with known ones. 🙄 😂

[Deleted Member]

Simplified, my intent is to fully relinquish control. I can't do that without establishing rapport through mutual trust and active communication. I'm a proponent for understanding the whys behind our kinks, and I do my best to explain mine once I'm comfortable with a prospective dom. If there are areas with which I want to test or push my limits, I'll state that. The ideal is optimizing pleasure for all parties, so I'm less likely to seek out a dom whose preferred pleasure doesn't coincide with what I enjoy giving or receiving.

When someone successfully taps into my subspace, the act of giving optimal pleasure is nearly more important than receiving pleasure for me. As such, anything I'm willing to "endure" is within my threshold based on the limits I've communicated. These are the moments when mental pleasure outweighs physical pleasure.

I'm on the softer side of d/s culture, so I haven't had to use safe words, just body language. My doms have been very aware of what I can and can't handle, and they'll do their best to keep me in a state of pleasure even if I insist otherwise for the sake of their pleasure. That's the level of trust and understanding I seek in my d/s relationship. It takes time and discussion, but it's worth it.

[De****]

A key part of aftercare is conversation about the scene. Something could happen that I wouldn’t use my safe word on or outside of my hard limits, but I don’t really like it. That’s the point that should bring things up. For example, my Dom bite my ear hard. I didn’t use my safe word, but after the scene I brought up that I didn’t like it. Submissives should express feelings about things and should never purposely try not use a safe word. A Dom that knows their submissive will use a safe word freely when needed knows that they can let lose in a scene. Most Dom’s want their submissives to enjoy the scene as well. If submissives are holding back on safe words or not expressing dislikes they could just be making it through to please their Doms without truly enjoying themselves. Who wants that? It should be good for you both.

[Th****]

20 minutes ago, DenverKitten said:

Submissives should express feelings about things and should never purposely try not use a safe word. A Dom that knows their submissive will use a safe word freely when needed knows that they can let lose in a scene.

📢 This!! 👆👆👆 This is so important... EVERYONE read that again, like 5 times at least.

I'll keep saying this forever, trust goes both ways. I need to be able to trust that my bottom or submissive will communicate what's not ok, or if they need a pause and check in. I *WANT* them to comfortably and freely use their safe words or whatever communication system we've agreed on if they feel they need to, even a little bit. It's also my responsibility to learn and know them well enough to use good judgment when it seems like something may be off or they're reaching their limit even when they * haven't* expressed it. Tops and Dom(mes) should actually care about their play partners' well beings. 

 

After all... it's kind of hard to play with broken toys. 😏

[kitty63]

i think for me as a sub, and as an individual in “real life”, there’s a sense of achievement that i’m addicted to when i’ve pleased or made someone happy. I’ve dealt with that in the real world. i need to keep it in check as a sub, though. Fortunately, it’s never been an issue because of the close emotional bond i had (and still have in one instance) with the Doms i have been submissive to

[Deleted Member]

I certainly believe that entering into any sub/Dom relationship requires an agreement on how things would work. The true power of a submissive is in the choosing the situation they are entering into. The boundaries, or lack of boundaries, is certainly something that should be agreed on ahead of time. Personally, I would always want my sub to feel free to share their thoughts with me as an ongoing thing. That's just me.

[Th****]

8 hours ago, FalconLord54 said:

I certainly believe that entering into any sub/Dom relationship requires an agreement on how things would work. The true power of a submissive is in the choosing the situation they are entering into. The boundaries, or lack of boundaries, is certainly something that should be agreed on ahead of time. Personally, I would always want my sub to feel free to share their thoughts with me as an ongoing thing. That's just me.

Agreed. 

[he****]

Absolutely

[St****]

I absolutely love the opinions here. It's good to see so many on the same side, I wish more would speak up from the other side of it though.

The reason to ask this is how often I'm told that because I believe submission is earned after boundaries are set I'm told I just try to top from the bottom. When in session I become non verbal, and can't direct anyway, which is why I trust has to be earned and boundaries set.

I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking it's right for me to define my boundaries before letting someone command me.

[Ne****]

4 minutes ago, Starrcrossed said:

I absolutely love the opinions here. It's good to see so many on the same side, I wish more would speak up from the other side of it though.

The reason to ask this is how often I'm told that because I believe submission is earned after boundaries are set I'm told I just try to top from the bottom. When in session I become non verbal, and can't direct anyway, which is why I trust has to be earned and boundaries set.

I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking it's right for me to define my boundaries before letting someone command me.

🤘🏼 how annoying (at best) to be told I’m topping from the bottom.. and when I’m told this because I HAVE boundaries and am still a human with their own mind….

[STRICTDOM1961]

On 10/29/2023 at 8:08 AM, Starrcrossed said:

What is your view on this?

As a sub do you feel you have the control to set your boundaries, define your limits and express your dislike for something your Dom does? Or do you feel it's your place to accept the basic boundaries of hard limits and safe words, only stepping out of dynamic when limits have been pushed?

As a Dom do you find it attractive to have your vetting sub lay out all their boundaries and have a larger say in how the dynamic goes? Or do you prefer to start simple and explore and push the boundaries as the dynamic grows?

i think is the only way a sub to set boundries an how she wants her bdsm life be i always ask a girls boundries before even moving forward i think boundries is very important for the sub to submit to one shes interested in as the Doms also so theres no surprise on either end