So You Think Breath Play Is Cool

[Ta****]

What im next going to write about ... Is this censorship, really F E A R is starred?! Wow.

[Ki****]

Hi, can you please cite your sources?

I’ve been in the kink scene for a long time, and have researched breath play a lot. In my experiences I’ve found there is very limited ***r reviewed clinical research on the subject. Most of the research I’ve found related to post mortem autoerotic asphyxiation, or martial arts. I’m not saying that breath play is safe, far from it, it’s one of the most dangerous kinks. But some of this info seems questionable. It would be good to see where it came from and do some further reading.

[si****]

Okay so does this still apply if I’m a masochist? 💀

[CopperKnob]

  29 minutes ago, KinkedAndInked said:

Hi, can you please cite your sources?

I’ve been in the kink scene for a long time, and have researched breath play a lot. In my experiences I’ve found there is very limited ***r reviewed clinical research on the subject. Most of the research I’ve found related to post mortem autoerotic asphyxiation, or martial arts. I’m not saying that breath play is safe, far from it, it’s one of the most dangerous kinks. But some of this info seems questionable. It would be good to see where it came from and do some further reading.

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The Institute for Addressing Strangulation hold webinars/provides information for certain professions from which the above was sourced.

[Ki****]

  11 minutes ago, CopperKnob said:

The Institute for Addressing Strangulation hold webinars/provides information for certain professions from which the above was sourced.

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Thanks for that. Good to know

[ey****]

a main takeaway and a main factor

if the person you are with loses consciousness - you're doing it wrong.  This should NEVER be an aim, and if someone states it as their aim (or you feel wouldn't tell you when they are close to going under) then you simply should not play with them.

No matter what type of breath play you engage in (1) you should be aware of how long someone can hold their breath (2) you should be in a position to release immediately should they tap, you need to, or they have gone ***.  (In the event of going ***, that is the immediate end to the play session) 

If you are doing any form of consensual play which takes the other person by surprise (i.e. they haven't had chance to hold breath or take a deep breath) then you have a *much* shorter window to operate than if they have. 

[Se****]

There’s a fabulous person I followed on another site (fetl!fe) called “the kink shrink” and they have previously (and maybe more since I’ve not been on the site) talked about the dangers of this. One of the biggest dangers being that there is no way of knowing how much is too much or how long is too long. It’s interesting stuff (and scary) especially to those of us who enjoy an element of breath play. Knowing that there simply is no safe way to do it whoever you are and however experienced you are is a very sobering thought. 

[da****]

Serendipitouskeeper there is actually a known fact about how much pressure and or how long to apply it and where to apply it, this kink is one that takes time to understand and develop as a Dom and as a sub because a sub who’s used to it may have a longer time before it effects them but a good Dom
Should always know their sub

[Si****]

This is exceptionally well written and great advice. Thanks for the psi numbers. I did not know that.

[Se****]

  8 hours ago, dale46805 said:

Serendipitouskeeper there is actually a known fact about how much pressure and or how long to apply it and where to apply it, this kink is one that takes time to understand and develop as a Dom and as a sub because a sub who’s used to it may have a longer time before it effects them but a good Dom
Should always know their sub

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Thanks but I’ll go with the person who I know has done significant reading around the subject and has extensive knowledge of kink and BDSM in general and continue to believe what I previously wrote until I have further evidence. That isn’t to say you’ve not read around the subject etc but a “good Dom” knowing their sub does not always equal safe. Unfortunately the human body in and of itself dictates that no two people are EXACTLY the same (yes, I’m aware one can generalise and extrapolate data sets and apply them to certain subsets) and slight nuances and variations mean that your statement re how much, how long and where can’t be applied across the board. Being aware of a very experienced friend who practiced breath play (with the same bottom) and one day (despite doing the same things) had a freak outcome if much rather come at it from the stance of “it isn’t safe” rather than “it’s safe if…”. The former urges caution and the latter, in my opinion, takes one down the road of possible blame for an adverse outcome and a belief that it is safe in some way. 

[CopperKnob]

  24 minutes ago, SerendipitousKeeper said:

Thanks but I’ll go with the person who I know has done significant reading around the subject and has extensive knowledge of kink and BDSM in general and continue to believe what I previously wrote until I have further evidence. That isn’t to say you’ve not read around the subject etc but a “good Dom” knowing their sub does not always equal safe. Unfortunately the human body in and of itself dictates that no two people are EXACTLY the same (yes, I’m aware one can generalise and extrapolate data sets and apply them to certain subsets) and slight nuances and variations mean that your statement re how much, how long and where can’t be applied across the board. Being aware of a very experienced friend who practiced breath play (with the same bottom) and one day (despite doing the same things) had a freak outcome if much rather come at it from the stance of “it isn’t safe” rather than “it’s safe if…”. The former urges caution and the latter, in my opinion, takes one down the road of possible blame for an adverse outcome and a belief that it is safe in some way. 

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The latter also has the potential to remove concentration/caution

[ey****]

  30 minutes ago, SerendipitousKeeper said:

but a “good Dom” knowing their sub does not always equal safe.

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Gonna add a little bit - what does that mean?  I mean "A good Dom knows their sub" - it's a phrase that is often used but doesn't mean very much.  Partially as you say that conditions change a lot, and people differ.  Someone with a mild/oncoming chest infection is going to be able to do 'less' than the same person without.  

I'd add a little more - that most of what we do in kink is *not* safe, and that we should all know this. That there is stuff we would do to mitigate risk, but for example anyone who says they are a "Safe Dom" is telling fibs.

[Ri****]

Okay, if it's so dangerous, where are all the deaths? MMA gyms engage in this sort of activity all day. Where are the injured fighters? What data do you have on injuries caused by this?
Yes, it's dangerous, but so is bondage. Nerve Damage can occur in just a few seconds! I read a LOT more *** reports from rope bottoms, but can't say I've seen a lot of reports from breath play ppl.
I don't think it's significantly more risky than most other forms of BDSM play.

[Aphorisms]

SerendiptiousKeeper  you are right to stick to a more professional approach and a medical approach when it comes to this particular subject... Just knowing the sub can get someone injured in this manner. RipRopeSadist in jujitsu we use 2 basic types of ***s a *** *** (which is less dangerous) and an Air *** (which can actually be fatal) *** ***s consist of your Rear Nakeds, Triangles, Guillotines and etc....  *** ***s put pressure on the carotid arteries which will cause you to pass out fairly fast.... Air ***s can put pressure on the trachea which can cause harm to the throat and etc and take minutes instead of seconds and can actually really harm you and be fatal.. So whether its breath play or just learning basic ***s in general its best to grab an understanding on how the carotid arteries work and take more of that approach when applying pressure. There is is less risk for harm and it only takes a few seconds to feel it... I hope this kinda helps people  grasp some understanding...  of this and how it can be applied in the kink world also.. 

 

[De****]

I was told on another post that “choking and asphyxiation is pretty common”. I find that shocking. I think people more often than not put a hand on a throat and that’s it. However, even then you need to research and know the dangers of what you are doing. What if you get excited and squeeze? Things you think about.

[KiaOra]

Respect. Exchange IDs and send to a friend. Better safe than sorry. Get to the bottom of what the giver is wanting. Control? ***? Rush? Get to the bottom of the craving and for gods sakes.... don't play this inexperienced!

[CopperKnob]

  Yesterday at 06:29 PM, RiRopeSadist said:

Okay, if it's so dangerous, where are all the deaths? MMA gyms engage in this sort of activity all day. Where are the injured fighters? What data do you have on injuries caused by this?
Yes, it's dangerous, but so is bondage. Nerve Damage can occur in just a few seconds! I read a LOT more *** reports from rope bottoms, but can't say I've seen a lot of reports from breath play ppl.
I don't think it's significantly more risky than most other forms of BDSM play.

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Someone doesn't need to die for something to be dangerous. I'm also not commenting on MMA, because they aren't the same. But, as someone who is trained in martial arts, absolutely, there are plenty of *** holds that *could limit air supply. The difference being, most of those in sports aren't *** as they might be when engaging in kink (which in itself is an issue). If person 1 taps out, person 2 acts accordingly. there are 'rules' to follow, a referee, an audience, and most engage in sports(wo)manship behaviours.

[hu****]

I think it's important to distinguish between choking and asphyxiation.asphyxiation is stopping air supply whereas choking can either stop or reduce air supply or it can limit *** to the brain via pressure on the carotid artery and vagus nerve.any limit of *** or air supply will cause brain damage within 5 minutes after oxygen supply disappears.the body goes into a "knockout state" to reduce the body's expenditure.sex like MMA should be enjoyed if consential between the two parties

[Jo****]

  Monday at 10:30 PM, CopperKnob said:

Someone doesn't need to die for something to be dangerous. I'm also not commenting on MMA, because they aren't the same. But, as someone who is trained in martial arts, absolutely, there are plenty of *** holds that *could limit air supply. The difference being, most of those in sports aren't *** as they might be when engaging in kink (which in itself is an issue). If person 1 taps out, person 2 acts accordingly. there are 'rules' to follow, a referee, an audience, and most engage in sports(wo)manship behaviours.

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How long have you trained mma? Which arts

[Jo****]

And yes, in mma we have learnt to tap when there is no way out, not the case with strangers

[Mu****]

When I was first introduced to it, I was a little timid. It actually freaked me out. The best part of it, was practicing time and time again. The look in her eyes, as they rolled back, priceless.

[ey****]

gonna say, with the talk about MMA; despite it being a straw argument, there is stuff we can learn from it.

So...

in MMA fighters are told they must tap rather than pass out.   

In kink, this should also be drilled into the sub - any talk of deliberately wishing to pass out should be shut down.

In MMA if someone does not tap, and passes out - the ref stops the fight and the other releases the hold and is awarded a TKO.

in kink, if someone passes out - there's no referee. The Dominant needs to be aware that the other person has passed out and break the move.

In MMA, if someone passes out - the medical team enters to ensure the fighter is safe, allows someone to regain consciousness and then does a professional evaluation

in kink... umm... where's the medical team? Does the Dominant even have first aid knowledge here? Can they fairly make an assessment?

 

And, from that - I'm not saying 'no' on breathe play (I fucking love it and was talking to someone last night who we previously did a really fucking hot breathe play scene together) I'm saying to be aware of the risks and make precautions.

Breathe play is NOT compatible with SSC (it's not safe)

and in terms of RACK - then, you have to be aware of the risk and make precautions for them, if you do not do this, you are not following RACK

and in terms of PRICK - then, again, "Informed" you have to make sure everyone involved is aware of the risks and take responsibility to prevent them. This means tapping out before passing out. This means Releasing if the other person passes out, or you feel they might.  If you are not doing this, you are not adhering to the basic principles of kink