I'm a cruel, scary sadist, and you should avoid even talking to me! (Or, the Conundrum of Vanilla Understanding En***d within the BDSM Realm.)

[Phoenyx]

@Cade I am seeing two distinct scenarios here.  In your earlier post, I got the impression that you were discussing a public demo.  Hence, the suggestion of an introduction speech.  It would not have been so much of a "disclaimer", as an explanation---a way to get those attending on the same page as you.

However, I now gather, that you were referring to a dungeon event.  With that in mind, I suspect that the dynamic was something different than what you suspected.  Your session may been so loud and raucous, that it actually was interfering with the scenes around you.  From the complaints that you mentioned, could that have been a possibility?  Did the DM discuss this with you, after the fact?  And yes, in my day,  I was also elected to do my share of Monitor duties.  So, I can easily relate.

You mentioned the distinction between D/s and s/m.  Yes, they are two distinctly different forms of play.  It is literally the difference between a high-protocol dinner and a dungeon event.  However, they tend to constantly overlap.  For me, part of being a sadist, is the thought that I can do with my "property", as I please---a definite D/s concept.  Conversely, during a D/s scene, there is always the delicious thought of "fun-ishment".  One could even lead to the other, in a single scene.  Then, there is b/d, which seems to tie it all together.  Nothing says dominance more, than a poor slave, ***ly locked in my leather!  (Of course, I am referring to toys, not my personal apparel)  For the slave so bound (and possibly gagged) total submission becomes the only option.  Even here, the sadist comes into play, as I dangle the keys before her eyes, or jingle them next to her ear.  Of course, this is all done in fun.

You expressed concern, over possibly being denied the experience, due to the naïveté of others.  I am not sure what you mean by that.  Are you saying, that you are that easily distracted, during a scene?  When I am "in play", I become oblivious to the outside world.  A power bubble forms around me---a kind of "Sphere of Influence".  My entire universe now resides within that sphere.  Anything beyond, no longer exists.

[Cade]

@phoenyx Going off-topic, but for the sake of clarification: it was personal play in a dungeon at an annual lifestyle convention, I'm sure you're familiar with them - weekend in a hotel with classes during the day and play all night. On the play intensity scale in which public play parties are low intensity scenes and membership only dungeon/community centers are high, I'd place convention level dungeons at ultra high, allowing and showcasing more extreme and uncommon forms of play. Additionally, this particular convention boasted three separate dungeons: the main dungeon (where my scene happened due to space requirements, this was the largest of the play spaces with a live dj), the mellow room (as the name implied, music was softer and less beat driven - a quiet play space), and the messy room dungeon (lined in plastic for wax or other messy activities). The DM staff was familiar with me and my play so my scene was not interrupted, but I was made aware of the voiced concerns after. Rather than stopping our play, they opted to educate on the diversity of the scene.

I think you may be correct: my scene might have disrupted another's scene. I have to admit, this is a distinct possibility! Comically, we asked the exact same question, but in different directions; I'm going to smoosh two of your sentences together to try to illustrate my point.

"Your session may been so loud and raucous, that it actually was interfering with the scenes around you."

"Are you saying, that you are that easily distracted, during a scene?"

Now, I return to my point in this slip of topic: what is appropriate in the play space of a dungeon? Would you not expect to hear screams, and therefore, it wouldn't interfere with your scene? Or, were you that person that went to the football game and expected everyone to be silent when their team scored? Now, don't get me wrong, there are unacceptable noise on the floor, as I'm sure you'd agree, but certainly honest reactions to the sensations one is experiencing, living in the moment, should not be on that list. We were having our scene, while gritty and scary and loud, was in the appropriate venue for such to occur.
No, I'm not easily distracted, much like you - most the world ceases to exist in my more intense scenes. However, this doesn't mean I'm not aware of the DM, which just seems like a courtesy no matter what level you play at.
The scene I explained was amazing, and far exceeded my expectations, as did my kitty. I was very proud of her, and she proud of the beautiful marks and bruises she carried. In different circumstances, a different DM staff for example, that scene would have been stopped short of either our sate, because someone couldn't keep their head space and got distracted by my scene. This sadly very real possibility is what needs be avoided is what I meant, for anyone.

Edited June 7, 2020 by Cade

[Phoenyx]

It sounds like the staff handled it properly---they approached you after the fact, as I mentioned.  It does sound like someone else was easily distracted.  We all have days like that.  Really, it was a judgement call, on the part of the staff.

On a personal note, you shouldn't let little things like that, get to you.  You seem to forget, we operate in a realm where emotions run high.  Little things might seem big.  But, they're forgotten after 5 minutes.  You're a Dom.  It should all be like water off a duck's back.  If you do screw-up, make your apologies, learn from it, and move on.  That is how you earn respect.  Or, is something more serious, more personal, eating at you?

Which, reminds me of something that I have been meaning to ask.  Are you currently involved in a local scene?  Or, did that take place at a former locale?  If you have read my profile, you know why I am asking this particular question.  Or, should we take this to the PM channels?

Your mention of the "Lifestyle Convention" brings back one particular memory.  I forget what we called it.  But, it took place at a hotel and nightclub in Hollywood, right across the street from the famous Grauman's Chinese Theater (the one with the footprints and handprints of the stars, in the cement).  This particular nightclub also had a large dungeon space in the back.  Only in Hollywood.  I was introduced to the host, who was a big in the scene, at the time.  I wish that I could recall his name.  I also remember, one evening, having a long shop-talk chat with a dominatrix from Chicago, over drinks.

On one of those days, a group of us decided to play "Shock the Vanillas" at Disneyland.  It was a new experience for everyone there, except me.  A buddy and I, and our lady friends, had pulled the same stunt, a couple years earlier.  Well, all went well at Disneyburg, until about half-way through our stay.  Suddenly, we were pulled aside by Mouse security.  (forgive me, if I can't keep a straight face)  We weren't causing any trouble.  Nor, were we carrying any knives or ceremonial daggers (that had to be a first).  So, they just told us to remove any spikes and/or sharp objects from our leather, and sent us on our way.  Of course, both Disney trips that I mentioned, took place in February.  No way, we could have worn all that leather, in July!

[Cade]

Still part of the local scene (in good standing), help manage a monthly play party (sometimes two), still work events and conventions in several areas from organization to security, regular at a few of the local dungeons that I support and frequent, and much in between. I greatly enjoy my local public scene; in it, I met many amazing individuals that helped shaped my lifestyle and supported me through my transition from vanilla fantasy to lifestyle reality. I like to think I'm honoring them by carrying on their practices, like spreading awareness and educating, to others that are looking for something *more*. You ask me why I'm bothered when I see the vanilla world creeping in, trying to gentrify a culture with an already proud and rich history, with traditions and rituals all its own - being pushed out of the community that birthed it because it might offend new people that never intend to live it as a lifestyle?

I won't ask you why that doesn't bother you, and we will leave it at that. Thank you for the discussion.

[Phoenyx]

I know exactly what you are talking about.  Back in 1999, I saw our entire San Francisco community get torpedoed by gentri-forniaction and rich, young, arrogant tech-nistas.  Think about that, next time you log onto Fakebook, or anything similar.  Our ship was sent straight to the bottom, and our community was ***tered to the winds.  It wasn't a mere creep---more like the assault of Normandy Beach.  We were literally priced out of our own homes, and our venues fell victim to bulldozers and wrecking-balls.

I ended-up in this podunk Texas town, where even "vanilla' is considered too spicy.  My former mentor---the dominatrix who trained me---now lives just an hour up the Interstate from you.  As for the rest, I'll never know.  The supposedly "seedy" warehouse district, that once hosted our many underground clubs and dungeon spaces, is now nothing but high-rise luxury condos, pricey, upscale, vanilla boutiques, and overpriced, snooty restaurants.  So, if anyone has a reason to bear a grudge...

[Cade]

@Vandalslut "A recent post contained the remark that the poster felt that he did not have to accept anyone's triggers.  He wasn't being asked to accept anyone's triggers. How on earth  the triggers of other people were affecting this person, I have no idea."

 

I didn't want to hijack the other post with a topic discussed here, so I'm sure you'll understand why I returned to this thread to discuss this. Here is a general example of the situation I'm pointing out in regards to triggers, simplified:

 

You have a trigger.

You go to a public/communal space where it is acceptable and likely for said trigger to occur.

Triggering activity occurs, not directly to you, but in someone else's scene that doesn't include you.

Triggered, you complain to the staff that in the spirit of "protecting the victim", decides the activity that caused triggering is no longer acceptable so you won't be triggered anymore.

Many people that practiced that activity, perhaps only at this location as it may be the only acceptable venue, are no longer able to explore it, because of your trigger.

 

I'm not sure how you could miss this happening as there are several fetish activities that have suffered this; whip cracking and stungun shocking (loud noises) are commonly attacked in this manner, but it really can be any activity one might be triggered by (which well may include any activity). One prevalent activity I've experienced it in firsthand is screams obviously.

Now you have some idea, I hope.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Cade

[Phoenyx]

C'mon @Cade, you're not doing yourself any favors.  You have been stuck on this one topic, for a seeming eternity.  You need to get past it.  OK, you screwed-up.  You had an over-the-top scene in a shared venue, and you got a talking-to from the Monitors.  It may have even been a butt-chewing.  It happens!  What veteran player hasn't had that experience?  At least, it wasn't the proverbial "86".

Part of being a Dom, is having the ability to maneuver through the complexities of human nature.  Hell, part of the fun of being a Dom, is maneuvering the complexities of human nature!  I entered The Scene, at around the same age that you did.  By the time I reached the age that you are now, I had already been working as a Pro for several years.  I was even running my own underground nightclub show.  No, I am not trying to brag.  I am merely attempting to point-out, that with your talent, your passion, your experience, you should have achieved the same thing, by now.

Instead, you wish to let your own limits, your own triggers, your own idiosyncrasies get in your way.  You want to stamp your feet, and demand that Life build an Interstate from where you are standing, to where you wish to go---an Interstate with no speed limits, I might add.  If you had a Porsche, would you be satisfied with just taking it out on some flat, boring highway, simply to see how fast it would go?  Or, would you rather test your driving skills, on a twisty, unpredictable, mountain road?

Frankly, you insist upon remaining rooted to the same spot, rather than relaxing, and letting your talents and passions carry you to your desired destination.  Instead of enjoying the journey, you would rather shoot yourself in the foot.  You seriously need to quit being so pig-headed.  You need to stop alienating those who would be your friends, with anger and bitterness.  I doubt that very many even read your posts anymore.  It's always the same, old, "Blah, blah, blah..."

So, why not share some of your insights with those who have questions, or relate an account of one of your happier adventures---sans attitude.  Surely, you have a few humorous stories to tell.  You definitely have some damage control to do.  Even I am growing weary of attempting to educate you.  You need to take a good look at yourself in the mirror, before you find yourself totally alone.  Anyway, I sincerely hope that this helps.

[Wo****]

@Cade

Going somewhere, like a club, is a different scenario.

I had a trigger based around medical play. One night the theme was "doctors and nurses" 

I discussed the possibility that I may be triggered by something with Pirate. As it happens, there was no need for concern but if there were, as a responsible submissive aware of my triggers if  wouldn't, won't, put myself in a situation where I'm likely to get triggered.

 

I had a group chat a few months back, the chat started towards triggering me so I called red.... then had several days of explaining to someone why I thought they were a complete dick for failing to respect my trigger. I never blamed him for triggering something, I DID blame him for how he insisted my trigger wasn't a trigger because it wasn't directly involved with medical play. Not the point. The point is, I'm aware of my trigger, I tell people about it. I don't inflict it on people, it's MY trigger. MY reaction. My problem but if I tell you it exists then it deserves to be respected, the same way I respect that no one but myself is responsible for my triggers.

[Cade]

@phoenyx You seem to be so far off topic and have missed the point so incredibly, that I literally have no clue what point you're trying to make. So, for shared understanding, I'm going to outline my point. Think of this as the "tl;dr" version! Haha.

*As a community, we need to protect our rich cultural history, traditions, and practices from being limited and negated, lost in the era of a superficial 50 Shades understanding of BDSM. My opinion is that we are losing our culture to incoming vanilla understanding being en***d upon it; such that, if you do not conform to the media friendly or political correct propaganda, you are unjustly branded unsafe, insane, or unethical, and pushed out of the community that should be supportive and accepting of such consensual dynamics/lifestyles.*

If you don't agree with this, I welcome you to make a counterpoint with your observations and supporting information. If you don't want this discussion to continue, you simply do not have to click on my forum post to avoid reading my words. However, this discussion is an exchange of opinions and ideas, people will or will not contribute as they so choose. If you can't understand why I won't just "drop it" when it comes to standing up for the community that helped me find and accept myself (and many others), I'm obviously unable to explain it to you.
There is good news, though! You have voiced your opinions and assumptions of me quite clearly; you no longer need criticize or try to discredit me, there is no pissing contest to continue, and I have no desire to compare achievements with you. Frankly speaking, I do not desire to get to know the individual you represent yourself as, and as you think you know everything about me already, there really is just no reason for you and I to talk further. Thank you for your input.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Cade

[Cade]

8 hours ago, LazyPiratesBounty said:

@Cade

Going somewhere, like a club, is a different scenario.

I had a trigger based around medical play. One night the theme was "doctors and nurses" 

I discussed the possibility that I may be triggered by something with Pirate. As it happens, there was no need for concern but if there were, as a responsible submissive aware of my triggers if  wouldn't, won't, put myself in a situation where I'm likely to get triggered.

 

I had a group chat a few months back, the chat started towards triggering me so I called red.... then had several days of explaining to someone why I thought they were a complete dick for failing to respect my trigger. I never blamed him for triggering something, I DID blame him for how he insisted my trigger wasn't a trigger because it wasn't directly involved with medical play. Not the point. The point is, I'm aware of my trigger, I tell people about it. I don't inflict it on people, it's MY trigger. MY reaction. My problem but if I tell you it exists then it deserves to be respected, the same way I respect that no one but myself is responsible for my triggers.

Yes, totally different situations, I agree. I wish the way you handled your triggers was universal; it's easier to get emotional and complain, though. Perhaps, that's the problem. That's a whole different discussion, though.

The respect you deserve in regards to your triggers is that they aren't questioned, denied, belittled, criticized, etc. I obviously can't tell you how you feel or why you feel that way! But in that same token, even if you tell me your trigger, I shouldn't need to avoid an activity/topic of discussion for myself because of your trigger unless I consent to such, right? You definitely made the point I'm getting at considering how our triggers should affect others:

8 hours ago, LazyPiratesBounty said:

The point is, I'm aware of my trigger, I tell people about it. I don't inflict it on people, it's MY trigger. MY reaction. My problem but if I tell you it exists then it deserves to be respected, the same way I respect that no one but myself is responsible for my triggers.

THIS. Eloquently put, kudos.

[Vandalslut]

On 6/9/2020 at 2:09 PM, Cade said:

"A recent post contained the remark that the poster felt that he did not have to accept anyone's triggers.  He wasn't being asked to accept anyone's triggers. How on earth  the triggers of other people were affecting this person, I have no idea."

I didn't want to hijack the other post with a topic discussed here, so I'm sure you'll understand why I returned to this thread to discuss this. Here is a general example of the situation I'm pointing out in regards to triggers, simplified:

You have a trigger.

You go to a public/communal space where it is acceptable and likely for said trigger to occur.

Triggering activity occurs, not directly to you, but in someone else's scene that doesn't include you.

Triggered, you complain to the staff that in the spirit of "protecting the victim", decides the activity that caused triggering is no longer acceptable so you won't be triggered anymore.

Many people that practiced that activity, perhaps only at this location as it may be the only acceptable venue, are no longer able to explore it, because of your trigger.

I'm not sure how you could miss this happening as there are several fetish activities that have suffered this; whip cracking and stungun shocking (loud noises) are commonly attacked in this manner, but it really can be any activity one might be triggered by (which well may include any activity). One prevalent activity I've experienced it in firsthand is screams obviously.

Now you have some idea, I hope.

@CadeFirst of all,  I haven't complained to 'staff' about anything, you included. I have not 'demanded' protection for anyone.  Everyone here is an adult and I'm sure they can protect themselves, if need be, more than adequately. I have made no 'offical' complaints because there was nothing to complain about. For future reference, if there is a complaint made about a post, the post is removed or the Moderators may choose to close a thread down. Neither has happened. So kindly get your facts straight before launching unfounded and untrue accusations.

That makes the rest of your off-aim blast completely irrelevant.  Now you have some idea, I hope.

After 37 years, I have yet to find a trigger within myself. Loud noises, stun guns, whip-cracking, brush-tail possums having sex on the roof, what the hell ever. There are activities we prefer not to do, which is a mutual agreement between my Dominant and myself. Whatever we agree or choose to do or not do, is the Vandal's business, my business and no-one else's business. To continue:  What you, or anyone else does - with limits or without, with safe words or without, with triggers or without - is none of our business. We do not care what you do, how you do it, where you do it or who you do it with. We have no interest whatsoever. I trust that's clear enough? 

Ever since this discussion started, your posts have had some very notable repeating themes, with a few attempts at subliminal prompts. You are 'not allowed' to live the life you want. You should not have to 'hide'.  'Vanilla values' are 'interfering' with the way you want to live your life and are encroaching on the BDSM world. That your 'no limits' dynamic is 'belittled'. There have been 'rebukes'.

A few members responded to a thread on limits. They have made different lifestyle choices to you. They would prefer limits; you prefer no limits. Good for you. And you have not let up since. You seem to have interpreted different choices as criticism and disapproval for your choices. It is not criticism or disapproval. It is a DIFFERENT CHOICE. They have made a choice that suits them, for whatever reasons.  That is all it is. No-one here has insisted that you 'hide' or that you 'must' live a lifestyle that is not true to your dynamic, belief or values. No-one here has 'belittled' your dynamic. No-one here has made you an 'outsider', apart from yourself.

You have referred several times to the need for freedom, tolerance and acceptance in the community - and then immediately got going on what you refuse to accept or tolerate on the grounds that acceptance or toleration of that which you do not agree with means that your 'normal activities need to cease' and that is unacceptable to you.  Apparently freedom, tolerance and acceptance are your exclusive rights. An attitude like that will certainly not bring a community to 'stand together'.

"It's your trigger, and should not be expected to limit my life, as an outsider to your world."

"It is not physically or mentally healthy for something that doesn't include you to impact you so much that the normal activities of others needs to be ceased. Further more, it's not acceptable, at least, in my community."

No-one here has insisted that you cease any normal activity or indeed, any sort of activity. Go ahead. Act any way you want. It will not bother the Vandal or I. We will not, however, speak for the rest of the community here. If your activities bother anyone here, you will have to take it up with them.

"It's time to no longer be bullied by intolerance and ignorance, but time to combat them."  Yes, good idea.  We do not want to be bullied by you because we have had the temerity to make different choices. And this reads as if you have been bullied.  Again, no-one here has 'bullied' you.  You are the one trying to bully and you are the one displaying intolerance to those who have made a different choice of dynamic. So who has bullied you?

You say you were marginalised, isolated, vilified, made to feel an abomination, a freak - so have many members here, one way or another.

"If the consideration was simply living my lifestyle the way I wanted, certainly, I can do that on my own. There's a greater goal at hand, however: the desire not to have to live our lifestyle in secret for *** of social ramifications, but to be accepted and have the same civil protections every consensual relationship should have."

If you can live your lifestyle on your own, then do so. In your statement, 'I' becomes 'our' - not 'my'. Which is interesting, as if you need 'numbers' or a suggestion of support to validate your choices. We do not need validation.  You say you are respected in your community, inferring there are those who are of like mind; so how will you be 'on your own'?  If you feel you have to live the lifestyle you want in secret, then that is something for you to change, or deal with, as is your *** of social ramifications. You have evidenced contempt for the 'vanilla' world and its rules; why do you need its acceptance?

You make plenty of references to your experience, your years in the culture, the respect you have in the community, successful events etc. You have all this, so why are a few people who choose differently suddenly so very vital to you?

It is as if someone in your immediate world has 'rattled your cage' most severely or that you have been told that you may not do thus or so, or live as you want and by someone in authority or law; it has been a cataclysm and has set off this repeating theme of persecution, the world is against you, all these complaints that you are not allowed to do just as you want,  complete with accusations of 'reporting'.  No-one here is interested in persecuting you,  as you have begun this ongoing sledge-hammer diatribe before anyone responded in any way, shape or form - positively, negatively, whatever, and you have not let up since.

So I have told you the truth - I do believe in live and let live, each to their own, whatever does it for you. The Vandal and I live it. "Do what you like - if it comes over the fence and if it bothers us, then we'll deal with it." You have not come over our fence either physically or metaphysically, therefore, do what you like.  You are at liberty to visit our profile and go back through our posts - I have stated our 'Live and live live, each unto their own' belief in these fora many times and on a variety of topics. You, me, them, everyone - go for it. Whatever. Have a great time. And just so as it's really really clear - I have no idea who 'reported' you to staff and it was most certainly NOT me. There was nothing to 'report'.

 

 

 

 

[Cade]

@Vandalslut Being upfront and honest, I didn't read most your response. You started off hot, assuming I was accusing you of something. I made a general example, not even considering a virtual website, but a dungeon/play party environment. I admit, I shouldn't have chosen "you" as the example individual - I did not mean YOU specifically, but was more intended as a generic individual and was pretty sure that was clear. The choice of protagonist in that example had no real life implications, and was intended to illustrate a situation I've seen happen many times in real life, and yes, online. Just so there's no confusion, I did make that post before my account was mistakenly banned; I responded before going to bed and woke with the confusing notification. So, unless you're suggesting I'm able to see the future, or a false future as it were (it is suspicious that I'm so good at picking NOT winning lotto numbers), we need to stop this here. 

You don't agree with me, I don't agree with you. And that's okay. We don't all have to agree. I may read the rest of your post, but I'm getting a lot of negative vibes from just the opening, so I may not. If I do, I'm opting to not continue this discussion with you, and thus, will not be responding. You win, please consider yourself as getting the last word in, conversation over. Thank you for your input.

[BeardedSi]

@Vandalslut for someone that claims to not care about what @Cade has written you sure have a lot to say on the matter. To the point of repeating yourself, but wait.... didn't you complain about Cade repeating a topic.... hmm. Seems that what isn't acceptable for him is fine for you... hypocrisy at is finest. And claiming that Cade is a bully when pretty much all of the language you use in your post is blatantly aggressive. Maybe you need to take your own advice and not respond to Cades threads. Because it seems that you are only hear for the drama and not the discussion. So kindly pick up your soap box and go stand on a different spot. Thanks in advance.

[Ky****]

is anyone else confused by what's going on here? or is it just that Kymi's been overdoing the Bimbo hypno stuff?

[Wo****]

48 minutes ago, Kymi said:

is anyone else confused by what's going on here? or is it just that Kymi's been overdoing the Bimbo hypno stuff?

Personality clash I think. Misunderstanding and different ideas...

 

@BeardedSi Your comment isn't exactly gonna help, is it?

I consider VS one of my best friends here and I see Cade differently to her. I like the guy.

 

Both of them are more than capable of sorting out their squabble themselves.

 

VS and Cade are, or were, having a discussion. VS was putting her point across, as was Cade. Her opinions were within a post. You post specifically to have a go at her. How's that gonna help?

There are a few posters on here that I just block because I dislike everything they are and stand for. There's not much point letting my feelings be known to them. I know.

 

 

[FETMOD-TF]

Hi all,

Thanks for everyone’s contributions.

However, with the recent posted comments, it is time to remind everyone to be respectful of each other’s opinions and hear each other out without being accusatory.

You are all valued members of this community and we don’t want this forum to be a battle of the egos.

If the accusations continue, we will have no choice but to lock this thread from further comments.

[Wo****]

My apologies if I've overstepped the mark.

[Phoenyx]

@Cade, I do not understand why you feel that my attempts to help you, are seen as some kind of personal attack.  My offer of help is sincere.  I wouldn't say that any of this is really off-topic.  I, and others, have been trying to point-out, that what your are observing, may be the result of your own attitudes and approach.  This is totally fixable.  I certainly don't see you trying to "play the victim".  After all, Playing-the-Victim is a submissive role.

It appears to me, that you have lost touch with the very fundamentals of BDSM---Power Exchange and Power Dynamics.  You may still be able to function in a one-on-one situation.  However, you seem to forget that the same rules apply to a group setting.  Please, try not to let it bother you, if I again use my own situation as an example.

When I first came to the list, I just wanted to be like Norm, from "Cheers"---share a few insights, and tell a few stories.  I never tried to take control, or *** others to see things in my particular way.  I never even expected it.  I was simply being myself.  As a result, people came to me, and offered me their power---which, I accepted gracefully.  Still, such power was never mine to keep.  It was merely borrowed.  I needed to return it, with interest, in the form of advice, more interesting discussions, erotic stimulation, and any help that I could offer to those who needed it.  As so, the cycle continued.  It is not about how much power you "have".  It is about how much of that energy flows through you.  The more smiles that you bring to others, the more you will feel that surge of dominant energy.  Of course, I could always bore you with the physiological and psychological mechanics of how and why this works.  But, it is much easier to visualize on the conceptual and metaphysical level.

No, this is not meant to be about me.  Dammit, shut-off the envy circuits!  I am merely attempting to offer a roadmap, a blueprint, a guide, so that you may achieve the same thing.  I am trying offer my hand, to help you up.  Quit trying to bite it, or slap it away.  Do I need to use a whip?  You must be one of the most stubborn, obstinate, pig-headed folks that I have ever known (note, that I said "one of"). Such stubborn thick-headedness has likely closed you off from the flow of energy/power.  You are no longer feeling what you should be feeling, in The Scene.  It is turning your guts inside-out.  So, you blame the so-called "vanilla" world, rather than taking a deep look within yourself.  Worse, you allow your *** and frustration to become a disruptive influence, contaminating the energy flow for everyone around you.

Of course, if you really do prefer personal attacks, chastisement, verbal floggings, and public ***, I can send you my fee schedule for such services.  C'mon, that was a joke.  You're supposed to laugh (or, at-least crack half a smile).  Quit being a Grumpy Gus.  It is very unbecoming of a Dom.

[Phoenyx]

I suppose, that I should add an observation, to keep this thread somewhat "on-topic".  The prevailing question was, whether the so-called "vanilla" world was creeping into ours.  I would have to say, "No".  If anything, our world is creeping into theirs.  Take a look at virtually any modern Superhero movie, TV show, or comic.  I have seen more leather and latex in one episode of "Arrow", than I have at most play parties.  If the Vanilla World is guilty of anything, it's Cultural Appropriation.

The specter of "Political Correctness" has also been raised.  Really?!  BDSM folks seem to be among the most accepting of other orientations, gender-identities, kinks, quirks, and the like.  We live by a mutual pact: "You accept my kinks, and I'll accept yours."  We don't necessarily share each other's "tastes".  But, we have learned to live with them.  The "PC" folks have no reason to criticize us.  If anything, we may be next on their "Protected Species" list.

"Gentrification" though, is a completely different topic.  That involves the realm of ***---the ugliest of the ugly, in human interaction.  The ***ed elites have nothing against us, per se.  They merely see the dark, scary, warehouse districts---that have hosted our venues for many years---as targets for "redevelopment".  Such folks are simply (and callously) chasing a Buck.  And, we just happen to be in the way of their vaunted "Progress".

Anyway, I hope that this adds some much-sought-after perspective to this discussion.

[Cade]

12 hours ago, FETMOD-TF said:

Hi all,

Thanks for everyone’s contributions.

However, with the recent posted comments, it is time to remind everyone to be respectful of each other’s opinions and hear each other out without being accusatory.

You are all valued members of this community and we don’t want this forum to be a battle of the egos.

If the accusations continue, we will have no choice but to lock this thread from further comments.

Thank you.

As LazyPiratesBounty pointed out so aptly, I think this is more a misunderstanding and personality clash among particular individuals. It seems like two different conversations are occuring: one that is on topic, an exchange of ideas regarding a communal concern in which mutual learning is the goal; the other, is more hyper focused on trying to win an argument through personal attack, assumption and criticism, and even calling lifestyle roles into question which has nothing to do with this topic. Rather than closing the thread, which many others have commented on and shared information successfully, both complimentary and contrary, can you just address the problem individuals - myself included, of course. Maybe a simple private message just trying to explain the unacceptable behavior will be a good teaching device for better communication? I know I'd enjoy knowing a respectful way to express myself.

Thank you again.

[Cade]

12 hours ago, phoenyx said:

I suppose, that I should add an observation, to keep this thread somewhat "on-topic".  The prevailing question was, whether the so-called "vanilla" world was creeping into ours.  I would have to say, "No".  If anything, our world is creeping into theirs.  Take a look at virtually any modern Superhero movie, TV show, or comic.  I have seen more leather and latex in one episode of "Arrow", than I have at most play parties.  If the Vanilla World is guilty of anything, it's Cultural Appropriation.

Just because you're not aware of or perceive a problem doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Just because an issue doesn't affect you doesn't mean it's not important to those that are affected; you can choose to support them, or not.

12 hours ago, phoenyx said:

The specter of "Political Correctness" has also been raised.  Really?!  BDSM folks seem to be among the most accepting of other orientations, gender-identities, kinks, quirks, and the like.  We live by a mutual pact: "You accept my kinks, and I'll accept yours."  We don't necessarily share each other's "tastes".  But, we have learned to live with them.  The "PC" folks have no reason to criticize us.  If anything, we may be next on their "Protected Species" list.

There are literal examples of this being pointed out in the forum.

12 hours ago, phoenyx said:

"Gentrification" though, is a completely different topic.  That involves the realm of ***---the ugliest of the ugly, in human interaction.  The ***ed elites have nothing against us, per se.  They merely see the dark, scary, warehouse districts---that have hosted our venues for many years---as targets for "redevelopment".  Such folks are simply (and callously) chasing a Buck.  And, we just happen to be in the way of their vaunted "Progress".

I more intended the secondary definition of gentrification: the process of making a person or activity more refined or polite. That's just from Google.

 

12 hours ago, phoenyx said:

Anyway, I hope that this adds some much-sought-after perspective to this discussion.

Indeed, thanks.

[Phoenyx]

3 hours ago, Cade said:

Just because you're not aware of or perceive a problem doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Just because an issue doesn't affect you doesn't mean it's not important to those that are affected; you can choose to support them, or not.

You did ask for for opinions and observations.  You did not stipulate that all posted opinions need to rein*** yours.  Perhaps, in the future, you should make that clear.

3 hours ago, Cade said:

There are literal examples of this being pointed out in the forum.

You need to cite those examples, if you wish to prove your point.

3 hours ago, Cade said:

I more intended the secondary definition of gentrification: the process of making a person or activity more refined or polite

Perhaps, you are referring to "High Protocol" events?  High-protocol play is not for everyone---though it is the preferred scene of the upper echelons.

Or, is there something else?  Do I detect a hint of personal bigotry in there?  Your recent posts have strongly pointed to that possibility.

Frankly, whatever you have stuck in your craw, you need to cough it up and spit it out.  This continual beating-around-the-bush with theoretical topics is getting nowhere.  It is just leading in circles, and making everyone dizzy.  OK, so you might have to deal with some shame and ***.  But, keeping it bottled-up inside is not helping.  You're just spreading around a lot of bad energy, and making folks sick.  Find the strength to post your story, in detail, no matter how much it hurts.  Ask for help and understanding.  And, try not to snap at folks who offer it.  Trust me, you will be seen as a better person, for your effort.

Or, if you wish to handle this on the personal channels, you know where to find my profile.  But, remember to be respectful.

[Cade]

5 hours ago, phoenyx said:

You did ask for for opinions and observations.  You did not stipulate that all posted opinions need to rein*** yours.  Perhaps, in the future, you should make that clear.

Your opinion was welcomed, read, and rebutted. No one told you that you were wrong or tried to tell you it didn't belong here. In fact, I do believe I even thanked you for giving it.

5 hours ago, phoenyx said:

You need to cite those examples, if you wish to prove your point.

I'm not trying to have an extended discussion with you. If you can't see the examples in this thread alone, or go to the forum and see two or three threads that very obviously negate some consensual relationship types, then I know at this point it is futile for me to try to further explain it to you: for you, there is no issue that you can see or are willing to see. And that's okay! But just like with racism and sexism, you shouldn't go to a minority group or female and tell them it doesn't exist or isn't a problem because it doesn't affect you as a white male. The very act would be unbelievably ignorant and make you part of the problem.

6 hours ago, phoenyx said:

Perhaps, you are referring to "High Protocol" events?  High-protocol play is not for everyone---though it is the preferred scene of the upper echelons.

No. I'm talking about exactly as I've outlined. Not talking about edge play or high protocol events.

 

Your points have been heard, loud and clear. You don't see there is any problem, and you have a very strong opinion against me. That's cool! Thanks for your input.

[Phoenyx]

Glad I could help.

For future reference, when you present an argument, you need to quickly get to the point.  You might want to research the phrase, "Burying the Lede".

Also, I believe that, when citing examples in a debate or argument, it is the responsibility of the presenter, to research and submit any pertinent examples.  It is definitely not, "Look it up yourself!"  The next person that you say that to, may not be as polite as me.  In fact, their suggestion may prove to be anatomically impossible.

Oh, and if you're going to refer to someone's race, at least, get it right.  I'm Native American.  But then, you would have known that, if you had taken the time to read my profile.  I read yours.

And, lose the envy.  It doesn't suit you.

I'm sure glad that we are finally putting this to bed.  In the future, I'll have to charge you for these verbal floggings and public ***s.  A potential client can get only so many free samples.  Frankly, I never took you to be a masochist.  No, I don't have a strong opinion against you.  Not many could take a whipping, the way that you did.  And, you're right---those screams of agony and protest really do add something to the scene.

Hey, if we can't have fun with this, why are we here?!

Take care.

[re****]

Tl;Dr

What I have been taught: If something triggers you, please be respectful of the scene in action and remove yourself. Discuss how you felt with any involved, with the moderators, with a therapist. But do not judge those who choose differently from yourself. 

 

The definitely not abbreviated version:

My community comes for many members at the cost of one to four-hour drives in any given direction. We play in a home that's been opened to us. Our hosts must limit how many can be in attendance on any given night and have asked we don't play with fluids, ***, which precludes some of the more extreme play styles. That said, I recall on several occasions dominants passing through the crowd and they'd say "We will be playing with knives" or "you will hear screams of ***" and so on, allowing people to choose if they wanted to be in the same space at the same time with their scenes.

 

Even though some play cannot be done in the space publicly they (the lifestyle, the extreme, and the edge-play) are discussed openly among members. Scenes are planned, safety is discussed, images and stories are shared. They are supported, dynamics are respected. In this way, we openly acknowledge they exist and are not diminished simply because they can’t happen in this space.

 

This core belief stands true when the community hosts an event designed for education. One of the demos that stands out in my mind was an "intense interrogation and *** scene, including mindfucks, ***, and other potential triggers." I talked at length with the people doing the demo and others about this prior to it happening. Discussed things that could potentially trigger me. I then parked my ass outside with others simply because I wouldn't have wanted a negative reaction from me to interrupt a valuable lesson. 

 

All in all, that to me says my area at least tries their damndest to make sure individuals with different tastes and levels of comfort are accepted. Even if some play can't happen at a specific location (again out of respect for our hosts and/or venues) they are broadly discussed and members educated on those. It may not be enough but as others have said it is incredibly hard to satisfy everyone. In an area such as mine we may not have either the population or the resources to host separate nights. Even if we could I’m not entirely sure that’s the way to go for reasons you stated “you have your night, we have ours” but, I suppose there’s a similar thing happening here. There are multiple groups and private-property spaces with different styles, preferences, vetting processes, and the values they hold members too including their stance on fluids, play, and protocol.

 

Tangential Topic: Books and Media.

 

As mentioned briefly in this thread books and media may influence the curious to seek us out. Many novels picked up by publishers are tame (with a few notable exceptions such as The Claiming of Sleeping Beauty) but novels that are self-published present many different views, depths of play, etc. The vast majority, however, presents a seemingly one size fits all approach and many fumble consent and communication. In most of these, the dominants and submissives are mind readers.

 

That does present a problem when new folks walk in the door with the expectation that BDSM is one specific way. That requires we, those of us who have taken the time to learn, share, and educate to use those perspectives as an open-door through which we can relate that fantasy is not reality but your fantasy can become reality IF you work at it, learn, and find what fits you best. 

 

Edited June 12, 2020 by reasyn