Deleted Member Posted November 22, 2021 Posted November 22, 2021 In a thread I just read, a Domme mentioned that she is not interested in subs that are only in it for themselves. This is something that has played on my mind for a while now. The initial stage on a kink journey seems to be very much about ourselves, as we need to understand what we want, why we want it, who we want it with etc. As a sub it then is imperative to make sure we stay safe, thus starts the long list of requirements for a D, the focus still being very much on our own needs. But then surely must come the point when I ask myself: How can a sub show that they are in it for both parties, that for them it is not just about them. Some make sure they please their D, some offer deep trust, that much I have understood. But out of curiosity, how has a sub shown you in the past that she cares about your enjoyment/pleasure/sanity just as much as about her own?
ey**** Posted November 22, 2021 Posted November 22, 2021 One of the big problems is a lot of male subs are very self-centred and focus very much on their fetishes and what they like. Now, it's good to know your fetishes and what you like : but the problem then becomes a lot of subs lead with these so it makes the recipient feel that the guy is more interested in their fetishes than the person. Then of course going the other way is the guys who are just as useless with the "I'll do anything" shtick - that would be anything except learning from mistakes. A good thing about a lot of fetish sites is you can see compatible fetishes with someone without having to discuss them. So you can approach someone you're interested in as if you're interested in, y'know, them.
Je**** Posted November 22, 2021 Posted November 22, 2021 Surely everyone is in it "for themselves". Why can't two people, dominant/submissive, whatever, be in it for themselves.... together?! I mean no one can solely do something just for someone else to be honest..
Carnelian2 Posted November 22, 2021 Posted November 22, 2021 It really is no different from any relationship between two people. There has to be a benefit in it for both parties, otherwise it simply does not work. That could be as simple as the Dom(me) likes impact play and the sub likes to receive it. That works, but probably not as a long-term relationship - so, again, that has to be discussed and agreed. You can look at it as a normal relationship between two people with an additional kink or D/s layer.
Deleted Member Posted November 22, 2021 Author Posted November 22, 2021 For me it is a out knowing the person not just the Dom. How was their day, what did they achieve? How is their cat/dog? Show an interest that's a huge starting point. Then it goes further for example i tbibk cum is one if the most disgusting flavours and consistencies in earth, it's worse than advocados. But I will swallow my Doms cum because it pleases Him. By showing Him my willingness to undertake such tasks I hope I display a desire to please Him, then of course I hope He willi rewardcme with the things I enjoy.
Deleted Member Posted November 22, 2021 Author Posted November 22, 2021 Like in any relationship ,both have to get something out of it.
Je**** Posted November 22, 2021 Posted November 22, 2021 Just now, Pheonix2786 said: For me it is a out knowing the person not just the Dom. How was their day, what did they achieve? How is their cat/dog? Show an interest that's a huge starting point. Then it goes further for example i tbibk cum is one if the most disgusting flavours and consistencies in earth, it's worse than advocados. But I will swallow my Doms cum because it pleases Him. By showing Him my willingness to undertake such tasks I hope I display a desire to please Him, then of course I hope He willi rewardcme with the things I enjoy. Hey! You could do worse than avacados haha. I liked your comment also, just had to mention them haha x
ey**** Posted November 22, 2021 Posted November 22, 2021 10 minutes ago, JenniferTP said: Surely everyone is in it "for themselves". Why can't two people, dominant/submissive, whatever, be in it for themselves.... together?! I mean no one can solely do something just for someone else to be honest.. It feels a bit of a "No, but..." And that's the problem So, particularly in F/m - there's a lot where the m can lead with, or demonstrate, what they would get out of this - but not how the Dominant would benefit. And that's commonly the problem.
Je**** Posted November 22, 2021 Posted November 22, 2021 Just now, eyemblacksheep said: It feels a bit of a "No, but..." And that's the problem So, particularly in F/m - there's a lot where the m can lead with, or demonstrate, what they would get out of this - but not how the Dominant would benefit. And that's commonly the problem. Sorry I don't know what you mean? I didn't intend any butts, perhaps I am not reading the OP right. I just feel everyone does this for themselves, doesn't mean they need to be alone in doing so x
Je**** Posted November 22, 2021 Posted November 22, 2021 5 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said: It feels a bit of a "No, but..." And that's the problem So, particularly in F/m - there's a lot where the m can lead with, or demonstrate, what they would get out of this - but not how the Dominant would benefit. And that's commonly the problem. I have reread OP and I think I know where you are coming from. Everything should be equal within any relationship. Someone shouldn't feel lacking, giving without any give back, both need to be in for the right reasons. I have not been in a D/s as of yet, but I will follow this as to see replies, help me stay educated.
Deleted Member Posted November 22, 2021 Author Posted November 22, 2021 My little saying "without give and take, relationships break."
phoenix_submaso Posted November 22, 2021 Posted November 22, 2021 This is a riddle that's long puzzled me. I've always hoped that any domme I interact with relishes, and is responsible for, the role she's chosen. And there really are A LOT of wickedly awesome dominants out there who don't feel put upon by the subs who GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT. But I gather from questions like these that some subs are being shamed or guilted for being the submissive, sensual, and ravishing beings that dominants so desire. Subs aren't taking anything from dominants. In theory, subs are giving as much to dominants as dominants are giving to subs If a self-appointed dominant doesn't thoroughly get off on being dominant and/or Sadistic (not going to try to cover all the nuances among roles here), then maybe the dominant needs to reevaluate what they really want. To be fair, in every kind of relationship imbalances occur, including in BDSM relationships. Both subs and dominants can be selfish, abusive, manipulative, etc. at times. We're all human, after all. But from a strictly D/s dynamic point of view, I have to say I get a little tired of hearing about the martyrdom of dominants. I'm not sure where it's coming from, because I know a lot of dominants to whom it would never occur to pull the martyr card. I suspect there are other issues going on when dominants feel this way. Just my two cents.
Glitch-5338 Posted November 22, 2021 Posted November 22, 2021 surely if a sub is submitting to a Domme/Dom. Is the Domme not already getting something from the sub. If that sub is submitting willingly. Is this not the main aim of a Dom. To have someone submit and trust the Dom with their very bodies. Their heart. Their soul. They are giving themselves over to being controlled. Which in any other context except BDSM would be considered slavery. Which is technically illegal in most countries of the civilised world. Plus if a Domme and a sub are in a d/s situation. Is it not down to the Dom to discuss and agree terms that are mutualy beneficial to both parties. In the most part. I mean obviously there is room for some selfishness. but this should be accompanied by selflessness. So on one hand the sub swallows the cum of their domme even though they dont like it. So would it not be feasable to agree that something perhaps the domme does not like doing. Yet the sub really wants. Is something that should be discussed and agreed on. I give an example. Perhaps the sub has decided they do not want to shave their hairy parts. The domme might not like hairy parts. But coukd agree to go down on the sub for a limited time. I feel that although the sub is to serve and Dom is to control. There still needs to be open channels of communication. And in many cases except where things may be a hard limit. Some compromise. Or am I missing the point of being a Dom myself.
ey**** Posted November 22, 2021 Posted November 22, 2021 I think some of the key parts being missed. So of course if there are people forming a relationship they will be discussing what they are and are not happy with. (though, a good quote a Domme gave recently is "it's called Female Domination not Female Compromise" - while there's always discussions to be had, if someone approaches, particularly as a submissive, and already starts negotiating or cherry picking they're already a little wide of the mark : this isn't meeting the Dominants wants) But the problem, especially in F/m - is there are men who approach women as a submissive - with a long list of likes, wants and demands as their own starting point (or their own equally useless "I'll do anything you want") Relationships take time to form and of course there will be elements important to the submissive and elements important to the Dominant - and, sometimes I think something that is especially important for male submissives - if someone's likes or structure as a Dominant doesn't fit what you want, you don't have to pursue a relationship with them. You don't have to enter a relationship where you'll be expected to do things you do not want to do - but equally if you're trying to negotiate everything down to your own wants - that's not really submission. Of course - there's other dynamics and structures of kink : but if you are approaching someone as a submissive, the starting position should never be about what you get out of it. (it's obvious what you get out of it - you get to serve someone you think is amazing) If it's something that's build passively, or a relationship has formed elsewhere - this is different - but if you particularly approach someone with a view for them to being your Dominant - sometimes the value of this 'gift' is greatly overstated - because as well, this is a whole bunch of work thrust on someone.
Deleted Member Posted November 22, 2021 Author Posted November 22, 2021 4 hours ago, Pheonix2786 said: My little saying "without give and take, relationships break." Exactly
Deleted Member Posted November 22, 2021 Author Posted November 22, 2021 Does this not come down to either side of the slash treating the other like a kink dispenser? People should enter into dynamics with the right amount of negotiation for them. But going into it expecting the other person to just dish out kink on demand is where the issues lie, in this instance. When I talk to a Dom, it's always with respect, communicating my limits, asking about theirs, asking about their needs and wants - though they are often communicated freely, and then letting them know the things I like, particularly when asked. But I don't make demands. That's not my role. I can't imagine approaching a Dom and telling him I want x, y and z!!
Deleted Member Posted November 22, 2021 Author Posted November 22, 2021 Thanks for all these different viewpoints! As you said Pheonix: 7 hours ago, Pheonix2786 said: For me it is a out knowing the person not just the Dom. How was their day, what did they achieve? How is their cat/dog? Show an interest that's a huge starting point. and your post made me realise that I was thinking more about the non-kinky side of the dynamic when I asked my question. The idea of giving my consent to a certain sexual practice just doesn't seem to cut it for me personally. Sanity and enjoyment goes well beyond the scene and it is this area where I feel it has been a lot about me and my needs and less about the D's so far. So one way I feel I could be there for a D is through not having idealised expectations of them as a person (and I am not speaking about the role here, but the person). I must admit that for a while I thought that an ideal D should be steady as a rock, no matter what, shouldn't ever dither, should have an unshakeable confidence. But this is unrealistic thinking. Just giving room for self-doubts, miscommunications, selfish moments (again: not referring to during a scene here) could be a way to show that I see the D and want to be there for them too. As always, there isn't just one way of doing it, but I would love to be able to establish a dynamic that makes both parties feel seen beyond their roles and preferences.
Deleted Member Posted November 23, 2021 Author Posted November 23, 2021 (edited) I don’t agree with many of the replies. The starting point for a true dominant and what I want to see from a submissive first and foremost is that she wants to please me. From there I’ll take pleasure in using her to that purpose. She’ll enjoy being used, that has to be the nature of a true submissive. Otherwise you’re just a kinkster, a playmate. That arrangement inevitably then evolves into mutual satisfaction. She is my canvas, my sexual palette will colour her and thrill her because we’ve already decided through conversation that we are compatible. Edited November 23, 2021 by Deleted Member
Deleted Member Posted November 23, 2021 Author Posted November 23, 2021 I have found myself wondering if I give enough to my Dom in the more mundane areas, too. He takes taking care of me very seriously and is possibly the most unselfish, unpetty man I have ever met. He’s almost an impossible act to follow in the field of being caring. To set the scene: He is retired, loves to cook and hates being idle, whereas I am quite severely ADHD with a degree in procrastination and chaos and also hate being idle. The first time we met he came to my place and ended up staying a week. He cooked all our meals and, because he was in a stranger’s home with none of his own things round him, he did all the washing up as well so as to have something to do. I was a bit confused to be honest, but there were plenty of other jobs to do, so I wasn’t idle either. These days things are a bit more even because we spend a lot of time at each other’s homes, but he still does most of the cooking and will still also do the washing up without a whimper if he’s at mine just for something to do to keep busy. I’ve used the cooking and washing up as the most obvious example, but there are lots of ways in which he surprises me by how willingly and unselfishly he goes out of his way to care for me. I often feel like perhaps I should have thought of that first (but it’s not him making me feel like that) and if I do think of something that I know will make him happy or make his life easier, I’ll go out of my way too, but, unfortunately for him, I’m often in a distracted, erratic world of my own. Anyway, that was an unnecessarily long way of saying, we both seem to be getting what we want out of the relationship. Perhaps your Dom is too?
Precy Posted December 6, 2021 Posted December 6, 2021 On 11/22/2021 at 2:26 PM, talbo said: Like in any relationship ,both have to get something out of it. True
EmpressKK Posted December 7, 2021 Posted December 7, 2021 I have yet to receive my own pleasure. It's funny, I was talking about this just last night. It seems to me that subs, for the most part, think a Dommes pleasure lies in watching them get their jollies on! Then ask, 'did you enjoy that?' Saying 'I'll do whatever pleases you', then pleasing yourself is a pointless exercise, and guaranteed to eventually make me ignore you!
Subzer0 Posted December 7, 2021 Posted December 7, 2021 Hi Nubian Empress, I hope you are well. I just wrote a message but I don’t fit your criteria so couldn’t send it. I think maybe you have been unlucky because there are subs out there, myself included that get off on knowing we are pleasing our owner even if that means doing things we don’t want to do. There are many things I don’t want to do but find myself excited by someone having the power to make me do them. Yes, there is a separate argument as to whether that means I actually want to do them or not but I can assure you I genuinely believe I don’t want to and yet get turned on by having to. For me the satisfaction comes from the look on an owners face knowing that I’m pleasing them and knowing they’re enjoying that power. Seems to me you just haven’t met the right sub for you yet.
EmpressKK Posted December 7, 2021 Posted December 7, 2021 You may have a point, but to be fair to some I have met, they try, but have yet to fully please ne. It usually ends up with them getting most of the pleasure. I would love to find a real devotee. I shall see what the Universe sends my way.
ey**** Posted December 7, 2021 Posted December 7, 2021 I have found over the years that the "your pleasure is my pleasure" subs are often really hard work. With what should be really easy. That it's different when it's reached that point in a relationship - but as a starting point it ends up with a lot of trying to coax information about what the sub *actually* likes and dislikes - what the actual limits and boundaries are. On top of everything else - there has to be a reason for wanting to serve the Dominant, for wanting to exist for their pleasure - a reason that is better than "they're there"
Subzer0 Posted December 7, 2021 Posted December 7, 2021 I understand that. I guess most of us fail to look beyond what we ourselves are interested in. So the ‘anything’ to please is actually too broad and maybe sometimes taken too literal? I mean I wouldn’t jump in front of a train for my owner if I’m honest. Could it be that deep down we are hoping that what we are into is what pleases you? I have my personal preferences but if my owner isn’t interested in them then there is no enjoyment for me in doing it. I also agree with there needing to be a reason. Maybe that’s why I like blackmail? Someone having full control over you and you will obey like it or not.(except jump in front of a train)!!
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