Ghosting - Let’s be Open and Honest Instead

[Th****]

7 hours ago, Aranhis said:

Because when you project and assume the worst from everyone who doesn't fall within a certain rule set, it often isn't you who dodges a bullet when you walk away. It's them.

I also want to specifically highlight this. Though the whole comment is excellent. 

[Ar****]

8 hours ago, Shilo66 said:

LOL... way to go to twist a message. 

Nothing toxic here, just the cold hard facts. If it's okay for her to ghost, then it's okay for him to too. You can't justify ghosting for one group but deny it for another group on a site like this.

I've made it perfectly clear in my message, several times, that if she wants to walk away anytime, then she's perfectly entitled to, but if you, the guy, sense that something is off, then you too are equally within your rights to walk away too. And like her, you don't need to give any excuses. 

I'm simply saying to the softer guys, not to ignore their gut instincts when they sense they're being played, because they'll usually be right. The tougher guys don't ignore their Spidey Senses and that's why we don't get ghosted as much, because we'll pull away when something's not right.

Too many guys on here have ended up being the victims of ghosting because they've fought against their better instincts and judgements. 

As I've mentioned in my previous message, there are way too many people here who are just here for the attention they couldn't otherwise get in the Vanilla world, so why feed their egos, follow your gut instincts and deny them their ego food for the day. 

Everyone agrees and say to women that if they're not feeling it, or it feels unsafe for them, then just walk away, so why is it any different to give the guys the same advice???

Some of these things you're arguing with me about I've agreed with you in my comment. I plainly said don't be a mug. I said absolutely don't chase.

You say if it's okay for her to ghost it's okay for him to too. You ask me why it is different to give guys the same advice we agree and say to women. I ask you - where did I say it isn't okay to give that advice, and where did I say it wasn't okay for guys to ghost? Who is twisting who's message, exactly?

You absolutely did not "simply say" that softer guys should not ignore their gut instincts. You gave out advice to them which told them to walk away if they weren't having video/voice calls after a certain (short) period. You told these men what their potential matches are thinking, feeling, about the trauma you've assigned to them. Almost all of womankind. And some of those men will lap up every word of that, assuming that every single woman they aren't calling after two weeks is messed up. They might even ignore their own gut instincts and miss out on something good because they've listened to you and your advice.

In some instances you will be completely right. Some people will string you along, mess you around, play you. Most genuinely aren't like that; what I did was attempt to offer a more balanced and objective way of looking at the issue.

[Shilo66]

5 hours ago, BelayaAkula said:

@shilo66 you have some right points however you also mention some points with different reasons in my perspective.

As my experience, voice chat or video chat is not a criteria. I just chatted with someone, and the person never ghosted me i traveled to another continent and country to meet. We met we spent time . After that, she also never ghosted me even though we only spent a couple days together.

About women having fboi selection you have realised certain points but the issue is not fboi situation only. The situation is in my perspective "all men are same" problem; i sort of the***utically spoken with a certain amount of women. What i realised was that each woman has their own selection/filtering criteria. Thus, they end up due to their filtering selection with the same type of men as result they think all men are the same because they did not choose other types.

When it comes to" too many men for each woman" issue about this is correct. In many societies at the world, there are more man than women so they just cut the communication and look for other men or another upgrade men if they already have one. But ghosting is not limited to women. Men also doing ghosting and its reason is not imbalance about women/men pool and it is also not about sex either . In my perspective, this issue is about people's culture level , integrity ,character, and about their self and environmental respect.

I saw it from first hand many times that peoples behavior over the internet, due to the ability to disconnect,is far different than real life. Because you can not disconnect from real life :>

Hi, I did say on my opening comment here that it was aimed at the guys, namely the newer, softer and inexperienced guys. 

Yes, women do get ghosted, that's never been in denial. 

I see a lot of men here posting how they've been ghosted after spending considerable time engaging with some of the ladies here.  I just want them to have then same advice that's given to women here, in that they should trust their instincts and if they feel / sense that something isn't right for them, that they can and should walk away, just like we'd advise women to do.

 

Edited February 17 by Shilo66

[Th****]

On 2/15/2024 at 9:44 AM, kok1069 said:

No, it's not that. Different site. I think she is just stringing me along as a backup. I read something the other day that said words without action is manipulation, which makes sense because, unfortunately, that's just what I'm used to. Either way, I'm just gonna let it go. If she comes around, she comes around, but I'm going to try not to invest anymore of myself into it. Thank you for your response.

Have you tried.... using words and actually talking to her about what's up? Having some type of clear and direct but also non accusatory discussion? 

The two of you may also have wildly different perceptions of what is or isn't going on between you. 

One of the main things that was so appealing to me about the kink/bdsm community was the supposed very clear and direct discussions that I heard all about. I've been greatly disappointed in my actual experiences however. 

*EVERYONE* could benefit from doing research on effective and nonviolent communication techniques. Stop thinking "well they should just know" and "I feel I've been clear". Because unless you've said the literal exact words for what you mean, you've not been clear. 

[Th****]

I'm so sick of seeing men speak over women on how and what women think and feel about any given subject as if they somehow know better than women do about our own thoughts, feelings and lived experiences. 

Edited February 17 by ThaliaV

[4R****]

10 hours ago, ThaliaV said:

*EVERYONE* could benefit from doing research on effective and nonviolent communication techniques. Stop thinking "well they should just know" and "I feel I've been clear". Because unless you've said the literal exact words for what you mean, you've not been clear. 

Couldn’t agree more!

[Shilo66]

18 hours ago, CopperKnob said:

I'll raise you your sweet shop and give you a muck heap.
.
When people start acting like decent human beings, with understanding and empathy towards others and stop game playing like this or, assuming ulterior intentions OLD will be better for all.
.
Take people at face value. Find the balance between feeling that you're being mugged off/strung along and being empathetic towards other people's own circumstances.
 

LOL... the comment below is what you said earlier in this thread to the OP.  Please show me exactly where the 'understanding and empathy towards others' is being displayed here?... can't quite see it myself... LOL. 

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I have no responsibility to anyone in the getting to know them stage. Why is that so difficult to understand. Its not a me problem, its a fact of life. If someone is giving me red flags then yep, it's their issue if I ghost them particularly when they come to the forums to whine about it.
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[Shilo66]

16 hours ago, ThaliaV said:

This is some of the most toxic load of baloney I've seen in a long while not to mention victim blaming. It's not someone's fault when they've been treated poorly because they "chose" that person. The shitty person is the one fully responsible for their own behavior and how they treat people, full stop. 

Yes, men outnumber women here and similar sites and in theory women might have quantity of options, but quality is scarce which more often than not has women choosing herself, her own peace, not choosing *anyone* and continuing to wait for someone with *genuine and authentic* basic human decency. 

As @Aranhis stated above many women want to interact as much as possible online first because it's about being able to demonstrate respect for very basic boundaries and to ensure the person they're interacting with is being genuine and authentic. People who *AREN'T* can't keep up their act and manipulative tactics forever and most often eventually slip so they'll likely then cease contact because the red flags appeared and men consistently prove that it's not safe to communicate rejection. 

Women aren't "waiting for someone better to come along" they're measuring whether or not being alone is the better choice. This is what so many *actual women* consistently discuss with each other and consistently observe amongst their ***rs. 

The bar is on the ground here fellas. Basic human decency, respect, empathy and consent. 

 

Hmmm, interesting, the below comment is what  @CopperKnob stated earlier in this thread... and I couldn't agree with her more, as it's very good advice for everyone to follow, and kinda echoes my own sentiments.... I can see on the original of this comment that you put a like on it too:

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Sometimes, I kindly show the person I'm no longer interested in prolonging the conversation by walking off and chatting to someone else. In fact, I have done it kink event or otherwise.
Again, no one owes you their time or n explanation. If sometime is giving me red flags I'll move on without either.

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Edited February 17 by Shilo66

[Shilo66]

12 hours ago, ThaliaV said:

I'm so sick of seeing men speak over women on how and what women think and feel about any given subject as if they somehow know better than women do about our own thoughts, feelings and lived experiences. 

Yep, I can empathise with how you feel, because I'm sick of seeing some women constantly portraying all men as the Devil Incarnate because they've had an unfortunate encounter with one or two. 

[kok1069]

12 hours ago, ThaliaV said:

Have you tried.... using words and actually talking to her about what's up? Having some type of clear and direct but also non accusatory discussion? 

The two of you may also have wildly different perceptions of what is or isn't going on between you. 

One of the main things that was so appealing to me about the kink/bdsm community was the supposed very clear and direct discussions that I heard all about. I've been greatly disappointed in my actual experiences however. 

*EVERYONE* could benefit from doing research on effective and nonviolent communication techniques. Stop thinking "well they should just know" and "I feel I've been clear". Because unless you've said the literal exact words for what you mean, you've not been clear. 

I have our last "conversation" 11 days ago I was ready to end it completely. I said this is how I feel and what I feel like is going on. If your not into me or you don't want this let's just call it what it is. I don't want to keep being left in the middle wondering what is what. She more or less said no thats not it all im crazy about you and I get worked up when we talk. Said she was just dealing with stuff. So yes I see both sides maybe she is maybe she's not, but I'm still in an uncomfortable place and all I can do it wait.

[kok1069]

12 hours ago, ThaliaV said:

I'm so sick of seeing men speak over women on how and what women think and feel about any given subject as if they somehow know better than women do about our own thoughts, feelings and lived experiences. 

I hope this isn't directed at me. It's not what I'm trying to do at all. The only reason I'm here awkwardly talking about my situation is because I'm looking for clarity or second opinion. However, this started with a genuine question I about being left unread. I'm not coming at you any type of either. I'm here for the community and the friendships. I don't want to or intend to be an a-hole.

[FETMOD-BD]

Ok this thread is starting to get waaaay off track. Let’s stop the sniping and get back to discussing the topic please. 

[as****]

Agree. If we don’t have trust and communication, might as well get back to vanilla and get jerked around

[CopperKnob]

4 hours ago, Shilo66 said:

LOL... the comment below is what you said earlier in this thread to the OP.  Please show me exactly where the 'understanding and empathy towards others' is being displayed here?... can't quite see it myself... LOL. 

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I have no responsibility to anyone in the getting to know them stage. Why is that so difficult to understand. Its not a me problem, its a fact of life. If someone is giving me red flags then yep, it's their issue if I ghost them particularly when they come to the forums to whine about it.
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You've taken two of my comments referring to two different sets of circumstances and suggesting that they share the same context.

[Th****]

4 hours ago, kok1069 said:

I hope this isn't directed at me. It's not what I'm trying to do at all. The only reason I'm here awkwardly talking about my situation is because I'm looking for clarity or second opinion. However, this started with a genuine question I about being left unread. I'm not coming at you any type of either. I'm here for the community and the friendships. I don't want to or intend to be an a-hole.

No, it's not directed at you at all.

So far, from what I've seen, I've gotten the impression you're acting in good faith, are new but genuinely open to learning and listening to others with an open mind. It's refreshing to see and I wish was the norm. 

[Shilo66]

18 hours ago, Aranhis said:

Some of these things you're arguing with me about I've agreed with you in my comment. I plainly said don't be a mug. I said absolutely don't chase.

You say if it's okay for her to ghost it's okay for him to too. You ask me why it is different to give guys the same advice we agree and say to women. I ask you - where did I say it isn't okay to give that advice, and where did I say it wasn't okay for guys to ghost? Who is twisting who's message, exactly?

You absolutely did not "simply say" that softer guys should not ignore their gut instincts. You gave out advice to them which told them to walk away if they weren't having video/voice calls after a certain (short) period. You told these men what their potential matches are thinking, feeling, about the trauma you've assigned to them. Almost all of womankind. And some of those men will lap up every word of that, assuming that every single woman they aren't calling after two weeks is messed up. They might even ignore their own gut instincts and miss out on something good because they've listened to you and your advice.

In some instances you will be completely right. Some people will string you along, mess you around, play you. Most genuinely aren't like that; what I did was attempt to offer a more balanced and objective way of looking at the issue.

 

In answer  to your question and keeping things on topic....

This comment below from @CopperKnob stated earlier in this thread.... every single day and twice on Sundays.

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Sometimes, I kindly show the person I'm no longer interested in prolonging the conversation by walking off and chatting to someone else. In fact, I have done it kink event or otherwise.
Again, no one owes you their time or n explanation. If sometime is giving me red flags I'll move on without either.

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...And, I couldn't agree with her more, because it echoes my own sentiments... which are, if you sense something's off, don't be afraid to just walk away, which is the advice we give to women, so I'm simply giving that same advice to men, especially those who are new, soft, or inexperienced, so as to reduce how much they get ghosted.

When the OP raised this Ghosting topic on Sunday 11/02/2024 , he got 154 likes in less than a week, which clearly shows how pertinent this topic is.  The OP asked for our thoughts about the subject, he did not ask for it to be subverted or twisted into something far removed from the topic as has been by some. He asked the question in a decent, pleasant way, and went to great lengths and answered many questions to clarify his interpretation of what he considered ghosting, but despite all that effort, some still went for him. 

Now, of those 154 likes, the vast majority are men, hence why I stated in my first comment here that my comment was aimed at men to tell them clearly that "If something is giving you red flags, walk away".... yes, I'm paraphrasing her quote.  

Some on this thread, have stated how much of an epidemic it appears to be, and how it seems to be on the rise, and they're right. It does appear to be on the rise, judging by how frequently these days we seem to be seeing post after post from a male or female talking about how they've been ghosted. In fact, there's one right now in the forum from a lady  about how she got ghosted after letting her guards down. 

Quite a few people on this thread have justified / given reasons for a Ghosting, but, as far as I'm aware, none apart from me, have given men any advice about how to reduce its recurrence and it happening to them.  To those reading this, I too used to think that Ghosting was abhorrent, until that is, I had to do some Ghosting myself for some of the reasons people have already mentioned on here. So now,  I accept that it is just one of the necessary evils of modern day dating reality that, unlike some, I try very hard not to do so often.

I feel that your advice about guys 'rising above' what I've stated regarding my advice to them, is wrong, because they were clearly doing just that and they still got ghosted. 

Regarding time frames to go from chatting, to video, to meeting. It doesn't matter if it's two weeks, two months, or two years for each stage, so long as it's a time frame that the guy is happy with.  For me, it's two weeks for each stage and it works just fine, for me.

What I don't want to see, is a guy being guilt tripped into going longer than he is comfortable with or would want to, because again, this is when the ghosting happens.  It's quite heartrending for me to read some of their stories on here, because you know they'll get very little sympathy and a lot of criticism, whereas a lady in the same situation, will often get quite the opposite, a lot of tea and sympathy regarding her plight.   

The ladies I've met using this timeframe, every one of them have been absolutely lovely and we still chat... and NO, I won't be providing any of their details. What happened between us stays between us. They were all on the same page as me, so to speak, and they didn't have trust issues or any mental scarring from previous ex partners. If they did, they hid it ***y well. They fully scrutinised me as much as I did to them, in fact even more so.... all because like me, they genuinely wanted to meet up. I'm not naive, so I'm fully aware and appreciative that compared to many others on here, I've been pretty lucky thus far.   

 

Edited February 17 by Shilo66

[ey****]

I saw a good meme earlier, actually - which... reminded me of this thread.

that it wasn't actually all that long ago where if you left the house, you were out/unavailable.  You might come home - and - depending on how long ago we go back... you check the post, there's a letter from a friend/penpal/whoever and you might respond immediately, or you might put it to one side to put together energy and effort... there might be messages on your answerphone and some you might ring back immediately, some later that night - some might not be so important to catch immediately

In the early days of email - you might go online and download any emails.  You would then write replies off line (when you got chance) and hit to send so they go to your outbox, and send when you next connect to the internet 

Nowadays - we are pretty much always contactable and that makes an assumption we're always available.  But, we're not, nor should we expect others to be.  

And if we are hovering around a little bit thinking "I can see you're online, please reply my message" this is kinda needy and can be harmful long term. 

[Th****]

On 2/17/2024 at 6:46 PM, eyemblacksheep said:

I saw a good meme earlier, actually - which... reminded me of this thread.

that it wasn't actually all that long ago where if you left the house, you were out/unavailable.  You might come home - and - depending on how long ago we go back... you check the post, there's a letter from a friend/penpal/whoever and you might respond immediately, or you might put it to one side to put together energy and effort... there might be messages on your answerphone and some you might ring back immediately, some later that night - some might not be so important to catch immediately

In the early days of email - you might go online and download any emails.  You would then write replies off line (when you got chance) and hit to send so they go to your outbox, and send when you next connect to the internet 

Nowadays - we are pretty much always contactable and that makes an assumption we're always available.  But, we're not, nor should we expect others to be.  

And if we are hovering around a little bit thinking "I can see you're online, please reply my message" this is kinda needy and can be harmful long term. 

👏👏👏

[an****]

Male or female, all of us in here are human beings and deserve to be treated with respect. If I am chatting with someone I expect they have a life and there may be breaks in the conversation. That being said, I also expect to be treated with courtesy. If I am not interested, I have found that saying “Sorry, I am not interested,” usually works quite well. I also appreciate someone telling me if they are not interested. If that doesn’t work, you can block them. Life goes on. Everybody doesn’t click.

[Pi****]

Obviously people have lives and jobs and conversations are not necessarily perpetual- unless they actually are. Meaning that you drop in and participate in the conversation from time to time. But let’s not pretend that we don’t have our phones on us 24 hours a day. If you start a conversation with me in earnest- then you say ok I’m headed to bed- to work- to dinner - whatever it is and end that part of the conversation. But what I don’t understand is guys who start talking- you talk to each other consistently for a couple days and then in the middle of the conversation without warning they just go dark. Then 2 weeks go by, or 2 months - whatever and they suddenly try to pick the conversation back up like they weren’t rude af. I’m not for that. When I say - wait who is this? Because I’ve deleted your chat by now since you clearly aren’t interested… they get all ***y. “Well I have a job” oh right you’re the only one. You have THE job. That’s a ghost. It’s rude. Period. There is no excuse for that- I won’t be treated as an afterthought: I’m out.

[CopperKnob]

2 hours ago, PillowPrincess1 said:

Obviously people have lives and jobs and conversations are not necessarily perpetual- unless they actually are. Meaning that you drop in and participate in the conversation from time to time. But let’s not pretend that we don’t have our phones on us 24 hours a day. If you start a conversation with me in earnest- then you say ok I’m headed to bed- to work- to dinner - whatever it is and end that part of the conversation. But what I don’t understand is guys who start talking- you talk to each other consistently for a couple days and then in the middle of the conversation without warning they just go dark. Then 2 weeks go by, or 2 months - whatever and they suddenly try to pick the conversation back up like they weren’t rude af. I’m not for that. When I say - wait who is this? Because I’ve deleted your chat by now since you clearly aren’t interested… they get all ***y. “Well I have a job” oh right you’re the only one. You have THE job. That’s a ghost. It’s rude. Period. There is no excuse for that- I won’t be treated as an afterthought: I’m out.

In fairness, I do work in environments that I can't wear a smartwatch let alone have a phone with me. Even a laptop for work purposes, I need to gain permission for. Granted, not everyone will work in those environments but, some of us do.
I'm not available 24/7 and I don't expect anyone else to be available 24/7 it's not healthy to be attached to our various technologies all the time. Real life is happening around us and we're missing out on it because of tech. Perhaps I'm old 🤷‍♀️
What I would add however is, for me, it very much depends on the context of the chat. There are people here I consider friends and we'll periodically drop in and out of conversation. Then there are those where we've gotten to the point of discussing meeting in real life who'll disappear for a few days without acknowledgement. Those are the ones that I will leave be because that's not my communication style.
We all have different needs when we're communicating and often that'll be dependent upon the type of relationship we're in or what we hope the relationship will develop into.
It may be rude but it's not ghosting as discussed above.

[Deleted Member]

I’m really surprised ghosting happens in this community. It’s so immature and spineless as well as being very rude.

[CopperKnob]

28 minutes ago, centralpark said:

I’m really surprised ghosting happens in this community. It’s so immature and spineless as well as being very rude.

I think, it's important to remember is that this 'world' is no different to any other 'world'
We're all human beings and it's clear that people have different definition as to what ghosting actually is.
Nevertheless, ghosting is absolutely necessary in certain circumstances, specifically around safety.

[ey****]

45 minutes ago, centralpark said:

I’m really surprised ghosting happens in this community. It’s so immature and spineless as well as being very rude.

the big problem is most of what gets called "ghosting" 

like, go on your inbox on any social network site and scroll through messages - if there's any where the other person sent the last message and you've not responded - are you ghosting?  and what about the other way?

and of course not. that's absurd. 

[ey****]

3 hours ago, PillowPrincess1 said:

But what I don’t understand is guys who start talking- you talk to each other consistently for a couple days and then in the middle of the conversation without warning they just go dark. Then 2 weeks go by, or 2 months - whatever and they suddenly try to pick the conversation back up like they weren’t rude af.

two likely reasons

one is that.... they'd intended to keep convo up - then something happened.  And then time passed and it got more and more awkward to reply, so they just came back with an "act naturally" 

the other is... they were talking to multiple people and one looked like it was going somewhere, it then didn't.