Redemption

[Deleted Member]

A pre-warning. This is a long post.

 

Something happened yesterday evening and it made me feel quite anxious, but I learned a few things from the experience, and I would like to share with you so that others might appreciate it as well.

 

I have started a Twitter account, since word of mouth is apparently the only advertisement I can utilise for my stories, and even then I am extremely restricted and limited by what I can say and do on various social platforms.

 

I am not afraid to admit that I make mistakes. Despite trying to uphold a respectful and revered reputation as a gentleman, I can be socially awkward, and I know that even after so much learning, I can always improve. Those who know me well enough know that I never intend to cause offence, and if an apology is in order; I try to make it as sincere as possible.

 

All of my comments on Twitter are compliments, sometimes with constructive criticism worded as politely as possible. In hindsight, I see that adding relevant links to my own stories, might come across as rude.

"Imagine the nerve to post links on someone else's posts."

 

I received this comment from someone I was following, who's work I enjoyed. While my comments were praise, I realise that I crossed a line, but here is where I think they were wrong. Instead of talking to me first, voicing their issue to the person with whom they had it, they publicly commented and verbally attacked me for a mistake I did not intentionally make. Then they blocked me, so now I cannot view their work. I have no way of apologising, undoing my actions, or redeeming myself. I would have enjoyed following their work.

 

There are a lot of people who post and comment on this website too, with aggressive and negative feedback. While I think everyone has the right to disagree with another person's thoughts, I believe it is important to think about how one goes about it. It is not about telling someone they are wrong; it is about improving their understanding. Rather than saying "you are wrong", politely suggest that they are mistaken (who knows? You might be wrong yourself), and inform them of the truth. Give them a chance to maybe apologise, or in some way redeem themselves. Too many people are eager to cut others down, rather than help them build a more knowledgeable foundation to stand on.

 

I would suspect that the majority of mistakes are due to lack of awareness, rather than ignorance, so the person perhaps does not *know* they have made a mistake?

 

I am sorry if I have bored anyone with this, but certainly expressing my apology as well as my own displeasure, I have lessened my anxiety; even if I could not say this to the person who actually needed to hear it. My mistake was what made me feel horrible, but the response from the Twitter person made me feel much worse than I deserved.

[Deleted Member]

Thank you for sharing this with us. That block button is a good idea but so often used the wrong way. I think sometimes it’s ok to silently know something is wrong, somebody is wrong. Sometimes it’s easier to just know without sharing.

[Ar****]

I understand, and agree. Thank you for opening up and putting yourself "out there" in this way. I'm glad that expressing yourself here has helped somewhat.

[Vandalslut]

DanteReign, I've always found your posts in this forum to be thoughtful, well-constructed, informative and well-worded so I believe you would do the same on any social platform or forum. I agree with Aimil2019 - sometimes people click 'block' a little too hastily - and then it's too late. The blocked party is hurt, usually bewildered and has no way of making the correction, explaining the matter or clearing up the misunderstanding as we would do if we were in the room with that person.  In fact, in this age of instantness, I've found that while people aren't instant, human reactions have become much more hair-trigger in the days of 'Click Send'.  Rather than invest five minutes in asking for clarification - or even five minutes for thought! -  'send' has been clicked and the angry reaction's up there, in all its savage, misspelt and rageful glory.   I've fallen into the habit of reading everything several times before clicking 'send'  simply because I know what I'd like to receive. Sometimes I just stash it in 'Drafts' and read it an hour or two later, change it then click 'send'.  After all, what's the rush? And even so, there will be those who can STILL take offence when none was meant, as in your case.  And of course, we won't always agree, but we can agree to differ and we can agree to exercise good manners. I was delving into a book recently that had been written in the 1950s and which had some detailed chapters on etiquette for men. There was some excellent advice therein:  "Never put your name to something that you would be ashamed to see on the front page of a newspaper with your photo above it"; ...and... "If you are angry at someone, write a letter to them expressing your opinion then put it aside to mail.  By the time you go out again, you'll feel differently and will more than likely either rewrite the letter constructively rather than destructively - or you'll simply tear it up."   We can agree, here and elsewhere, to disagree; and good manners, and gentlemanly - or ladylike - behavior never go out of fashion. Any of us can make a social faux pas and 'tis my belief we go on learning until the day we die. Sadly there are those who are offered the chance to learn, or to react differently to get a better result - but like the person who blocked you then verbally pilloried you  - they reject it.  It's their loss. And you won't be the only one they do it to.   I like reading your posts,  you do project 'gentlemanliness' - that's probably not a word, but you know what I mean!

Edited November 20, 2019 by Vandalslut
misspelling

[Carnelian2]

thank you for sharing. You cannot be responsible for the actions of others, and in what you describe you have done what you can.

we all make mistakes all the time. That is how we grow.

[ey****]

Twitter can take some getting used to especially if building a brand.   A lot of people are there to sell stuff but it's often difficult especially at first - I think as a tip.   Keep a pinned post, and make your description clear : interaction to build up followers can be a slow game - but if you can also combine in posts that others will share it will help boost your reach.

[Deleted Member]

3 hours ago, Vandalslut said:

DanteReign, I've always found your posts in this forum to be thoughtful, well-constructed, informative and well-worded so I believe you would do the same on any social platform or forum. I agree with Aimil2019 - sometimes people click 'block' a little too hastily - and then it's too late. The blocked party is hurt, usually bewildered and has no way of making the correction, explaining the matter or clearing up the misunderstanding as we would do if we were in the room with that person.  In fact, in this age of instantness, I've found that while people aren't instant, human reactions have become much more hair-trigger in the days of 'Click Send'.  Rather than invest five minutes in asking for clarification - or even five minutes for thought! -  'send' has been clicked and the angry reaction's up there, in all its savage, misspelt and rageful glory.   I've fallen into the habit of reading everything several times before clicking 'send'  simply because I know what I'd like to receive. Sometimes I just stash it in 'Drafts' and read it an hour or two later, change it then click 'send'.  After all, what's the rush? And even so, there will be those who can STILL take offence when none was meant, as in your case.  And of course, we won't always agree, but we can agree to differ and we can agree to exercise good manners. I was delving into a book recently that had been written in the 1950s and which had some detailed chapters on etiquette for men. There was some excellent advice therein:  "Never put your name to something that you would be ashamed to see on the front page of a newspaper with your photo above it"; ...and... "If you are angry at someone, write a letter to them expressing your opinion then put it aside to mail.  By the time you go out again, you'll feel differently and will more than likely either rewrite the letter constructively rather than destructively - or you'll simply tear it up."   We can agree, here and elsewhere, to disagree; and good manners, and gentlemanly - or ladylike - behavior never go out of fashion. Any of us can make a social faux pas and 'tis my belief we go on learning until the day we die. Sadly there are those who are offered the chance to learn, or to react differently to get a better result - but like the person who blocked you then verbally pilloried you  - they reject it.  It's their loss. And you won't be the only one they do it to.   I like reading your posts,  you do project 'gentlemanliness' - that's probably not a word, but you know what I mean!

I truly appreciate your kind words. Especially, I remember the quote "wait a day to send an angry letter". I am glad that so many people seem to understand what I have said.

[Vandalslut]

Thanks, DanteReign.  Although the book was 'Vogue's Etiquette for Gentlemen' it's certainly etiquette for anyone today. With the WWW now running our lives, there seems to be more problems communicating than ever before! Sometimes it's the instant action/reaction that's the problem; sometimes it's expectations of someone we don't know and will never meet; we talk to strangers all over the world on every topic and tell them things we'd never say to a stranger's face; and despite having the "Encyclopedia of Practically Everything" on our desk tops now, we seem to know or understand less than before, and what's considered good manners in one place is very bad taste or insulting in another.  My parents are eternally grateful to a Dutch taxi driver - when they visited my Opa and his second wife in Holland twenty years ago, they were talking to each other about stopping at a bakery first to get a cake to take for afternoon tea. Here in Oz, 'taking a plate' when invited to a 'do' is a way of life and considered 'etiquette': everyone contributes to the party/barbecue/Christmas Day lunch by bringing a big bowl of salad or bread rolls or chips and dip or a bbq 'chook' etc, everyone brings their own booze and everyone enjoys the feast together. A 'new chum' who shows up empty-handed through ignorance or an Aussie mate who is temporarily financially embarrassed is of course forgiven and welcomed, but an Aussie who shows up consistently empty-handed is a 'bludger'. The taxi driver warned them not to take ANYTHING for afternoon tea - to do so would imply that the host could not provide food for guests and it would be horribly insulting.

[Phoenyx]

Hey Dante Reign.  I'm really sorry to hear about what happened to you.  Sounds like the other person just didn't have the cajones for an intelligent debate.  Personally, I have no patience for that passive/aggressive BS.  Seems like "social media" has caused the human race to take a great step backward in maturity.  Plus, publicly castigating you for a minor faux pas is just plain wrong.  That other person is lucky that won't have anything to do with social media.  Otherwise, I'd be giving him a serious attitude recalibration.

Does this person have professional contacts or other vital info that you need?  If not, best to just blow him off, and move on.  They're not worth your ***.

Well, maybe a little light-hearted info about my own background might help to illustrate my point.  Hope I don't bore everyone with another of my stories.  My original career path was in the repair business.  From an early age, I worked as a repair tech---TV's, stereos, and CB radios.  And later, VCR's, CD's, DVD's and computers.  It was a lot less taxing the the construction jobs that I took, when repairs were slow (though construction did pay  a lot better).  I even tried to break into the machining trade, as I was an excellent machinist.  But, the machining industry was too "old boy", filled with a lot of prejudice and bigotry.

So, by default, the repair business became my main career,  Toward the end, I was seen as one of the best in the business.  I could knock out ten sets, in the time it took others to fix two.  I was even on the verge of opening my own shop.  But then, everything went disposable, and the rug got pulled.  I had been rendered virtually obsolete.

The point is that tech repair became the root of my professionalism.  It became the place within, upon which I called, whenever I needed to act professional.  For me, that applied to ANY profession.  Back in the 80's, I decided to put myself through school, for a degree in engineering.  But, the professors universally hated me.  I wasn't one of the spoiled little suburbanites, that the teachers felt obligated to mold into good little corporate soldiers.  My focus was on the work, getting it done, getting it done right, and bringing it under budget.  Worse, I spoke my mind, without hesitation.  So, I was universally rejected by the engineering profession.  The college even refused to issue my degree, even though I had easily passed all the classes.  I was ***d to just blow it off and walk away.  I really hate when people waste my time---especially years of my life.

But now, comes the more humorous part.  I am a native of San Francisco---born and raised there.  Back in the early 80's, I was in my mid 20's, attending classes at the local community college, when a classmate commented on how much leather I tended to wear.  She was a good friend, who was in a stable relationship with her husband.  Still, she tended to flirt a lot.  On the day in question, she invited me to a party, that weekend, at their home.  Turned out to be a play party!  They were quite active in SF's BDSM scene.  Definitely a shock to the system.  Took a while to comprehend the dynamics of open relationships, and their limits.  But, I eventually did.

Fast forward to the mid 90's, when I somehow got sucked up into the lofty ranks of the local BDSM royalty.  This was not a career that I had chosen.  Instead, somehow, it had chosen me.  Once more, I called upon my roots as a repair tech, as the source of my professionalism.  Y'all are now free to snicker.  Use your imaginations.  Sit com writers couldn't come with a scenario this outrageous.  Needless to say, among the pro ranks, there was friction.  I was too "non-traditional", among the kinder things said.  Of course, after reading this post, you already know what my reaction was---blow it off!  Hey, I enjoyed my work, and it showed.  Plus, I had plenty of influential friends in the scene, who admired my unique and off-beat style.  So, what, me worry?

I really hope that I haven't been too off-topic with this.  I also hope that the confessions about my background haven't suddenly made me see unapproachable.  Hey, I put my leathers on one leg at a time, just like everyone else.

[Vandalslut]

18 minutes ago, phoenyx said:

So, what, me worry? I really hope that I haven't been too off-topic with this.  I also hope that the confessions about my background haven't suddenly made me see unapproachable.  Hey, I put my leathers on one leg at a time, just like everyone else.

Remember Alfred E. Neuman....

[Deleted Member]

4 hours ago, phoenyx said:

I'm really sorry to hear about what happened to you

Thank you, phoenyx. I am going to be completely honest and tell you that I have not read your impressively long comment. That said, I am grateful for your kind words, and I do not consider you unapproachable (...possibly because I have not read everything you have said). Thank you again.

[Phoenyx]

Well, I really hope that you are felling better.  You seemed really down.  Keep up the writing.  You show a lot of polish and style for someone so young.  You'll definitely be a *** to be reckoned-with, in 15 or 20 years.

[Deleted Member]

2 hours ago, phoenyx said:

Well, I really hope that you are felling better.  You seemed really down.  Keep up the writing.  You show a lot of polish and style for someone so young.  You'll definitely be a *** to be reckoned-with, in 15 or 20 years.

My recovery was swift, I have learned from my mistakes and moved on, and I can assure you that I have not yet run out of story ideas. Thank you for your kind words, all the time. 

Edited November 21, 2019 by Deleted Member

[Deleted Member]

17 hours ago, DanteReign said:

Thank you, phoenyx. I am going to be completely honest and tell you that I have not read your impressively long comment. That said, I am grateful for your kind words

With absolutely no malice or nastiness, just my observation:

Dante, you are prolific in your writing and many members of this site have written comments praising your writing prowess. I also know from conversations I’ve had with members who have personally met you that you’re a “really nice guy”. So the comment above, about not having read the reply from Phoenix, seems a little rude to me, especially when you started this post with the words:

On 11/19/2019 at 11:07 PM, DanteReign said:

A pre-warning. This is a long post.

I would respectfully suggest that if you want others to read your long posts, then it would be simply good manners to reciprocate. To state in writing, as you have done, that you haven’t read someone’s carefully constructed and considered response, that clearly has taken them some considerable time to write, and this after they have evidently read all of your post, comes across as a bit “I can’t be bothered reading your responses, but I want you to keep reading my output and heaping praise upon me.”

If you take the time to read the considerable output from Phoenix, you will doubtless come to the same conclusions as I have: Here is a member of this site with vast experience, huge knowledge and enviable understanding of all that is the BDSM scene, and he’s old enough to be your Grandfather. We could all learn a thing or two from him. Especially about leather! Phoenix was clearly active before many of the members of this site were even born. Respect indeed. Furthermore, his writing style, which to my mind is easy to read and coherent, could be emulated by many, to positive effect. Such persons are valuable assets to this site and community and we would all do well to take note of their written musings and offerings, in my opinion. We don’t all have to agree, but at least show some respect in taking two or three minutes to read their responses.
 

[Deleted Member]

14 hours ago, Fredddy said:

just my observation

To @Fredddy, you are correct, and while it may have just been an observation, it is true what you have said.

To @phoenyx, I am sorry. I sometimes struggle to read longer texts, as seeing lots of words at once essentially "blocks" my mind like a pipe. I was honest, as I always try to be, but I'm hindsight it would have been better to simply come back later when I was ready to read your response. Thank you, again, for your detailed response. I will be sure to respond to your great effort, at a later date.

[Deleted Member]

@Vandalslut I have attempted twice now to message you, but I get a little x saying message not sent. Have you had this before?

[Phoenyx]

Hey Dante, don't worry about it.  Even at my age, I can have difficulty with long passages.  My mind wanders.  I start thinking of other things.  This seems especially true, whenever the discussion involves fetish topics.  "The Scene" is a very emotional realm.  It can be overwhelming.  The mind is trying to go five different places at once.  In this case, "getting back to it later" was exactly the right thing to do.

To everyone else, the error here was simply one of omission.  If Dante had included the sentence, "I'll try to get back to it later", nothing would have seemed amiss.  In real life, that would have been understood.  Voice inflection and body language would have filled-in the blanks.  But, in this remote, text-only environment, even the slightest error or omission can change the meaning of an entire message.  This is where proof-reading becomes so important.

[Vandalslut]

4 hours ago, DanteReign said:

@Vandalslut I have attempted twice now to message you, but I get a little x saying message not sent. Have you had this before?

Hi, DanteReign: I don't think it's happened before, at least not that I know of. I just tried to message you but it came up that you have a filter block on and we don't match   Have another try - we've had loads of bush fire smoke around here followed by a thunderstorm and that can make mobile/internet/ CB radio communications a bit funky.  I'm very glad you're feeling better, too.

 

19 hours ago, Fredddy said:

With absolutely no malice or nastiness, just my observation:

Fredddy, you're our dear forum peacemaker together with eyemblacksheep and wouldn't know malice or nastiness if it bit you on the bum. I enjoy your posts very much.

 

On 11/21/2019 at 3:51 PM, phoenyx said:

Seems like "social media" has caused the human race to take a great step backward in maturity.

My ***y word - there's been one or two toddler-tantrums on this site and fortunately, they're in a minority. And I've seen one or two in this wee cottage when the Vandal is impatient for a delivery of something bought on eBay...

 

3 hours ago, phoenyx said:

Voice inflection and body language would have filled-in the blanks.  But, in this remote, text-only environment, even the slightest error or omission can change the meaning of an entire message. 

This is the problem - with texts and email, it's got to go over with no voice inflection/tone/volume, no body language, no facial expression, so word usage, punctuation, grammar, bold-and-underlining and good ol' emoticons are really important - as is proof reading! And just to make more miscommunication mayhem, a lot of texts, emails and sometimes forum postings, esp. those sent by younger people, come in some sort of strange shorthand with numbers doing duty for words. 'Went 2 twn met sum ppl n 8 pizza...'  I heroically resist the impulse to shout, "Get BACK to school and learn grammar, English, spelling and sentence construction! THEN - read a really, really good book! One with more than ten pages and with words that have more than one syllable!"  So...Let's wind up on a high note:  A dear, wonderful man, a member of our spiritual group, died very suddenly five years ago. It's often said, after someone's crossed the Bridge, that 'an angel walked amongst us and we didn't know'.  Well, we knew that Michael was an angel and we all cherished every moment with him (and I can hear him right now saying, 'Ah, get outa here! Are you making a cuppa coffee?') The funeral, the service and the cakes-and-ale had been tee'd up and one of our members was at that time on a strict food plan. She sent me a text - from one of those tedious "I'll-finish-the-word-for-you 'psychic' mobi-phones:  "I can bring a sandbox for lunch...." and I had an immediate visual of our graceful, former ballerina Becca, Goth frock hoiked up, knickers round her ankles  and having a squat over a box in the pub car park.  I started laughing and couldn't stop. And then she blipped:  "OH, GODS, I MEANT A SANDWICH!!! ***Y TECHNOLOGY!!"  Just as well - I'd been battling an impish impulse to send a message to the effect that the venue did have a ladies' room and she didn't have to BYO.  Recounting the story at the cakes-and-ale, we all had a good, very-much-needed laugh and felt all the better for it, including Michael's long time partner. And I could definitely hear Michael laughing along with us.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Vandalslut
I plead guilty to misspelling - need more coffee...

[Phoenyx]

Quote

"I can bring a sandbox for lunch...." and I had an immediate visual of our graceful, former ballerina Becca, Goth frock hoiked up, knickers round her ankles  and having a squat over a box in the pub car park.  I started laughing and couldn't stop.

Hey Vandalslut, that's great.  Ranks right up there with: "On pubic display at City Hall."

Another good proof reading tip: make sure the spell check came up with the word you wanted.

[Vandalslut]

49 minutes ago, phoenyx said:

"On pubic display at City Hall."

I bet that drew a crowd! I've got a book somewhere of great and cataclysmic print clangers and a few have artists' renderings of the clanger - I'll have to look it out.  One fave was;  'The workman warmed his hands over a brassiere'.  The pic is better imagined than described.

[Deleted Member]

Vandalslut, Phoenix, your comments are all absolutely brilliant. Ah, the importance of face-to-face conversation to add context and texture to a communication. I also hate it when AutoCarrot “corrects” my text incorrectly.

”AutoCarrot”?AUTOCORRECT!

Txt spk? 1 ov my pet h8s 2. V bad.

I have actually pleasantly surprised at how many contributors to the forums on this site have an excellent command of written English. It’s often a different story in the chat rooms...

[Deleted Member]

If you are interested, be sure to check out the post by Phoenix about writing in the online munch forum. It makes for good reading.

[Vandalslut]

Thanks, Fredddy, that's a lovely compliment. "AutoCarrot"!!!  When I get 'Txtspk' SMSs I just don't answer them on the grounds I haven't the faintest idea what I'm replying to, and therefore might incriminate myself/remove protection from the innocent in favour of the guilty/inadvertently sign up for a timeshare.  I've always been a reader of anything (except chick lit and romances - BLAAAAGGGHH  ) and have always been pretty good at writing and really enjoy it. In chat rooms, everyone in there's in a hurry - especially when there's a mob in there all wanting to be heard.  I shall check out what Phoenyx is  up to in  OnLine Munch but at the moment I'm being flashed at - er - I mean there's a message waiting!  Sorry, too many Carry On films at a crucial age...  By the way, love your idea of conversation 'texture'.

[Deleted Member]

On 11/22/2019 at 10:44 PM, Vandalslut said:

it came up that you have a filter block

I have now updated my filter to say couples, but I still cannot message you. Can you try again, please?

[Vandalslut]

25 minutes ago, DanteReign said:

I have now updated my filter to say couples, but I still cannot message you. Can you try again, please?

Hi, just tried, but I got the same message about the filter block. Might be a tech issue.