ey**** Posted June 17 Posted June 17 2 hours ago, CopperKnob said: The only person someone is competing with for my time/attention etc is me. What can anyone else bring to enhance my life more than I can myself 🤷♀️ there was a good post a friend of mine posted on facebook the other day which sums it up "it's not other men you have to compete with; it's a woman's solace" and she really is someone who is like, dating would be nice - but honestly - it's not my priority, me saying you have to be damn special to change that is not a challenge
LadyV Posted June 17 Posted June 17 Once again, the thing getting in sub men's way when it comes to connecting with women is their own unaddressed misogyny. 🙄 Sub men: "Help, I don't know what I'm doing wrong!" Anyone: /Helps by correcting things he's doing wrong. Sub men: "Lol, those aren't wrong. I don't have to change anything about my perception of women, dating, gender, or sexism! You're all wrong, lol." Welp, alright bud. Continue as is, I guess. Maidenless as fuck. 😒
ey**** Posted June 17 Posted June 17 I think of the reasons I drum on so much - is there was a point when I was younger when I risked falling into this trap I was single, lonely, and felt I would be a good boyfriend "if just given a chance" - and - I constantly compared myself to other guys, I'd get into the whole "people won't give me a chance cos I'm not good looking" or "I'm not rich" or whatever and it was shallow, misogynistic and simply not true And it's self defeating. I then went from nothing to a few relationships just by shifting attitude - I mean maybe if I had been 'better looking', or wealthier then I might have had more relationships or casual sex, but if these were people only interested in looks or *** they'd have been shortlived and wouldn't have been as meaningful as the ones I did have.
VoodooQueen_ Posted June 17 Posted June 17 April 16, LadyV said: Apologies, this is going to be long but important. I'm a Dominant woman. I'm also married to my submissive. I'm the whole package of Topping skills. I took many classes over the years to learn how to do all the kinks I am interested in and practiced at home in my free time because I wanted to know those skills. I invested so much *** into gear, equipment, supplies, toys, and my own education. I have a bookshelf full of kink books (instructional and educational, not pointless erotica) because I want to know how to do this shit safely for real and not as a jerk off fantasy. I wear breathtaking (and expensive) lingerie and leather outfits not to serve the male gaze (fuck the dehumanizing male gaze) but because they help me get into the correct headspace I need to be in to perform for myself. Everything I have done, I did for myself. Over the years I've been in kink, I have endlessly heard submissive men whine about the shortage of Dominant women. Often this whining turns to misogynistic directions (ie "women must just naturally be subs!") because most cishet submissive men harbor enormous misogyny and have failed (due to *** ignorance or conscious intent) to address the misogyny in themselves. As a woman, listening to submissive men talk in their whiny and misogynistic ways is very repellent. Especially when submissive men always seem to be missing the most obvious point: The Dominant women you see are just the ones who survived. Stop for a fucking second and think, men. Really think. Follow me along and put yourself in my boots for a minute here: Begin at birth. Everything we do in the social conditioning of baby girls is meant to soften, pacify, and train docility. We give boys spacial awareness building toys, often mimicking real tools, that are highly intricate and interactive and help the brain better grasp the manipulation of objects and their environment. We give a girl a doll and tell her to love it, hold it, nurse it, and baby it quietly. While a boy is encouraged to take up space, be loud, run, fight, be physical, be vital, be messy, and lead others...a girl is told the exact opposite. Stop running. Don't get your clothes messy. Don't be bossy. Don't Don't Don't. She's being trained and conditioned at an age too early to know what's being done to her to automatically behave in a way that will set her up in the future to be a fucking slave because we live under a patriarchal society that wants that for her future. The world is brainwashing her before her brain is even fully developed. Fast forward to ***age years and we see that both sexes experience a downturn in self confidence as the biggest challenge of ***agers is the sense of belonging, friendships, conforming to friend groups, and developing a sense of identity...but ***age girls experience a much larger drop in self esteem than boys do. Every aspect of their entire body, mind, and emotions are actively scrutinized and under attack in a way boys just will not experience in the same way. Eating disorders skew female in ***agers. Mental health issues skew female. Experiences of sexual harassment and *** skew female. *** ideation and attempts skew female. This isn't a coincidence. This is by societal design. Girls and women are pumped full of messages saying, "you're not good enough as you are...so buy these products and look like this, act like this, talk like this, think like this, become this." And all of those messages about who and what she should be are entirely contradictory and impossible to achieve. "Be sexy but don't look or act too sexy. Don't be a prude but don't be a slut. Don't take up too much space but don't not show up! Be a girl boss but don't be mean or critical to anyone. Dress pretty but not too pretty, or you're going to alienate other women and attract ***. If you look too pretty, people won't think you're very smart or listen to you, if you don't look pretty at all no one will think you take care of yourself, if you are pretty and smart though no one will believe it or listen to you. Don't be too fat but don't be too thin either. Have curves but having curves means you never look professional and all your uniforms look inappropriate. Don't be distrusting of men, but if something bad happens to you, it must be your fault for not being cautious enough!" And girls and women are stuck doing this rabbit room dance their entire fucking vanilla lives. Ya know what a rabbit room is? It's a learned ***ness experiment where you stick a rabbit in a room and electrocute the floor. The rabbit jumps around from place to place frantically trying to figure out the safe spot to be on. The experimenters keep switching the safe spot until eventually they make it so there is no safe spot in the room. The rabbit figures out there is no safe spot this time and just stops jumping and ***ly waits for the *** to stop. And in future experiments when the safe spot comes back, the rabbit doesn't look for it anymore. It has learned ***ness. It just continues to sit and wait for the *** to stop. Our sexist society fucking does this to women all during our childhood and ***age years. Trains us on sexist mistreatment and then teaches us to just take it and see it as "normal" and "acceptable." And through the gauntlet of childhood and ***age years...a whole lot of potentially Dominant women are lost. Our sexist society successfully brainwashed and ***d that potential out of them. Gone. Now we get into adulthood. Vanilla dating for adult women is difficult and dangerous enough as is, but let's add kink into it. Ya know what happens first when a woman feels interested in kink? She has to combat a lifetime of often religious brainwashing telling her she's not supposed to have interests in sex at all, let alone kink. She needs to overcome the evil of purity culture and she has to do it alone cause no one is going to care, help, or even understand it cause it's normalized sexist shit training women to be asexual until our bodies are "owned" for the benefit of a man. Our sexuality doesn't belong to us. Right here, more potentially Dominant women are lost due to the abusive effects of misogynistic religious doctrine and purity culture on women. Starting to see a pattern? You're gonna see it happening everywhere once you start to see it. We need to teach ourselves to own it again and ya know what happens immediately after we do and fully identify as kinky? The world calls us sluts. Kinky women are all assumed to be sluts. The many vanilla fucboys seeking vanilla hook-up sex on fetish sites are evidence of that societal assumption. We see an immediate punishment for diverging from our societal training: increased sexual harassment and higher odds of sexual ***. Ask around amongst kinky women, you'll see a ton of them saw an increase in sexual harassment upon entering kink. Many women experienced sexual *** for the first time after entering the kink scene. Many women new to kink leave kink almost immediately after due to the rampant sexual harassment and ***. Right there in that little entryway moment, a whole ton of potential Dominant women are gone cause they literally got crushed away while they were still hatching. Now let's say she made it past the sexist training of childhood, overcame the religious asexual virgin=value brainwashing, claimed her sexuality, and learned to endure and survive the increased sexual harassment and high odds of sexual *** because she really wants to join the kink community and not only that...she might be interested in being a Dominant. Ya know what fucking comes next for her? Our entire kink community is going to start pushing her towards being a sub. I would know. It happened to me and almost all of the D-type women I've known. This "push" looks like this: - Everyone is going to assume she's a sub and treat her like one. - Every man is going to approach her like she should sub/bottom for him. - Every sub woman is going to try to set her up to be their new "sub ***" and try to get her to join their sub support group or bottom for their "Daddies." - If she seeks a mentor, she'll find mostly only Dominant men offering to "mentor" and every last one will "require her" to bottom for him while he "mentors her." - Brand new to kink with no role yet and just trying to explore everything equally? Immediately picked up and locked into a long-term relationship with a Dom and all you're every getting to learn or explore is going to be subbing to him. On and fucking on. Our kink communities will do everything in their power to funnel her towards becoming a sub and away from dominance. Right there, more potential Dominant women are lost from the misogynistic sub-funneling effect kink communities do to newbie women that we're all so blind to. So she swims against the *** of this mighty pushing river and manages to make it to identifying as a Dominant and learning the skills she wants to know (despite the many "mentors" who tried to use "teaching" her as an opportunity to try to sexually exploit and *** her. Looking at you in particular, male rigger Tops that offer Top women "rigging mentorship"). Despite all these incredible odds, she's made it to being a Dominant woman! So what happens to her next? Oh right. The enormous misogyny of submissive men. Upon reaching the mountain top of bdsm dominance, exhausted with her hands and feet bleeding from the razor sharp climb, she's greeted by the average example of a submissive man. He looks at her and goes, "It is now time for you to serve me, woman. Wear this outfit I find sexy and follow this porn script I wrote based on MY favorite jerk off fantasies. Do these kinks of mine according to this grocery list of MY wants. No, I don't care about yours or if my kinks are in your hard limits list. No, I don't care if we're compatible. You're just a body. A female-shaped puppet to hold a flogger while I pull your strings and you dance to MY fantasy porn re-enactments. Serve me MY kinks on a silver platter. Do-me like I tell you to. Do-me NOW." And he's not just one man. He is thousands. Hundreds of thousands. All at once. All in her face and very loud and relentless. Never ending do-me-sub bottoms wanting the same exact misogynistic control over women as any vanilla or D-type man, just a different flavor of control over her. Same. Damn. Shit. At first, Dominant women resist this. They are shocked and confused by it and try to write it off as "just that guy." But no...we quickly learn that it is MOST submissive men. Most sub men are very misogynistic. That realization is fucking haunting and ***ful for a demographic of women who have spent their entire lives rebelling against what a sexist society wanted for them. To go through all that just to end up right back at the start with men who don't think of us as equal humans, just objects and toys yet again. When that realization fully sinks in to Dominant women...that most sub men are misogynistic and want to make us serve them...what you typically see next is Dominant women go undercover. Low profile. Hide their kinks. Hide their roles. Hide their gender. Hide the fact they are Dominants to try to get the legions of men to leave them alone. Or...it is at this point you see many Dominant women leave kink entirely because they've grown disgusted by it. Disgusted by kink and the sorts of subs available to them. Might as well return to the vanilla world as there's probably better odds there of finding a partner who isn't a misogynist. And right there you lose even more Dominant women due to the unrelenting bullshit of misogyny. The only Dominant women left are the ones who survived. So when all you sub dudes are sitting around whining about the shortage and your own "hopelessness." Maybe stop the self-pity long enough to ask yourself what you are doing to help change the world to make it easier for Dominant women to come into existence in the first place. What are doing to end systemic sexism and the misogyny of men? No? Nothing? Just waiting around for women to do all the work surviving that fucking death trap and seeing which Dominant women come out the other side of it for you to all immediately swarm just as she emerges ***y? If that is all you are doing to help the problems and obstacles women are facing as they approach dominance, then you only have yourselves to blame for the shortage of Dominant women that you feel. God, this is such a powerful post and totally mirrors my experience. So many subs need to hear this. Brava!
cr**** Posted June 18 Posted June 18 It’s 1,000,000x easier by orders of magnitude simply how relationships and men and women are wired from the start to find differences than common ground That is my argument for why gender matters IMO
cr**** Posted June 18 Posted June 18 Like I have a daughter and a baby momma who I love the same amount. I cannot for the life of me communicate with mom for good and I’ve never once felt like my daughter doesnt know exactly who she and her daddy are at every moment she is with me. Can I scare her with anger and rage and these awful terrible manly emotions. Yes. And it is my job as a man to teach her that wounds heal
cr**** Posted June 18 Posted June 18 We are all independent, free willed and beholden to ourselves and the eventuality of time. We can break bonds set forth by every God, government, and gormless piece of shit (That’s called viewing a problem through the “correct” lens)
cr**** Posted June 18 Posted June 18 Simply put: we choose our paths and our actions and our words and our thoughts It’s just sometimes also up to fate and luck and many outside ***s that we know absolutely nothing about Both can co-exist in harmony and in utter hell at the same moment. It’s called Duality my Mexican brother
submissivemale4use Posted June 21 Posted June 21 Hello my yearning is to be owned by a Femdom or be a domestic ie French Maid and live total commitment BDSM 24/7; am I dreaming or realistic and how difficult is it to get a good attentive and strict owner? Thank you.
ey**** Posted June 21 Posted June 21 2 hours ago, submissivemale4use said: Hello my yearning is to be owned by a Femdom or be a domestic ie French Maid and live total commitment BDSM 24/7; am I dreaming or realistic and how difficult is it to get a good attentive and strict owner? Thank you. So, that's an end point there's a lot of work needed to get from a starting point, to that end point. And this honestly sums up some of the major problems guys have in general. That you might chat to someone on here, or the old 'meet for a coffee' or whatever and then you just met them and it's "I wanna be your 24/7 live in slave and I want you to give me lots of attention and be strict and blah blah" and it's off-putting. Even if she would ultimately be up for the idea. And then men just dismiss the women as fake as they wouldn't bowl over to the immediate fantasy. And men are like "yes, but I don't want to be in a relationship for six months or so and then find I can't have what I ultimately want" and continue to chase the holy grail rather than working on a relationship together with someone. So I know people in 24/7 relationships with D/s, ownership, etc. and it takes time working together to get from start to finish and in that, you may very well end up adjusting what you initially wanted. And a lot of this doesn't mean overly compromising what you first want, but being realistic on the journey to get there. Because your proposals above are fun for you, but can be exhausting for a partner
VoodooQueen_ Posted June 21 Posted June 21 6 hours ago, eyemblacksheep said: So, that's an end point there's a lot of work needed to get from a starting point, to that end point. And this honestly sums up some of the major problems guys have in general. That you might chat to someone on here, or the old 'meet for a coffee' or whatever and then you just met them and it's "I wanna be your 24/7 live in slave and I want you to give me lots of attention and be strict and blah blah" and it's off-putting. Even if she would ultimately be up for the idea. And then men just dismiss the women as fake as they wouldn't bowl over to the immediate fantasy. And men are like "yes, but I don't want to be in a relationship for six months or so and then find I can't have what I ultimately want" and continue to chase the holy grail rather than working on a relationship together with someone. So I know people in 24/7 relationships with D/s, ownership, etc. and it takes time working together to get from start to finish and in that, you may very well end up adjusting what you initially wanted. And a lot of this doesn't mean overly compromising what you first want, but being realistic on the journey to get there. Because your proposals above are fun for you, but can be exhausting for a partner Perfect response.
VoodooQueen_ Posted June 21 Posted June 21 Tuesday at 02:45 AM, crosscountry69 said: Like I have a daughter and a baby momma who I love the same amount. I cannot for the life of me communicate with mom for good and I’ve never once felt like my daughter doesnt know exactly who she and her daddy are at every moment she is with me. Can I scare her with anger and rage and these awful terrible manly emotions. Yes. And it is my job as a man to teach her that wounds heal You scare people/*** with your anger and rage?
Th**** Posted June 21 Posted June 21 20 minutes ago, VoodooQueen-9510 said: You scare people/*** with your anger and rage? Yeah, that's not normal or OK and things like "manly emotions" is a bs excuse for having poor emotional regulation. The appropriate route would be to get therapy, heal and grow and not harm the people in your life in the first place. Most especially not your ***.
Th**** Posted June 21 Posted June 21 7 hours ago, eyemblacksheep said: And men are like "yes, but I don't want to be in a relationship for six months or so and then find I can't have what I ultimately want" and continue to chase the holy grail rather than working on a relationship together with someone. The whole response was good but I wasted to highlight this specifically. People can still discuss what they ultimately want or would be willing to work toward. Compatibility as two whole human individuals is key yes and the ultimate make or break but it's also still perfectly OK and important to discuss wants, likes and needs. Nobody's saying don't do that or wait to bring it up later. The point is, that instead of prioritizing "person that fits this role and has the exact same kinks as I do" the priority should be "Do we like each other as whole, individual people and are we compatible in that way first. *Then* do our kink interests align at least a fair amount?" I would say that for most people they are probably pretty willing to explore and experiment with things they hadn't really thought about or considered before the more they like someone for who they are as a whole person. People > kink doesn't mean that the kink stuff isn't still important, it simply shifts priority and will actually have better outcomes.
VoodooQueen_ Posted June 21 Posted June 21 18 minutes ago, ThaliaV said: Yeah, that's not normal or OK and things like "manly emotions" is a bs excuse for having poor emotional regulation. The appropriate route would be to get therapy, heal and grow and not harm the people in your life in the first place. Most especially not your ***. ***Applauds***
LadyV Posted June 21 Posted June 21 The whole "but I don't want to be in a relationship for 6 months and then find I can't have what I ultimately want!" is especially funny when you consider this: These dudes are chasing that one specific porno fantasy endpoint and having *no relationship at all* for YEARS as a result. But 6 months of building a D/s relationship with a Dominant woman that may or may not lead to their exact fantasy (but could lead to something similar or different but just as good) strikes them as a bad move. 🤣🤣🤣
photoiowa Posted June 21 Posted June 21 38 minutes ago, LadyV said: But 6 months of building a D/s relationship with a Dominant woman that may or may not lead to their exact fantasy (but could lead to something similar or different but just as good) strikes them as a bad move. 🤣🤣🤣 I would offer a differing way to look at this... If you feel like you are a giving person. While at the same time being ***d to repress your wants/needs (will not open that can of worms). It may be difficult to accept that "just as good" is worth the effort.... For example.. When I have to something built for me and we have to go through a design process routinely the people working with me will offer options that are just as good as what I asked for but NOT what I wanted/needed. Now within a relationship I would hope that kink would be less transactional but all to often kink relationships start extremely transactional as everyone is trying to get what they want and need while not looking for the long term relationship. Does it have something to do with scratching the itch.. so to speak? I don't know. What I do know is that when you are having you needs met you are more more able to think rationally about things then when your struggling.
Th**** Posted June 21 Posted June 21 43 minutes ago, LadyV said: The whole "but I don't want to be in a relationship for 6 months and then find I can't have what I ultimately want!" is especially funny when you consider this: These dudes are chasing that one specific porno fantasy endpoint and having *no relationship at all* for YEARS as a result. But 6 months of building a D/s relationship with a Dominant woman that may or may not lead to their exact fantasy (but could lead to something similar or different but just as good) strikes them as a bad move. 🤣🤣🤣 Yes! Precisely!!! Excellent point. Things not working out is a possibility in ANY relationship. There's always opportunity to learn and grow, even if things don't work out. So thinking about relationships that don't work out as a "waste of time" is a counterproductive, self harming mindset. We can still learn more about navigating interpersonal relationships and kink relationships. We can learn more about ourselves in general/as a whole as well as learn more about kink and gain more experience. Actually figure out what they like and don't like, if it's only ever fantasy and you've never actually experienced a thing you don't know for sure that you'll actually be into it or not.
Th**** Posted June 21 Posted June 21 (edited) 16 minutes ago, photoiowa said: I would offer a differing way to look at this... If you feel like you are a giving person. While at the same time being ***d to repress your wants/needs (will not open that can of worms). It may be difficult to accept that "just as good" is worth the effort.... For example.. When I have to something built for me and we have to go through a design process routinely the people working with me will offer options that are just as good as what I asked for but NOT what I wanted/needed. Now within a relationship I would hope that kink would be less transactional but all to often kink relationships start extremely transactional as everyone is trying to get what they want and need while not looking for the long term relationship. Does it have something to do with scratching the itch.. so to speak? I don't know. What I do know is that when you are having you needs met you are more more able to think rationally about things then when your struggling. No. You're still focusing inward with no regard for *why* someone would be at all interested in meeting your *wants* The contractor analogy doesn't work because that's their *job* they've chosen and you're paying them the fees that *they set* that determines what it takes for them to want to do that job. Women Dominants are saying over and over what it takes to make them want to even interact with men who seek them. Then men tell them "no, you're wrong for wanting to be treated like a whole person and to want me to be interested in you for who you are. All I want is for you to do x, y, z to me" Women say "No, if that's what you want then pay me or leave me alone and go pay a pro." Then men get increasingly more frustrated and increasingly more angry and increasingly less desirable for their attitudes and behaviors. Because they want and claim "needs" for a fantasy that doesn't actually exist. I don't know any Dom women who approach kink relationships as you describe. Their wants and needs are to be treated like people. If they don't get that they simply don't even entertain the idea of entering into a relationship with someone. Edited June 21 by ThaliaV
LadyV Posted June 21 Posted June 21 44 minutes ago, ThaliaV said: No. You're still focusing inward with no regard for *why* someone would be at all interested in meeting your *wants* The contractor analogy doesn't work because that's their *job* they've chosen and you're paying them the fees that *they set* that determines what it takes for them to want to do that job. Women Dominants are saying over and over what it takes to make them want to even interact with men who seek them. Then men tell them "no, you're wrong for wanting to be treated like a whole person and to want me to be interested in you for who you are. All I want is for you to do x, y, z to me" Women say "No, if that's what you want then pay me or leave me alone and go pay a pro." Then men get increasingly more frustrated and increasingly more angry and increasingly less desirable for their attitudes and behaviors. Because they want and claim "needs" for a fantasy that doesn't actually exist. I don't know any Dom women who approach kink relationships as you describe. Their wants and needs are to be treated like people. If they don't get that they simply don't even entertain the idea of entering into a relationship with someone. Exactly this. It is so incredibly telling that he used contract workers building something for him as a comparison. He can't even see it. 😂 But hey, continue not listening to what D-type chicks are telling ya, being lonely, and getting zero needs met in pursuit of that porno fantasy endpoint, sub dudes. That's your choice. Fine by me if years of nothing at all makes more sense for y'all. 🤷♀️
photoiowa Posted June 21 Posted June 21 26 minutes ago, ThaliaV said: No. You're still focusing inward with no regard for *why* someone would be at all interested in meeting your *wants* The contractor analogy doesn't work because that's their *job* they've chosen and you're paying them the fees that *they set* that determines what it takes for them to want to do that job. Women Dominants are saying over and over what it takes to make them want to even interact with men who seek them. Then men tell them "no, you're wrong for wanting to be treated like a whole person and to want me to be interested in you for who you are. All I want is for you to do x, y, z to me" Women say "No, if that's what you want then pay me or leave me alone and go pay a pro." Then men get increasingly more frustrated and increasingly more angry and increasingly less desirable for their attitudes and behaviors. Because they want and claim "needs" for a fantasy that doesn't actually exist. I don't know any Dom women who approach kink relationships as you describe. Their wants and needs are to be treated like people. If they don't get that they simply don't even entertain the idea of entering into a relationship with someone. Respectfully, I disagree, I am simply trying to help you to understand WHY the subs tend to want their fantasies fulfilled without looking at the bigger more long lasting relationship picture. For the majority of submissive men online... They are approached by women who demand *** (tribute) creating a transactional event. It is now their Job. They have taken compensation in the form of currency for any sort of "relationship" with a submissive male... The Dominant woman that you describe so well are not in the majority and most certainly are not influencing the newer people in the scene who cannot identify the bad ones. I would argue that the submissive male having been exposed to the lessor first has their perception clouded. I started in munches and with some amazingly helpful, caring , and strong Dominant women who through their actions showed how it could be. I still struggle with the ramifications of those experiences. I am not saying the Dom women approach relationships this way I am saying a large number of male subs that I have seen both here and other sites do. The ones I have met in real life at munches and kink events do not so much. I guess the takehome. Online only male subs are partially conditioned to look at relationships as transactional involving cash exchange for the relationship. Female Dominants want a relationship that is long lasting with a good man or woman that more than a whipping post and well honed tongue skill. Neither are not being made whole so they cannot see how to make someone else whole. Their is frustration on both sides and the obvious (to me) is get offline and get *** out of kink.
CopperKnob Posted June 21 Posted June 21 1 hour ago, photoiowa said: I would offer a differing way to look at this... If you feel like you are a giving person. While at the same time being ***d to repress your wants/needs (will not open that can of worms). It may be difficult to accept that "just as good" is worth the effort.... For example.. When I have to something built for me and we have to go through a design process routinely the people working with me will offer options that are just as good as what I asked for but NOT what I wanted/needed. Now within a relationship I would hope that kink would be less transactional but all to often kink relationships start extremely transactional as everyone is trying to get what they want and need while not looking for the long term relationship. Does it have something to do with scratching the itch.. so to speak? I don't know. What I do know is that when you are having you needs met you are more more able to think rationally about things then when your struggling. Suggests that (kink) relationships start off too transactional but uses an example of a transaction in an attempt to drive the point home 🤷♀️
CopperKnob Posted June 21 Posted June 21 10 minutes ago, photoiowa said: Respectfully, I disagree, I am simply trying to help you to understand WHY the subs tend to want their fantasies fulfilled without looking at the bigger more long lasting relationship picture. For the majority of submissive men online... They are approached by women who demand *** (tribute) creating a transactional event. It is now their Job. They have taken compensation in the form of currency for any sort of "relationship" with a submissive male... The Dominant woman that you describe so well are not in the majority and most certainly are not influencing the newer people in the scene who cannot identify the bad ones. I would argue that the submissive male having been exposed to the lessor first has their perception clouded. I started in munches and with some amazingly helpful, caring , and strong Dominant women who through their actions showed how it could be. I still struggle with the ramifications of those experiences. I am not saying the Dom women approach relationships this way I am saying a large number of male subs that I have seen both here and other sites do. The ones I have met in real life at munches and kink events do not so much. I guess the takehome. Online only male subs are partially conditioned to look at relationships as transactional involving cash exchange for the relationship. Female Dominants want a relationship that is long lasting with a good man or woman that more than a whipping post and well honed tongue skill. Neither are not being made whole so they cannot see how to make someone else whole. Their is frustration on both sides and the obvious (to me) is get offline and get *** out of kink. Why is it necessary for you to argue/tell two Dom women that their experiences are not their experiences?
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