Is my perception wrong?

[Lo****]

  3 minutes ago, gemini_man said:

Yeah, now put yourself in the shoes of those ladies who have a mountain of (mostly inappropriate) messages to sift through in the hope of exercising that "choice" - who daily have to put up with vile and abusive messages, who even if they do find someone they think has potential based on their profile and messages and then decide to meet will always have that *** at the back of their mind that they don't truly know the person and they may turn out to not be quite so charming in person as they are on-line and all of a sudden it doesn't seem they have it quite so easy after all, mental gymnastics or not.

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💯💯💯

[Ba****]

  30 minutes ago, gemini_man said:

The answer is no gender has it "easier" than the others - and this kind of thread will always throw out the "but women have more choice because of all the men" tropes - but just because you have more choice doesn't mean the quality of that choice is good.
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The only difference between the experience of the genders here, is that it's different - not harder, not easier, but different.

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This is exactly it! I was simply working from a numbers perspective, or a messages received one. There’s so any variables though. Thank you for reminding me of this

[ac****]

  9 minutes ago, gemini_man said:

Yeah, now put yourself in the shoes of those ladies who have a mountain of (mostly inappropriate) messages to sift through in the hope of exercising that "choice" - who daily have to put up with vile and abusive messages, who even if they do find someone they think has potential based on their profile and messages and then decide to meet will always have that *** at the back of their mind that they don't truly know the person and they may turn out to not be quite so charming in person as they are on-line and all of a sudden it doesn't seem they have it quite so easy after all, mental gymnastics or not.

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That still doesn’t change the fact that you didn’t send a single message to anyone, or disprove anything I said. If anything, it completely validates my points. You didn’t send a single message to any of those men to initiate conversation, and you had the luxury of “sifting” thru them and taking your pick of the litter. How awful that must be to be that desired by that many people and having the cumbersome chore of deciding which one is worth your time.

[Si****]

Well depending upon the site you're looking at a ratio of 1 to 25 when it comes to guys inquiring about a woman's status or what she wants. So they can be a lot more selective because the volume is there.

[ey****]

  15 minutes ago, gemini_man said:

now I do think there is a need for it to keep the wanking dead at bay but do I think it's fair? Mostly not, but I'm not sure what the answer is to limit an over abundance of single men hoping for easy sex, whilst maintaining a fun and friendly atmosphere for everyone.

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here's an interesting one

swing clubs which do not do gendered pricing do not have an issue

the thing is, there's rules - and folk have to stick to them. If someone comes in, signs up for a membership, is approved, pays for their membership, pays for their entry - then breaks any of the clearly displayed rules - they're out without a refund.  Which is how it should be. 

But you know what most found... where there's no gendered pricing, no, "I paid £x, you owed me sex" 

[ey****]

  6 minutes ago, ace2587 said:

That still doesn’t change the fact that you didn’t send a single message to anyone, or disprove anything I said. If anything, it completely validates my points. You didn’t send a single message to any of those men to initiate conversation, and you had the luxury of “sifting” thru them and taking your pick of the litter. How awful that must be to be that desired by that many people and having the cumbersome chore of deciding which one is worth your time.

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and if you are a guy who is worth no one's time - then it's not the women at fault - it's you for being of no value.

Men who mass message women in the hope of crumbs from the tables will never get more than scraps. 

[ge****]

  11 minutes ago, ace2587 said:

That still doesn’t change the fact that you didn’t send a single message to anyone, or disprove anything I said. If anything, it completely validates my points. You didn’t send a single message to any of those men to initiate conversation, and you had the luxury of “sifting” thru them and taking your pick of the litter. How awful that must be to be that desired by that many people and having the cumbersome chore of deciding which one is worth your time.

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Firstly I'm a man (if the clue in my username didn't make it obvious enough!!) and you have no idea if I sent a message to anyone or not (for the record I rarely do send unsolicited ones as I learned a long time ago it's a mostly fruitless task and there are far easier ways to make connections on sites like this).
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Not sure how you worked out that anything I said validates your point either - though it completely validates my earlier point that women don't have it easier than other genders, they have it "different".
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If you look at it purely from a numbers perspective and the perspective that women don't have to do a thing to receive messages here then yes women have it "easier" but that's way way over simplifying things and completely overlooks the very real problems women do face on a daily basis on sites such as this.
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In fact as a man the perceived difficulties we face, which let's face it from responses on this thread alone come down to not getting replies to messages or interaction are nothing compared to the problems women face when you look beyond the basic number of messages they receive argument.
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As I said earlier, having a plethora of choice doesn't mean the quality of that choice is good.

[Sweetestsadist]

I don't think either gender has it easier. I don't think it's wrong to be picky either. I've gotten so many messages with a simple opening message of "Wanna do (whatever the example is) to me? "
"Oh can I? That's so original. I've been waiting for you to come along.". And when there's a connection and things are going well, need to vet the person. And either they have nobody to vouch for them. Or be unwilling for some type of a background check. We need to be safe. Both ends the dynamic. And it's really unfortunate for the good guys out there that are decent. It ruins it for the good ladies out there when there's chicks that are just out for some type monetary goal. There is no easy way for any of us. So we just keep plugging along, and keep searching.

[Th****]

Sure if by "easier" your only definition is a sea of indiscriminate men who don't view or treat women as people. 

Men aren't competing with other men, they're competing with a woman's peace and safety. They don't even consider the fact that women very often choose *none* 

There's also seemingly an issue that many men don't know what to do once they have a woman's attention. The countless times I've been willing to engage in interacting with someone who's approached me only for them to immediately leave it up to me to keep or get a conversation going.

To answer the question a few have asked if I ever message first, yes I have and yes I still do on occasion but so few men put in the minimum effort of creating an even halfway decent profile to give any indication of who they are as a *whole* person. I've also run into the same issue as @lilheathen501 where many men will waste your time with zero intent to follow through. If you're purely a fantasist and not interested in "real life" and in person interactions you should be transparent about that. 

My experience is that men tend to be their own worst enemies and consistently step on their own dicks leading to them having an even more difficult time than necessary.

Finding compatible partners isn't "easy" in any circumstances, for anyone, regardless of gender and orientation. Then add in the niche sections of society like kink and bdsm and things get even more complicated in part because proximity becomes an issue. But when one adds in counterproductive mindsets and behaviors then you're nearly guaranteed to have a disappointing experience. 

Putting people > kink and doing all you can to *be* a good human and good partner goes a long way in finding a partner or partners. 

[Th****]

  20 minutes ago, Sith_happens said:

Well depending upon the site you're looking at a ratio of 1 to 25 when it comes to guys inquiring about a woman's status or what she wants. So they can be a lot more selective because the volume is there.

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If men would actually read profiles they wouldn't need to "inquire about a woman's status or what she wants" 

Men also seem to think women aren't selective even if the "volume" isn't there. Probably because they themselves are hardly selective at all and for many, literally any body will do and they can't fathom the idea that women don't think the same way. 

[ey****]

There was a post I remember which was a lady ranting about guys who do "social experiments" - you know the ones, they will sign up with a female profile - then get loads of messages with limited effort and then go "see, women have it easier"

But, it's only ever half an experiment.

In fact, it's not even half an experiment.

I mean some of these messages might have somewhat of an effort in (how believable that is depends on the quality of the created profile) but there'll be some "Hey", "Wanna chat", fantasy insertion, possibly some dick pics, etc.

So aside from the crude ones, the guy following the experiment needs to start replying to people.  I mean, the argument is that even a low effort "Hey" or "Wanna chat" *might* go somewhere (spoiler alert: rarely) but they need to start replying

and then from there see how many of the low effort then turn pushy, sexual, etc. after given a response.   And I wouldn't say that's easy, you're chatting with someone you thought would be nice to chat to and they're not - that's not "easy" that's pretty hardgoing 

and then some of the others... yes, they want to chat - but they will no doubt push the burden of chatting onto you, and that is in itself creating labour... they want to chat but will leave it to the woman to carry the conversation and THEN accuse her of ghosting when she gives up or has had enough of small talk Hell.

Perhaps it's easier for a woman if her standards are zero and she just wants cock ASAP - but - here's something, if you're a man with any self respect, you wouldn't take that anyway.   

 

[Th****]

  2 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

There was a post I remember which was a lady ranting about guys who do "social experiments" - you know the ones, they will sign up with a female profile - then get loads of messages with limited effort and then go "see, women have it easier"

But, it's only ever half an experiment.

In fact, it's not even half an experiment.

I mean some of these messages might have somewhat of an effort in (how believable that is depends on the quality of the created profile) but there'll be some "Hey", "Wanna chat", fantasy insertion, possibly some dick pics, etc.

So aside from the crude ones, the guy following the experiment needs to start replying to people.  I mean, the argument is that even a low effort "Hey" or "Wanna chat" *might* go somewhere (spoiler alert: rarely) but they need to start replying

and then from there see how many of the low effort then turn pushy, sexual, etc. after given a response.   And I wouldn't say that's easy, you're chatting with someone you thought would be nice to chat to and they're not - that's not "easy" that's pretty hardgoing 

and then some of the others... yes, they want to chat - but they will no doubt push the burden of chatting onto you, and that is in itself creating labour... they want to chat but will leave it to the woman to carry the conversation and THEN accuse her of ghosting when she gives up or has had enough of small talk Hell.

Perhaps it's easier for a woman if her standards are zero and she just wants cock ASAP - but - here's something, if you're a man with any self respect, you wouldn't take that anyway.   

 

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Many of the ones that might appear to have some effort behind them are actually copy/paste as well. Women know this, have come to be able to recognize them and they talk to each other and compare notes. 

[cs****]

I think the issue most guys have is that their interest in sex/kink is quite often perceived as purely lustful, or physical or transactional. It's difficult to break that barrier and get to a point where someone can understand that it's more about the connection, intimacy and sharing that with someone else. I might be the outlier though because as much as I lean towards a kink dynamic in relationships and enjoy sex I've never been one to sleep around and thats probably difficult for most to believe because "all guys want is sex". It's not really the sex I want, it's the deep levels of intimacy, trust, and understanding associated with it.

[ey****]

  9 minutes ago, ThaliaV said:

Many of the ones that might appear to have some effort behind them are actually copy/paste as well. Women know this, have come to be able to recognize them and they talk to each other and compare notes. 

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Never underestimate the power of the group chat

or the two ladies in the same room together who both get the same message at the same time!

Over on fetlife, I had to turn the mailbox filters onto one of my accounts - it (should) have been blatantly obvious it's a guy (and me) on the profile, but people not reading profiles - and some of the copy/paste messages I'd be impressed with if it wasn't for the fact I could see there's no way they could have got that if they'd actually read the profile.  

[Th****]

  1 minute ago, eyemblacksheep said:

Never underestimate the power of the group chat

or the two ladies in the same room together who both get the same message at the same time!

Over on fetlife, I had to turn the mailbox filters onto one of my accounts - it (should) have been blatantly obvious it's a guy (and me) on the profile, but people not reading profiles - and some of the copy/paste messages I'd be impressed with if it wasn't for the fact I could see there's no way they could have got that if they'd actually read the profile.  

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The more convincing ones also become obvious when you're willing to engage in conversation and they struggle to be nearly as articulate or interesting as that initial message. 

[ey****]

  2 minutes ago, ThaliaV said:

The more convincing ones also become obvious when you're willing to engage in conversation and they struggle to be nearly as articulate or interesting as that initial message. 

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yep, which becomes so self defeating.

[Th****]

  11 minutes ago, cs19904 said:

I think the issue most guys have is that their interest in sex/kink is quite often perceived as purely lustful, or physical or transactional.

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If other people's perceptions are consistent then the logical conclusion should be there might be an issue with how you're presenting yourself. For many men their interests *are* "purely lustful, or physical, or transactional." 

 

[CopperKnob]

I feel that it's easier for women to get attention than men.
I disagree that women find it easier than men to embark upon relationships. I'd suggest it's hard for all generally but particularly when adding any kink

[CopperKnob]

  46 minutes ago, ThaliaV said:

If men would actually read profiles they wouldn't need to "inquire about a woman's status or what she wants" 

Men also seem to think women aren't selective even if the "volume" isn't there. Probably because they themselves are hardly selective at all and for many, literally any body will do and they can't fathom the idea that women don't think the same way. 

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This was really evident from the worst dates OP and the other one with a title such as 'even men have to say no' many of the incidences/misunderstandings wouldn't have occurred should better selection skills have been utilised.

[ac****]

Mental gymnastics, the lot of it. It doesn’t matter what you are or aren’t looking for. It doesn’t matter that all of the men messaging you aren’t your idea of perfect. The simple fact is you have far more opportunities to find a meaningful connection, therefore it is easier. It’s like two people playing the lottery - one person has 100 tickets and the other has only 1. Also I find the complaints that are to the effect of “I was interested, but he didn’t read my mind and make the next move” amusing. Again, it is the socially assumed responsibility of the male to do every last thing.

[ey****]

And another thing... sorry Columboing

when folk talk about 'easier' in M & F - it ignores that the women who are meeting people for dates, having sexy fun times, starting relationships, taking on subs, being a sub to a Dominant, etc etc etc are doing it... dun dun dun... with men.

And of course you get the lazy ass "but the ratio...." when that as something has long since been debunked.   If folk keep blaming stuff instead of looking to what would make them more appealing to reply to, to meet, to have sexy fun times with, to take on, etc then they are never going to get what they want instead blaming everyone except taking on any form of responsibility to look or act more appealing. 

 

[ge****]

  2 hours ago, eyemblacksheep said:

here's an interesting one

swing clubs which do not do gendered pricing do not have an issue

the thing is, there's rules - and folk have to stick to them. If someone comes in, signs up for a membership, is approved, pays for their membership, pays for their entry - then breaks any of the clearly displayed rules - they're out without a refund.  Which is how it should be. 

But you know what most found... where there's no gendered pricing, no, "I paid £x, you owed me sex" 

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An interesting point for sure - and one that makes perfect sense - and as I said works perfectly for kink events, where you rarely see instances of the wanking dead or behaviour unbecoming

[ac****]

All I am interested in is the truth, as it relates to the OP. Not popularity contests or making excuses for anyone, and certainly not suggesting that you place further burden upon men to be more appealing. That would likely exacerbate the situation we are talking about where women have free license to not lift a finger and can just blame a guy for not being appealing enough or not knowing how to hold a woman’s attention after he has it. That is a cop out to do nothing.

[ac****]

It’s jumping ship to the next guy rather than put in an ounce of effort - unthinkable, I know

[Vi****]

I've always said in all things sex, whether it be simple vanilla sex, kink, dating etc, womenxhavexmich easier times finding partners because there are a lot more people out there looking for pussy than looking for dick. Obviously, this in no way equates to quality partners, just volume. I'd say on average a man is willing to do kinkier stuff to get the pussy they want than women are willing to to get the dick they want. There are awful people on both sides and everybody finds partners that suck but I would be inclined to believe women definitely have an easier time in finding partners.