(In)Equality in D/s dynamics

[he****]

It’s the heat

[E-dUbBs]

1 minute ago, heidelberg328 said:

lol, my phone is having a melt down

Is it a Samsung lol

[DAGDA]

The giving of submission is empowering to a Dom. He doesn't get that without your consent. Equal in value, you are. But different. Remember your submission is not free. The responsibility he must assume is immense.

[Ph****]

In a D/s relationship there has to be communication and clear boundaries. The Sub has the power because the sub is trusting the Dom to hold themselves to the standards set forth. The Sub releases control but has the power to take it back whenever they deem it. No one is inferior or superior it's all about dynamics :)

[Deleted Member]

3 hours ago, FatefulDestiny said:

Looking for thoughts, opinions and/or advice please.

When it comes to D/s does equality exist between a Dom and a sub? I believe that it does but I can’t quite put into words what I mean by this.

I don’t believe that one person having control over the other makes them “higher ranking” or that the person being controlled is less of an equal.

I get and appreciate the power exchange but does this equate to each person not being equal within a relationship? Just because (as my Dom) you can make me do something doesn’t make me inferior to you, does it? Because in my mind (in)equality relates to inferior/superiority and that doesn’t sit well with me in the context of a relationship/dynamic.

Thanks in advance

X

OK so just going to bypass other comments completely...

 

So my thoughts on this.

Dominant and submissive dynamic which is what you asked about

This is a dynamic that at its core is a 50/50 bond that both sides (should) have spent or spending time making sure both sides understand exactly what is going on, how things are going to play out unless something is wrong (this is why safe words matter), that preparation and aftercare are in place 

There is no one who has "power" over another its a mutual understanding of the safe and sub space of one partner being nurtured and exploring new boundaries if wanted etc by the other partner in a way that makes it enjoyable to both white the dom leads the sub so that they can just let go of worries, stress, cares in the moment.

There is only a what's right or wrong for those involved as no 2 dynamics will ever be the same... every dom every sub is different its just a case of finding the dom who matches to what you want, need, desire and evolve into.

 

If there truly is inequality this is a poorly set up and communication by both people so needs addressing.

This is my way of seeing and being which ofcource is going to upset alot of people it doesn't match there views on. So whilst I am allowed my view your all allowed to think or feel differently as this is why subs and doms don't always click together after all =)

Edited June 26 by Deleted Member
I hate auto correct

[Th****]

So many in the comments here aren't getting what the focus is here.

Within the context of D/s equality and power are very different/separate things. I'm not fully caffeinated enough to articulate more, just yet, but will return to elaborate after more coffee is acquired. 

[Deleted Member]

1 minute ago, ThaliaV said:

So many in the comments here aren't getting what the focus is here.

Within the context of D/s equality and power are very different/separate things. I'm not fully caffeinated enough to articulate more, just yet, but will return to elaborate after more coffee is acquired. 

Enjoy coffee time 

[he****]

I do Believe that most are connected, where do you place power if you are equal? Where do you place top and bottom of you are equal ? I suppose she is looking equality of outcome and not equality of opportunity… and I like I said do believe that people here have gotten it. And you can’t have one without the other… but I’m curious what I’m missing… finish your coffee before it gets cold, Eis Kaffee kostet 1) mehr ;)

[AU****]

Something to add to this discussion:

We all have a range of skills. Each coupling will have unequal dynamics in each skill area.
Sometimes particular skill sets may be equal.

For me the beauty is in discovering and exploring the poetry of feminine and masculine combined skills expressed in each encounter.

Encountering a partner where this poetry flows naturally and unspoken is the ideal.

An ability to feel what your partner is feeling and to share pleasure together, whatever the kink situation, can circumvent feelings of inequality.

Unless of course exploring inequality is part of the partners kink.

Inequality in certain skills shouldn't lead to feeling inferior. I wouldn't feel inferior to a grand pianist on a personal level. I would just appreciate their elevated particular skill set. I imagine they would feel similar if witnessing me ***t a masterful artwork.

[Se****]

I feel I need to elaborate, I am referring to equality of people, humans. I am not referring to who has power over whom, that is a different subject entirely.

Equality in the sense that each is a person with thoughts and feelings that ought (depending on the dynamic) to be heard. Equality in the sense that each gives consent, that each has a voice, that each can withdraw consent. Equality in the fact that at the end of the day there are 2 (or more) humans coming together to dance a beautiful dance of give and take, need and desire to create a masterpiece which equals a relationship. 

[Deleted Member]

Great topic..and if you ignore the WhiteKnighting some well thought out replies. Without respect, courtesy, honesty and trust any relationship is doomed. That applies doubly, l feel, within our world. Regardless of the dynamic it needs to be at its core. Yes, l am aware that some dynamics will suspend that in heated moments of play, but it should still be returned to afterwards.
Submission is not a gift. That old chestnut surfaces every once in a while to raise hackles and drag soap boxes out. It is part of an exchange, a symbiosis, a yin and yang, a giving and sharing, a mutual coming together of different needs and seeing if they mesh.
We ALL have different ways, and that is a good thing as it keeps the Lifestyle dynamic in its evolution.

[su****]

In a D/s relationship you are equals that choose to live in a dynamic of inequality. To be able to safely and comfortably discuss what you and your partner are into and what limits you or they might have there has to be a level of equality and respect. This becomes even more true with after care when everything's all said and done.

[ki****]

4 hours ago, heidelberg328 said:

*isn’t

I believe that it would for both slave and sub

[Su****]

It depends on what you and your partner set up before going into your relationship.
Not everyone thinks the same way and has the same views.
So what you might view as inequality your partner doesn’t see it that way so it’s always good to set boundaries have open communication and have a safe word so that way when word is said automatically discussion is open.
If you feel that you are not an equal, have a discussion with your partner and see how you guys can fix things .
Like I said before no matter what dynamic relationship you have, not everyone views, and thinks the same way so the key factor should always be open communication honesty, and trust .
Because your partner can be oblivious to how you feel and think nothing is wrong and he is just in his role 24/7 .
So to answer your question yes it is possible to be equal in an unequal relationship just depends on what you consider equality and present to your partner so they know and now on the same thoughts as you and can respect your equality

[CopperKnob]

3 hours ago, FatefulDestiny said:

I feel I need to elaborate, I am referring to equality of people, humans. I am not referring to who has power over whom, that is a different subject entirely.

Equality in the sense that each is a person with thoughts and feelings that ought (depending on the dynamic) to be heard. Equality in the sense that each gives consent, that each has a voice, that each can withdraw consent. Equality in the fact that at the end of the day there are 2 (or more) humans coming together to dance a beautiful dance of give and take, need and desire to create a masterpiece which equals a relationship. 

I think you've just answered your own question 😉
.
Yes, I agree that there can be equality in any intimate relationship and that comes from an understanding of each other's views/wants/needs within that specific relationship and the ability to make changes as any relationship will change over time not only due to external factors but also again, wants/needs/views.
.
Each of us will have a different viewpoint on what equality means because we're individuals but, over the past couple of decades or so, this is changing within society and this plays into intimate relationships. It's not new by any stretch but there's a big movement regarding emotional labour within a female/male relationship and there's an expectation now that domestic tasks are shared not simply taken on by the women because the man has been at work all day. Most likely the women gas too.
.
But, I also question whether true equality can ever be achieved, particularly within our generation simply because of 'strengths' and that comes down to the patriarchy. As women, we've been 'trained' to care for the family both immediate and extended, we've been taught how to cook and clean. Whereas men, as kids are taught skills outside of the house. To think though that there are "masculine and feminine skills sets" and that this wont/isn't changing (by mentioning it willy nilly as ablove) is utter shit. It's patriarchy/mulisogyny at its worse. The reason I don't know how to change a tyre and my brother does is because I wasn't taught. It's not a skill based on gender otherwise it would be something I couldn't learn to do. It's nothing other than conditioning simple as that.
.
Hopefully the younger generations will experience a greater level of equality than ours does.
.
I'm unsurprised by the gender of those confusing equality with power. It makes sense that there is such a struggle in regards to women striving for equality and why the patriarchy fights back so hard.
.
To get back to the OP, yes there can be equality within a D/s relationship. It starts with respect, consent and an open mind on both sides.

[CopperKnob]

1 minute ago, CopperKnob said:

I think you've just answered your own question 😉
.
Yes, I agree that there can be equality in any intimate relationship and that comes from an understanding of each other's views/wants/needs within that specific relationship and the ability to make changes as any relationship will change over time not only due to external factors but also again, wants/needs/views.
.
Each of us will have a different viewpoint on what equality means because we're individuals but, over the past couple of decades or so, this is changing within society and this plays into intimate relationships. It's not new by any stretch but there's a big movement regarding emotional labour within a female/male relationship and there's an expectation now that domestic tasks are shared not simply taken on by the women because the man has been at work all day. Most likely the women gas too.
.
But, I also question whether true equality can ever be achieved, particularly within our generation simply because of 'strengths' and that comes down to the patriarchy. As women, we've been 'trained' to care for the family both immediate and extended, we've been taught how to cook and clean. Whereas men, as kids are taught skills outside of the house. To think though that there are "masculine and feminine skills sets" and that this wont/isn't changing (by mentioning it willy nilly as ablove) is utter shit. It's patriarchy/mulisogyny at its worse. The reason I don't know how to change a tyre and my brother does is because I wasn't taught. It's not a skill based on gender otherwise it would be something I couldn't learn to do. It's nothing other than conditioning simple as that.
.
Hopefully the younger generations will experience a greater level of equality than ours does.
.
I'm unsurprised by the gender of those confusing equality with power. It makes sense that there is such a struggle in regards to women striving for equality and why the patriarchy fights back so hard.
.
To get back to the OP, yes there can be equality within a D/s relationship. It starts with respect, consent and an open mind on both sides.

The spelling!!

[CopperKnob]

More thoughts (with better spelling - hopefully) which I'll just dump here.
.
Id suggest that healthy D/s relationships are based on both partners being equals and that one person consensually agrees to submit in a way that is mutually beneficial for them both. Submission isn't selfless. We submit because we think we'll benefit from it in some way.
.
Power can't be exchanged without both having power to start with so, both individuals need to be on a relatively equal footing.
.
But I also think that erotica/hollywood has a part to play here, subs are generally depicted as these weak, ***, tiny things that need a big, powerful man to come a long an save her. There's no equality in that relationship, not when the female sub is reliant on the male Dom in that context. And this isn't the case at all, most women, don't need to be saved, we're fine on our own. When/if I meet someone, we will likely be on a more equal footing than previous generations in terms of, I meet my own needs by having my own property and ***.
.
And finally (for now), equality, is not about everyone doing and getting the same thing. It’s about everyone have their needs heard and met

[Da****]

My sub is both my equal and my submissive. My equal as in any real relationship and MY submissive by choice.

[Se****]

58 minutes ago, CopperKnob said:

The spelling!!

I read the post above and was like, wow how clever is she I’ve not even heard of this word. Turns out (after consulting Google) it wasn’t a word - 😂😂😂.

But also, thank you for putting into words what I couldn’t xx

[Shilo66]

 @FatefulDestiny You asked this question 

9 hours ago, FatefulDestiny said:

Looking for thoughts, opinions and/or advice please.

When it comes to D/s does equality exist between a Dom and a sub? I believe that it does but I can’t quite put into words what I mean by this.

I don’t believe that one person having control over the other makes them “higher ranking” or that the person being controlled is less of an equal.

I get and appreciate the power exchange but does this equate to each person not being equal within a relationship? Just because (as my Dom) you can make me do something doesn’t make me inferior to you, does it? Because in my mind (in)equality relates to inferior/superiority and that doesn’t sit well with me in the context of a relationship/dynamic.

Thanks in advance

X

.... and it's been very nicely answered and summarised in these two replies below 

7 hours ago, Cheekysub247 said:

Personally I think everyone has the power, it's called consent. D and s have to consent, its compatibility, limits ect that make a D/s relationship. If they want equality or inequality in their relationship it's up to them.
I'm never equal to my D, I'm very low in the chain. That would be how we do our relationship.

 

7 hours ago, Thequietone said:

I think it’s up to the individuals involved. Some subs might like being ‘inferior’. Allowing a Dom to be in a controlling position doesn’t have to mean ‘inequality’. It all depends i think on your approach, how you have discussed things between you. 

These are the same answers I would've given...

I've noticed that no one else has asked you why you're asking this question / seeking our opinions and advice regarding equality in a D/s dynamic, so, I will... Why are you asking? I'm assuming it's because either someone has made you feel inferior?... told you subs are inferior?... or, you've seen or read something to this effect?... Because to my way of thinking, and obviously many others as well, you simply couldn't have a successful D/s dynamic without the equality and consent and agreement to parameters.

 

 

Edited June 26 by Shilo66

[Se****]

19 minutes ago, Shilo66 said:

I've noticed that no one else has asked you why you're asking this question / seeking our opinions and advice regarding equality in a D/s dynamic, so, I will... Why are you asking? I'm assuming it's because either someone has made you feel inferior?... told you subs are inferior?... or, you've seen or read something to this effect?... Because to my way of thinking, and obviously many others as well, you simply couldn't have a successful D/s dynamic without the equality and consent and agreement to parameters.

 

 

Well spotted, they haven’t. Likely because they realise it isn’t relevant. Your assumption is incorrect, but thank you for asking. 

[Co****]

6 hours ago, FatefulDestiny said:

I feel I need to elaborate, I am referring to equality of people, humans. I am not referring to who has power over whom, that is a different subject entirely.

Equality in the sense that each is a person with thoughts and feelings that ought (depending on the dynamic) to be heard. Equality in the sense that each gives consent, that each has a voice, that each can withdraw consent. Equality in the fact that at the end of the day there are 2 (or more) humans coming together to dance a beautiful dance of give and take, need and desire to create a masterpiece which equals a relationship. 

To the OP thank you for elaborating here, as reading through the comments they were going a bit askew to the original question.

Every relationship/dynamic is different but I agree on your view of equality outside of the power exchange dynamic. Though I would hold expectations that in one of a “slave” or “service” dynamic there are expectations of the S being inferior.

I will still add my “2 cents” to the “power exchange“ comments that were thrown into the convo.
In that it's called a “power exchange” for a reason, and the key term is “in a dynamic”.

In the “negotiation” phase, power has not been “handed over,” a D/s dynamic has yet to be formed, and both D and S as individuals are equal.

The process of setting limits, negotiating on wants, needs, rules, etc. (be it a play scene, relationship, etc.), they are still both equal in their own right. D is still dominant, and S is still submissive. Their conversations may show each of their traits, but again, until they have formed their dynamic, they are equal.

But when consent moves to formation, i.e., play or relationship, when S “hands power” to D, IMO they are no longer equals—why would they be? It is down to D to play, caress, and push those limits however they wish within the limits of their "negotiations.That is what S has handed to D.

And both S and D have cravings that need to be met, that have bought them to be in the dynamic.
S will have the needs and wants they crave in giving up power and trust; likewise, D trusted with the needs of S to fulfil also has their own needs to fulfil. Neither would be fulfilled if they were equal in that exchange.

S may have “the power to take back power and end the exchange,” but remember, D can also end the exchange at anytime too.

[Th****]

So my day ended up keeping me busier than I'd planned and it seems with the OP's elaboration/clarification the conversation shifted back in a better direction. 

My short answer is yes, each person in a relationship or dynamic are equals. No one is truly more superior than anyone else. However. They can negotiate and *choose* what level of power imbalance they wish to have between them. One partner can be subservient to the other or have a lower rank so to speak but even then neither is truly "inferior" as it's a *choice* for them to have the style of relationship they do. Choosing for one  to have power and control over the other does not negate that individual humans are and should be equals. Unfortunately, not everyone believes or accepts this and it's one of society's biggest problems to date. 

[Ni****]

One thing I have told every submissive I've chatted to or played with, is that they are an equal in our relationship. As they are imo.

[my****]

1 hour ago, Coco_De_Leche said:

To the OP thank you for elaborating here, as reading through the comments they were going a bit askew to the original question.

Every relationship/dynamic is different but I agree on your view of equality outside of the power exchange dynamic. Though I would hold expectations that in one of a “slave” or “service” dynamic there are expectations of the S being inferior.

I will still add my “2 cents” to the “power exchange“ comments that were thrown into the convo.
In that it's called a “power exchange” for a reason, and the key term is “in a dynamic”.

In the “negotiation” phase, power has not been “handed over,” a D/s dynamic has yet to be formed, and both D and S as individuals are equal.

The process of setting limits, negotiating on wants, needs, rules, etc. (be it a play scene, relationship, etc.), they are still both equal in their own right. D is still dominant, and S is still submissive. Their conversations may show each of their traits, but again, until they have formed their dynamic, they are equal.

But when consent moves to formation, i.e., play or relationship, when S “hands power” to D, IMO they are no longer equals—why would they be? It is down to D to play, caress, and push those limits however they wish within the limits of their "negotiations.That is what S has handed to D.

And both S and D have cravings that need to be met, that have bought them to be in the dynamic.
S will have the needs and wants they crave in giving up power and trust; likewise, D trusted with the needs of S to fulfil also has their own needs to fulfil. Neither would be fulfilled if they were equal in that exchange.

S may have “the power to take back power and end the exchange,” but remember, D can also end the exchange at anytime too.

I’ve read through most of these and disagree with a lot of them, vehemently. Yours however is the closest I’ve seen to how I see the dynamic. Let’s put a side for a moment the idea that it’s a buffet and there is something at the table for everyone. I accept that and revel in it. Now let’s get past the setting up of the dynamic. Say this is a 24/7 exchange. By its very nature once a sub gives consent to this arrangement she has chosen to live a life of inequality. Apologies to those with alternative pronouns but I’m just not going to he/she/they this thing. The sub depends on her Dom to meet her needs to provide security, care, affection, and any of the other things they have worked out. While she can always take back her power to equalize the dynamic that would also likely end the dynamic. Thinking of it as superiority and inferiority only clouds the issue with negative emotions. Once a power exchange has taken place the Dominant has the power and control that causes the submissive to submit. They are no longer equal, if they were they could switch and the sub would become the dominant. Equality in context indicates a dynamic on pause as if there is a period outside that dynamic. Without the exchange, the gift, consent, whatever you call it there is no dynamic. So equality is a balance point without a dynamic. I am fully aware this will not be well received by most of you but since it’s a buffet I’ll be eating at the table as well. Pass the chicken.