*** as a sub, what is "healthy"?

[Perv2000]

Hello people. I'm a bit "confused" about all this, as a sub. So maybe people can help with their insights. Since I was really young,I've had an obsession with BDSM. I think it came from really scary, old fashioned bullying female teachers, and my response to the *** of it. It was a long time before I dipped my toes in the water so to speak. But I did and now I wonder "what now". I'm into really brutal, degrading stuff. Psychological ***, being made to cry, lose control of my bladder during a beating and the *** of vanilla witnesses and things. Basically anything horrible and degrading incoluding ***d bi if I cant take a beating any more - even tho I feel physically sick at the sight of it on television. Now some would say "so what, whatever you enjoy". But I wonder if things could get too dark, too heavy. I mean, should I consider this to be healthy? Sometimes afterwards I think to myself "what a pervert"/"how pathetic". Like I'm angry with demeaning myself. So I think "ok I need another punishment". I mean, in a way, thats quite funny. But ofcourse its a "vicious spiral" too. I'm not sure if I want a BDSM spouse/relationship, as I think that would have an inevitable power transfer. In my daily life, I'm a  proud alpha male and I want my pervert side as... something separate from my day to day life. I also dabble in Domming female subs, sometimes as a reaction to my "shame" at my own submissiveness, I think (altho I am very much a sub not Dom). Again it all leaves me a little confused.

Anyway my questions are these:-

1)Is this healthy or unhealthy? How should I manage it

2)How do Dommes in particular view male subs?

3)How would you view a relationship with a man who had (what I think are) dark sub interests?

[BigPolly]

Just because you’re into BDSM it doesn’t mean you need to be in a relationship. I’ve been playing since I was 17, I’m now 44 yet none of my play mates have ever been part of a relationship. How we feel when we are turned I cannot be compared to how we feel once we have cum & the adrenaline stops causing a high. We can have the wildest fantasies when our mind is racing, I’d love to be strapped to a medical bed & fisted senseless by a big buxom latex beauty when im off on one or whipped until I bleed but that doesn’t mean when I go to my doctors I want him anywhere near me....it’s 2 different worlds, it’s not disgusting or wrong it’s just how our brains work. You’re completely normal. We are all perverts here that’s what makes us the most amazing community.

[BigPolly]

Just because you’re into BDSM it doesn’t mean you need to be in a relationship. I’ve been playing since I was 17, I’m now 44 yet none of my play mates have ever been part of a relationship. How we feel when we are turned I cannot be compared to how we feel once we have cum & the adrenaline stops causing a high. We can have the wildest fantasies when our mind is racing, I’d love to be strapped to a medical bed & fisted senseless by a big buxom latex beauty when im off on one or whipped until I bleed but that doesn’t mean when I go to my doctors I want him anywhere near me....it’s 2 different worlds, it’s not disgusting or wrong it’s just how our brains work. You’re completely normal. We are all perverts here that’s what makes us the most amazing community.

[Wo****]

10 hours ago, Perv2000 said:

1)Is this healthy or unhealthy? How should I manage it

2)How do Dommes in particular view male subs?

3)How would you view a relationship with a man who had (what I think are) dark sub interests?

If it's safe and consensual, it's healthy.

I'm a submissive so how Domme's feel about submissive, I don't know but I guess it's the same as how Dom's see subs. Hopefully with respect.

Dark sub interests? That's perspective. What you call dark could just be grey to me.

 

 

[Deleted Member]

Like you i feel the need to be owned and punished by a woman who doesn't love me and will do as she wants with me the more degrading and ***ful the better if she lets other women or men use me fine i may not enjoy it but that's my life it's what i was used to but sadly women like that are very hard to find

[Sweetcyn]

One good way to manage and learn about your desires is to join a BDSM club in your area. It just a thought. I am not a Domme so I cannot answer your questions, but I wish you well in your discoveries of yourself.

[Perv2000]

Thanks for your posts all. I probably miswrote one part. I've never seriously thought of living with a Domme. Firstly the Dommes I like are very different from the women I date.(My Dommes tend to be loud, bullying, sometimes muscular, usually tall. GFs always very feminine and gentle). But the is an awkward side to it. I mean going away on a work trip and arranging a session the day I leave thinking "oh the marks will be healed when I get back". That sort of thing, manouvering around stuff.

Secondly ok, its probably not physically harmful what I do. But how about psychologically? I mean is there a limit to what is "right" in terms of frequency of activity, what is done, the secrecy etc. Like carrying around the "shame" of my GF not knowing (or rather I assume she doesn't know!)

Finally, I'd be really interested to hear what Dommes both lifestyle and ProDomme view all of this.

And does anyone manage to have a BDSM lifestyle with a significant other. But at the same time keep that side of their lives firmly separated? Or do you find domination/submission/"bratting" etc creep over into everyday life, even into your relations with mutual friends?

Friends of mine, one is a sub and she is a Domme. The first time they were open about it I was really shocked. I pretended "it doesn't appeal to me". But I also wonder, can people somehow sense what someone is like/has an interest in  eg could they work out my secret interests?

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by Perv2000

[Perv2000]

23 hours ago, Sweetcyn said:

One good way to manage and learn about your desires is to join a BDSM club in your area. It just a thought. I am not a Domme so I cannot answer your questions, but I wish you well in your discoveries of yourself.

I've sort of wondered about that, munches and stuff. But I don't follow how it works. It seems that its all BDSM people meeting to be friends rather than doing stuff. They idea of chatting about football with some guys who like women to *** strapons into their mouths does feel pretty weird to me. Likewise, I'd feel a bit weird talking to women as "me" when they see the BDSM me. I mean BDSM clubs seem easier in a way, because everyone is "in character". If that makes sense.

Atleast, I assume people go to Munches etc as their "day to day selves rather than their BDSM selves?

Edited October 11, 2019 by Perv2000

[DarkNecessities]

Perv....from a Dom, and one 'Alpha male' to another... 1. It is absolutely a healthy way to work through your kinks if done in the right way. IMHO, all of us here have some sort of hangup, to a greater or lesser extent, that makes us enjoy the kinky stuff. I think it is VERY important for you to do 2 things: - find a Domme that is experienced in proper aftercare. You are going to be in a fragile place after a session until you have worked through some of these things. A good partner is important. - find a therapist. There are many kink-friendly therapists, but even a vanilla one would be fine. There are underlying issues you can work on, as well as becoming ok with the fact you like kink. S&M can be a good way to work through issues, but it should go along with therapy. Doing this does not make you weak or stupid. Going to the gym to improve your body is not stupid; going to a therapist to improve your mental/emotional health is not either. 2. Can't tell you :) 3. Speaking from the opposite perspective, I have had relationships with (female) subs who have had what they, or others, viewed as dark interests, or edge play interests. As long as it is all consensual, it doesn't cause harm to others, and does not cause serious harm to the participants, it's all good. There are many Doms (and I assume Dommes) that enjoy helping subs push boundaries and get off on helping them through the mind-fuck of enjoying dark and depraved things. And for the REALLY extreme things, remember some things can be explored and shared just as fantasies; you don't have to actually jump off that cliff. Sometimes, just walking along the edge with someone can be amazing. Good luck with your BDSM journey.

[Ve****]

This is a really interesting and open and honest post. I'm glad you feel able to address your feelings here. Most of what we experience as kink develops as an interest during adolescence (usually). We are ALL shaped by our interpersonal experiences particularly what we are exposed to as ***. These experiences are so varied between people that I really don't think that any particular kink that results should be a cause for shame. You mention the teachers you were exposed at school. As *** especially and ***s, we don't have the emotional skills to navigate difficult experiences. The emotional brain is still developing until your early twenties. There is a lot of emphasis on the affects of parenting but what about the effects of poor teaching also? If you think about how often we go to school, we probably spend more time with teachers than parents. If a child is exposed to 'bullying' over a long period of time, the child usually subconciously uses repression as a means to 'survive'. This means that the body uses a lot of energy to keep the effects of the difficult or prolonged experiences hidden. What I personally have experienced ( and also in my previous work in mental health) is that traumatic experiences can shape the emotional brain and consequently the sexual drives and desires we develop as ***s. Sometimes without our active control we respond to stimulus that excites us and we don't always know why. Often times in kink, we re experience traumatic events in a sexual way. This is the subconcious minds way of offering healing. In kink we can re imagine a scenario that caused us stress or trauma, we can turn the power dynamic on it's head and gain control of the 'trauma' by using it in roleplay. In scenes even as submissives I would argue that you have a lot more control than you think you do. Your limits dictate how far the domme can go with you. So you are actually re gaining control over something that hurt you. In that sense I would argue that it is an entirely healthy, sane and consenual way to process deep emotional hurts. You are not odd in any way. Lots of us have these desires but unfortunately, especially men, we are not conditioned to talk about how we feel. Just because you are alpha in daily life and in a relationship does not mean that you should feel any shame. You are human. You have been shaped by your experiences and whatever gets you off for however long is your business so long as it is consensual. It sounds like you have some internal conflict about how you feel and that can be quite heavy to carry. Perhaps talking to a sex therapist would ease your concerns a little bit. 

[Perv2000]

On 11/25/2019 at 2:35 PM, VeeVandal said:

This is a really interesting and open and honest post. I'm glad you feel able to address your feelings here. Most of what we experience as kink develops as an interest during adolescence (usually). We are ALL shaped by our interpersonal experiences particularly what we are exposed to as ***. These experiences are so varied between people that I really don't think that any particular kink that results should be a cause for shame. You mention the teachers you were exposed at school. As *** especially and ***s, we don't have the emotional skills to navigate difficult experiences. The emotional brain is still developing until your early twenties. There is a lot of emphasis on the affects of parenting but what about the effects of poor teaching also? If you think about how often we go to school, we probably spend more time with teachers than parents. If a child is exposed to 'bullying' over a long period of time, the child usually subconciously uses repression as a means to 'survive'. This means that the body uses a lot of energy to keep the effects of the difficult or prolonged experiences hidden. What I personally have experienced ( and also in my previous work in mental health) is that traumatic experiences can shape the emotional brain and consequently the sexual drives and desires we develop as ***s. Sometimes without our active control we respond to stimulus that excites us and we don't always know why. Often times in kink, we re experience traumatic events in a sexual way. This is the subconcious minds way of offering healing. In kink we can re imagine a scenario that caused us stress or trauma, we can turn the power dynamic on it's head and gain control of the 'trauma' by using it in roleplay. In scenes even as submissives I would argue that you have a lot more control than you think you do. Your limits dictate how far the domme can go with you. So you are actually re gaining control over something that hurt you. In that sense I would argue that it is an entirely healthy, sane and consenual way to process deep emotional hurts. You are not odd in any way. Lots of us have these desires but unfortunately, especially men, we are not conditioned to talk about how we feel. Just because you are alpha in daily life and in a relationship does not mean that you should feel any shame. You are human. You have been shaped by your experiences and whatever gets you off for however long is your business so long as it is consensual. It sounds like you have some internal conflict about how you feel and that can be quite heavy to carry. Perhaps talking to a sex therapist would ease your concerns a little bit. 

Thanks for your post. As you enjoyed it, here's some more details! : )

I think my experiences had 4 or so phases.

The first was when I was around maybe 7 or 8 or so. I didn't understand why reading stories of strict, corporal female teachers made me feel “funny and nice” ie aroused. In the pre-internet era, as little kids we really had virtually zero idea of what sex actually was. We'd see pictures of “sexy schoolma'ams” with canes etc in the mainstream press. And similar things were shown on TV comedies eg Kenny Everett and stuff. I'd hear phrases like “sex attack” in the news and we were all warned “not to go with strangers because they might do rude things and hurt you”. Especially given the weird physical feelings I couldn't fathom, this was all very enthralling. I was told sex involved procreation, but that didn't make sense because most adults only had 1 or 2 kids... not dozens LOL. Then we'd hear phrases like “mistresses” in the news and black leather boots were a bit of a fashion back then. The general feeling was that anything sexual, even nudity was bad and rude. Even thinking of looking up a girl's dress would earn you a punishment more ***some than anything imaginable. I remember a young female teacher delighting in saying to us “any misbheaviour and you'll be tied up and whipped”. She had such a look of delight on her face. But I had no idea she was joking. The most terrifying words any child in my school would hear would be they would be having a “trip to the Office” ie pssible corporal punishment. As a young child I walked on a couple having sex. The panting and moaning made me think that spanking and sex were the same thing. I even had an idea that condoms (which were sometimes left in my school playground) were used during punishments to stop boys ***ing themselves!

The next stage was at around 12 when I was sexually mature (sort of!). I felt as if attractive female teachers could read my mind (and my budding bedtime interests which typically involved the same female teachers!). I'd go bright red whenever I had a private conversation with them. Definitely this added to my BDSM interests going forward. Even with female teachers who weren't the bullying type I felt a type of strong embarrassed subservience. The feeling I was just a grubby little pervert who needed to be beaten into line for his own good. I also had a habit of drawing Sardax type pictures as part of my daydreams.

The 3rd stage was when I was 16 to 18. Ofcourse I knew and had experienced a lot of vanilla stuff by then. So I was looking for the next thrill. One very attractive female teacher had a habit of making very BDSM type comments. For instance, “I should pull your pants down to your ankles and tan your backside til its red raw”. One day she mockingly “whipped” my back with a towel. A couple of times (long story!) we had some rather frank ie graphic exchanges of words regarding sexual and corporal affairs. I also felt weighed down with a “burden” in regards this teacher, that my behaviour on a couple of things needed to be “brought/beaten into line”. Again a sense of shame and anger at myself. Reading up on Victorian governesses/schoolma'ams and the like, this teacher was/would have been very much the yin to my yang or whatever in earlier decades. I've no doubt she would have delighted in administering a brutal punishment to her young governess's ward in years gone by. Probably involving the Victorian topic of “self ***” etc.

The 4th stage I think was the internet, just after college. And learning how there was whole culture of bdsm and everything I yearned for, many others actually did. I remember looking at leather boots, school mistreses and the like. And that it was actually available. For 3 weeks I went out and found that vanilla girls no longer interested me. I'd see an attractive woman in bars and would imagine her in leather and me kneeling infront of her, being spat at and slapped, beaten etc. It was enthralling but also kind of worrying. For isntance, what if vanilla girls never hit the spot for me again? I also felt like the feelings of "women reading my mind" might reappear.

Since then I've balanced a 95% vanilla life, with 5% sub/slave/whrtever.

I don't think I'd want to see a “normal therapist”. I'd be worried they might see problems that I don't think exist. But I'd be very interested in having a Domme as a therapist. Cross examination, punishment, maybe a reward for taking the punishment , absolution from sin, and a resolution to do whatever before the next appointment. Having my burdens lifted, mind cleared, and a new found focus/self discipline for the coming whatever time. As I had a tiny bit in the past. A little like the Governess with her ward. Or the Victorian man who had a Governess type figure throughout his life. Or even like the semi-freed serf (?) of the Roman Domina. I also wonder if the whole thrill of BDSM is that its something I feel "bad" about! : )

 

Edited December 1, 2019 by Perv2000

[Perv2000]

On 10/11/2019 at 5:28 PM, DarkNecessities said:

Perv....from a Dom, and one 'Alpha male' to another... 1. It is absolutely a healthy way to work through your kinks if done in the right way. IMHO, all of us here have some sort of hangup, to a greater or lesser extent, that makes us enjoy the kinky stuff. I think it is VERY important for you to do 2 things: - find a Domme that is experienced in proper aftercare. You are going to be in a fragile place after a session until you have worked through some of these things. A good partner is important. - find a therapist. There are many kink-friendly therapists, but even a vanilla one would be fine. There are underlying issues you can work on, as well as becoming ok with the fact you like kink. S&M can be a good way to work through issues, but it should go along with therapy. Doing this does not make you weak or stupid. Going to the gym to improve your body is not stupid; going to a therapist to improve your mental/emotional health is not either. 2. Can't tell you 3. Speaking from the opposite perspective, I have had relationships with (female) subs who have had what they, or others, viewed as dark interests, or edge play interests. As long as it is all consensual, it doesn't cause harm to others, and does not cause serious harm to the participants, it's all good. There are many Doms (and I assume Dommes) that enjoy helping subs push boundaries and get off on helping them through the mind-fuck of enjoying dark and depraved things. And for the REALLY extreme things, remember some things can be explored and shared just as fantasies; you don't have to actually jump off that cliff. Sometimes, just walking along the edge with someone can be amazing. Good luck with your BDSM journey.

Thanks for your post.Very interesting. Something to think about for me! : )