Hard Limits, Triggers & SSC

[Deleted Member]

How do you make sure that play is Safe, Sane & Consensual for everybody that's involved? 

Because what is SSC to one person might not be SSC to another. And that's why it's so important to take the time to discuss limits and triggers with everyone who might be involved in a scene. 

We tend to assume it's just submissive-types who have limits and potential triggers, but actually D-types can have them too, and are being responsible players if they mention them. Sadly, some won't mention them because they think being a D-type means maintaining that tough front. But I would much rather play with a D who admitted his limits. 

Maybe I'm up on my soapbox but something happened on Friday that brought this topic home to me, again. It reminded me that Sane play means respecting what Sane play means to others, not insisting that YOUR version of play is right, or that you know best. And if it's pointed out to you that you're not being Safe, you should step back, take a breath and ask the people involved for some genuine feedback. Not throw your toys out the pram. 

There's no badge of honour for people who have zero limits or triggers. It's probably just a sign that you're a bit in-Sane. 

[Deleted Member]

For sure I agree. Good to know your limits. And discuss that before hand. Likes and dislikes. And a maybe list.

[li****]

When I first met my Sir after of course talking for a good few months we met up and had our first play. I'd been in an abusive relationship years ago that affected everything from my confidence to trust issues ect. My first real D/s experience was not the best I was beaten with a paddle on my ass so hard I was bruised for weeks even thou I said my safe word he didn't even listen and went passed it!!!! I'd gone in to that scene with that so called Dom blinded we didn't even discuss anything before hand I didn't get any aftercare ect, I'd gone in to that scene not knowing about SSC and it scared me that much I took a 6 months break from all things kink related but when I had my first play with Sir he made sure I was aware of what was happening, he talked me through everything made sure I was ok throughout, even knowing I was petrified of the paddle but I knew I could trust him with it!! Of course limits and safe words were discussed beforehand but he made sure everything was safe and consensual. My Sir has his limits also of course but now I know the meaning of SSC I'm happy in any scene me and Sir do in the future.

Edited January 13, 2020 by Lilmonster

[Deleted Member]

Totally agree. I don’t really think there’s anyone among us who doesn’t have triggers , limits or issues. Learning to deal with them carefully and sharing just enough to maintain safety for all but not too much to look a total dick. Not just the Dom but Dommes too x

[Deleted Member]

1 minute ago, Lilmonster said:

When I first met my Sir after of course talking for a good few months we met up and had our first play. I'd been in an abusive relationship years ago that affected everything from my confidence to trust issues ect. My first real D/s experience was not the best I was beaten with a paddle on my ass so hard I was bruised for weeks even thou I said my safe word he didn't even listen and went passed it!!!! I'd gone in to that scene with that so called Dom blinded we didn't even discuss anything before hand I didn't get any aftercare ect, I'd not gone in to that scene knowing about SSC but when I had my first play with Sir he made sure I was aware of what was happening, he talked me through everything made sure I was ok throughout I was petrified of the paddle but I knew I could trust him with it!! Of course limits and safe words were discussed beforehand but he made sure everything was safe and consensual. My Sir has his limits also of course but now I know the meaning of SSC I'm happy in any scene me and Sir do in the future.

@Lilmonster what an awful thing to have happened to you! I really don't know what to say. 

I'm glad you found someone you could trust. Your Sir sounds bit special  

[Deleted Member]

1 minute ago, Aimil2019 said:

Totally agree. I don’t really think there’s anyone among us who doesn’t have triggers , limits or issues. Learning to deal with them carefully and sharing just enough to maintain safety for all but not too much to look a total dick. Not just the Dom but Dommes too x

Thank you for reminding us about the Dommes, @Aimil2019. Sorry if I overlook you sometimes.  

I've played with some Dommes who were super-hot with safety and limits, in fact, I credit one of them for helping me to understand the benefits of using all my safewords to communicate with her. 

[li****]

1 minute ago, white_rose said:

@Lilmonster what an awful thing to have happened to you! I really don't know what to say. 

I'm glad you found someone you could trust. Your Sir sounds bit special  

It's ok it happened nearly three years ago I've had crappy experiences since then but it's all part of the learning process of BDSM and kink I think. We all learn from our mistakes and no one is perfect but we can grow and become better for them. 

 

He is special 😍 

[Deleted Member]

It’s all too easy to think of the Doms I was just levelling the playing field. We all need to be careful. To stay safe and keep our eyes wide open x

[Deleted Member]

@Lilmonster what an absolute prick. That’s not a Dom that’s an ***r 😡 sorry you fell into his hands. Glad you found the right sir now ❤️

[li****]

12 minutes ago, Aimil2019 said:

@Lilmonster what an absolute prick. That’s not a Dom that’s an ***r 😡 sorry you fell into his hands. Glad you found the right sir now ❤️

Thank you and yes I was new to it all and didn't really go in with my eyes open he was definitely an ***r but I think I accepted it cause I was use to it being in the past abusive relationship I was in. But yes I've definitely found the right Sir now and know I'm in good hands ♥️

[LazyPirate]

Personally I prefer RACK rather than SSC because that involves conversations between both parties where risks should be made aware to both parties from both sides. I think what Friday (and knowing what this relates to as I was witness to it virtually and gave my opinion which was disagreed with by the person mentioned) shows is that you need lots of conversation to determine as to suitability of a potential partner when it comes to kink, especially when there are people who can be blasé about some aspects.

 

As I said to @white_rosethe majority of newbies need a mentor in order to ensure they are carrying out things safely and know that it is absolutely fine for them to express their concerns.

Edited January 14, 2020 by LazyPirate

[Deleted Member]

2 minutes ago, LazyPirate said:

Personally I prefer RACK rather than SSC because that involves conversations between both parties where risks should be made aware to both parties from both sides. I think what Friday (and knowing what this relates to as I was witness to it virtually and gave my opinion which was disagreed with by the person mentioned) shows is that you need lots of conversation to determine as to suitability of a potential partner when it comes to kink, especially when there are people who can be blasé about some aspects.

 

I would say I'm RACK now, rather than SSC. But start the conversation with SSC and see where it goes. Yes, lots of conversation is needed. 

[Wo****]

I called Amber on a potential trigger during a convo between a few people. It was ignored by one person who then tried to explain how what they were talking about wasn't a trigger for me.

If safewords are used they're used for a reason.

[Deleted Member]

Forgive my ignorance but what is Rack?

[ey****]

16 minutes ago, Gadget said:

Forgive my ignorance but what is Rack?

Risk. Aware. Consensual. Kink.

(someone did once argue that SSC was a myth as 'sane' is ablist and every kink pretty much has some risk so isn't 'safe' but, I see their point but also the difference) 

So you go into something with an aim of playing safely but being aware there's a risk involved. 

[Wo****]

SSC is a good start but I prefer RACK. 

I didn't know about either of these concepts until I met Pirate, at least not about RACK.

 

Good point about sane.. I mean, c'mon some of the things we may do, breath play for example, they're hardly easily classified as sane are they?

RACK allows for discussion of risks involved and ensuring all parties are aware and consent. Also, what to do if something goes wrong.

 

[Deleted Member]

3 hours ago, LazyPiratesBounty said:

Good point about sane.. I mean, c'mon some of the things we may do, breath play for example, they're hardly easily classified as sane are they?

Actually, the more you read about breath play, the more you realise how it cannot ever be practised safely. At all! This really cannot be considered to be sane. There is always going to be some significant level of risk. That is why I would never advocate doing this, even with someone who is very experienced in it. Because even then, there is no reliable way to predict when you’ve gone too far. Everybody’s physiology is very different. For this reason, I have never ever blocked off somebody’s air supply when practising breath play. My breath play is completely different, as I will explain below.

Most people without specialist medical training will not know that very quickly with asphyxiation, something called PVCs occur. PVC in this case is short for premature ventricular contraction. If one of these premature ventricular contractions happens in a certain phase of the cardiac cycle, it can very quickly lead to ventricular fibrillation. Without wanting to go into too much medical detail here, the long and short of it is that if this happens you are very likely to die, due to the lack of *** supply to the brain. In thousands of studies that have been carried out with health professionals, not even one health professional who has the appropriate knowledge of the relevant physiological changes that take place during asphyxiation has conceded that there is any safe way to carry out breath play involving asphyxiation. The risk of cardiac arrest is very significant. When you understand that the vast majority of people who end up in cardiac arrest, even with rapid and effective CPR treatment, actually do not pull through and subsequently die, you have to ask yourself some very serious questions about whether you want to engage in such a risky activity. There are other ways to get your kinks satisfied safely.

When I refer to breath play in my profile, what I am actually referring to is the use of a rebreather bag. This does not stop the wearer breathing. Rather it alters the breathing has mixture. This can be made to be hypercapnic, that is having a high level of carbon dioxide in it which will increase the rate of breathing, it can include poppers within the breathing loop which has a relaxing effect to the muscles and causes a head rush due to the lowering of the *** pressure, and it can be a really exciting and interesting addition to kinky play.

There is a very big difference between asphyxiation, particularly that involving pressure to the neck, and apnoea, which is the holding of one’s breath for an extended period. With apnoea, preparation is carried out that prepares the body for an extended period of lack of breathing. With asphyxiation this does not take place and therefore the triggers for PVCs can be very strong.

There is a wealth of information about this on the Internet, but I can point people in the right direction if they are curious and want to read more about it from people who are much more knowledgeable than I am. I know enough to stay alive, and I know what I wouldn’t do. Pressure to the neck and asphyxiation is an absolute no-no unless you want to end up on the wrong side of a lawsuit. It’s extremely dangerous. Play safely, kinksters!

[Wo****]

Which is exactly why breath play falls under RACK. Not SSC.

 

"Most people without specialist medical training..." not true.

," not even one health professional who has the appropriate knowledge of the relevant physiological changes that take place during asphyxiation has conceded that there is any safe way to carry out breath play involving asphyxiation."  I'm sorry but seriously??? 

 

The whole point of RACK is that you are risk AWARE

[Deleted Member]

Actually Bounty, if you do the reading (just Google “safe breath play”) there is absolutely loads of information on this on the Internet. There is a particularly good piece by a chap called Jay Wiseman, who has had decades of experience as a paramedic, clinician and numerous other job titles. And he’s joined by dozens of others who share his opinions as stated above.

I certainly don’t think that there are many people in the street would know about PVCs. I think most people would think it’s something that plastic windows are made of! You would expect those with medical training of course to know about this. The majority of kinksters are not medically trained in knowledge of PVCs, that’s a fact.

Anyway, that’s the whole point of the SSC and RACK systems, isn’t it? Everybody can make their own choices as long as they are aware of the risks. 

[ey****]

I think, for example... I love breath play.  But I know that even at my most careful/cautious it carries a risk.  

But, for example, there are certainly factors that greatly increase the risk or bordering on being dangerous / potentially fatal.

Another thing which is never safe, always comes with a risk and people don't realise... any form of rope play.  Because it can damage your nerve endings. 

Obviously, I don't want to sound like a killjoy or the fun police - but I think it's sensible to go in knowing this isn't really safe.

[ca****]

Just reading the above and from my experience - i would say there is quite a lot of 'ignorance' and not knowing out there......  and I include myself in that statement!!!

Thinking back it generally tends to come back to communication and 'joint' responsibility. 

I know someone who suffered some form of nerve ending damage (dont know the full details) but she was just getting in rope / bondage / shibari and had a rigger and seemed to be in a great place (from the imagery that I saw) - in fact it is now a massive part of her life.  I imagine they were pretty careful and vigilant but she still suffered the ***. 
So possibly just unlucky or maybe down to not knowing / preparing up front??

Anyhow having read 'eyems' post above i had a quick google and here's one resource (i am sure there are many)

https://ropestudy.com/courses/101/lessons/reducing-risk/topic/nerves/

 

 

 

 

[Deleted Member]

Black Sheep always talks a lot of sense in these forums. Any advice he gives is always worth listening to.

Callypygian, you’ve absolutely hit the correct point there: there is a lot of ignorance around. Not ignorance in the sense that people are being ignorant deliberately, but as you say, not knowing. Similarly to the rope play issue, breath play is another area where people are ignorant about it. I’ve written about PVCs. Certainly from my discussions with other people, I’ve never yet come across anybody who was actually aware of this. It’s certainly not well-known.
in this day and age of the Internet, everybody is an expert, it seems. And you certainly have to be careful to filter the information that is available, to ensure that what you’re reading is written by people who really know their stuff. However, you don’t have to look very far to find that with regards to breath play there are a great number of articles that caution against any form of asphyxiation.

I remember as a kid, I had a disagreement with my brother, like siblings do, and I put him in a ***hold, having reversed the ***hold that he tried to put on me. The result was astounding. Within 20 seconds I had put him to sleep. It took him over 10!minutes to recovered consciousness. It shows how easy it can be to put somebody to sleep if you press in the right places. Therefore, my advice stands: any form of breath play that involves asphyxiation is extremely dangerous and I would not recommend it.

[LazyPirate]

41 minutes ago, Fredddy said:

in this day and age of the Internet, everybody is an expert, it seems.

I take serious issue with anyone claiming to be an expert in anything to do with kink. There is high level of experience that people can absolutely have but to use the word of expert suggests a blasé attitude towards the potential risks involved.

[Wo****]

56 minutes ago, Fredddy said:

Therefore, my advice stands: any form of breath play that involves asphyxiation is extremely dangerous and I would not recommend it.

You may not choose to practice this, but those who are consenting and aware of the risks involved are surely at liberty to under RACK. Myself and Pirate have previously (and with his healthcare background he was hyoer careful as he is aware of the asphyxiation risk) and will likely do so again.

Edited January 16, 2020 by LazyPiratesBounty
Better wording

[Deleted Member]

Everyone has the right to make their own informed choices, of course. For several decades now, the risks of smoking have been well known, but many people still choose to do it. That’s their choice and that’s fine. There is also risk associated with driving a car, or flying in a plane, but millions of people do it. There are risks with drinking alcohol, but that’s a risk that I consider manageable and I choose to take that risk, drinking as I do in moderation. If we all wrapped ourselves up in cotton wool, life would be pretty boring, wouldn’t it?

There will be some who choose to use asphyxiation as part of their kinky play. That’s their choice. Knowing the risks as I do, it’s not a choice that I would make. But that’s me. I do some other things within my kinky play that some people would consider way too risky for them. But that’s their choice. And that’s also fine.

I do some other things within my kinky play that some people would consider way too risky for them. But that’s their choice. And that’s also fine.

Isn’t it lovely to be part of a community where everybody accepts that people have different views, different experiences and different levels of “normal”? That’s what makes us all such a tolerant and friendly bunch here…