I'm a cruel, scary sadist, and you should avoid even talking to me! (Or, the Conundrum of Vanilla Understanding En***d within the BDSM Realm.)

[Cade]

4 hours ago, reasyn said:

What I have been taught: If something triggers you, please be respectful of the scene in action and remove yourself. Discuss how you felt with any involved, with the moderators, with a therapist. But do not judge those who choose differently from yourself. 

This is awesome. I'd really like to see this the direction teaching continues at the community level; more constructive communication that helps awareness, resulting in tolerance and acceptance of lifestyles that we might not understand or even agree with, as long as it's not abusive. Of course, equally important is a concept best explained by the Dalai Lama: "When you talk, you are only repeating what you know; but when you listen, you learn something new." Often, the most important part of communicating can be listening to learn; unfortunately for many, once triggered, it can be tough to regain the objectivity to see the situation beyond their own problem, which can close anyone off from learning.

4 hours ago, reasyn said:

The definitely not abbreviated version:

I'm not trying to minimize everything added, you made several great points with wonderful examples...but, yes, it was definitely unabridged! Haha. I simply wanted to add a little of what we discussed in this regard, the size venue and occupancy definitely come into play. As mentioned, we can get upwards of 120 people at Fetish Circuit, with our busiest at 275. Some of the conventions we've done have had over 400 people, which is for the weekend, of course, and doesn't necessarily mean that many in the dungeon at one time. But it illustrates the point, how could I possibly warn everyone that might observe my scene prior? I'm more familiar with parties this size, with the standing rule of edge/extreme play needs discussed with the DM, who would be the go to person if there are questions or concerns about my play from the audience. I reflect on the demos and classes I've done, which are closer to 20-30 people. Although I didn't warn everyone there before the scene started, the classes were described that "enter at your own risk" might have been understandable, definitely supporting your point.

Comically, for the interrogation demos we did, I did have to talk to some of the individuals in the audience before start. In this situation though, we were pulling my slave from the audience by surprise, and it only seemed proper to warn those sitting by her and in our path to the hotseat. There was a direct reason for this, less to do with triggers, but to alert there would be a struggling body carried through. There were four of us holding her, so not a lot of a chance for a mishap, but definitely better to prepare for he possibilities. she did fight her captors beautifully, although for naught.

 

4 hours ago, reasyn said:

Tangential Topic: Books and Media.

 

As mentioned briefly in this thread books and media may influence the curious to seek us out. Many novels picked up by publishers are tame (with a few notable exceptions such as The Claiming of Sleeping Beauty) but novels that are self-published present many different views, depths of play, etc. The vast majority, however, presents a seemingly one size fits all approach and many fumble consent and communication. In most of these, the dominants and submissives are mind readers.

 

That does present a problem when new folks walk in the door with the expectation that BDSM is one specific way. That requires we, those of us who have taken the time to learn, share, and educate to use those perspectives as an open-door through which we can relate that fantasy is not reality but your fantasy can become reality IF you work at it, learn, and find what fits you best. 

THANK YOU for this. This is maybe some of the stuff I'm having trouble articulating, and you nailed it! Kudos.

Edited June 12, 2020 by Cade

[Wo****]

Just wanted to add that when Pirate and I go to the club we put on a impact play demo. He warns everyone what's gonna happen, and where. Alerts them to the fact I might scream, I may cry but it's all consensual, I enjoy it and we have built this up to where we are now.

He explains what to use, where, all the risks involved. What to look for. How he focuses on me, checks in, the aftercare, everything.

It's a fun way to educate people.

It helps people understand.

It also alerts people to possible triggers.

 

It all ties in with communication and consent.

[Cade]

@LazyPiratesBounty That's awesome! I'm sure that goes a long way to allowing you a certain level of freedom in your public play, that those people that happened to watch the beginning of your scene can have a sense of shared understanding with those in the scene. But it does raise some interesting questions. Most notable, how does this help those that might catch your scene in the middle through climax and missed the demo portion? And these are the ones that scare me to consider: Do the people participating in a scene need the consent of the audience to explore their consensual dynamic within that scene, in the appropriate venue for such interactions? Am I required to educate the audience about my relationship in order for my play to be acceptable, if approved by the DM staff/event management that would handle the concerns of consent and safety firsthand, already?

A couple other questions for consideration come to mind, but I admit, are based on the assumption this is at a not private play party (where many different relationships might come to explore their dynamic through various forms of play - including impact), and that what Pirate does is not a pre-scheduled demo or a common practice (the latter is just based on personal experience, this is a somewhat rare practice in the play spaces I've attended, not counting "learning dungeons" where regulars routinely use their scenes as teaching tools). In regards to consent, if this is not a pre-scheduled demo in which people get the choice to "come to learn", would it not be prudent to get consent from the audience prior to the demo - the consideration that we have the right not to learn if say, we just came to the play party to "play" and not suddenly have a lesson we weren't expected ***d upon us? Everyone goes to these events for different reasons and with didn't goals in mind; as hard as it may be to believe, some people do not enjoy learning! The second consideration that comes to mind is in regards to time constraints: how much time is the demo add to occupying a playspace versus scene turn over? If a basic scene runs 45 minutes and the demo takes nearly twice as long (with a quality lesson and Q&A plus scene), on a busier night did that unscheduled demo just deny someone the chance to play on that piece of furniture, in that playspace? Impact play is maybe the primary form of play at most the events I've experienced (tied closely with rope); do we not consent to see impact play by sheer virtue of choosing to attend the event? To me, it seems a lot like not realizing you were going to see baseball bats at a baseball game, then expecting the game to stop to educate everyone that doesn't know why they use baseball bats! Haha.

Please understand I mean no disrespect in my questions towards Pirate, your dynamic, nor yourself. I realize every situation is different and I offered these purely as food for thought! Thank you, rather! I'm "on" two to three event weekends a month, so when I get to go out to a dungeon or other playspace with the chance to only explore my relationship, I really try to make it only about me and mine, as it is our journey we want to experience then - we do so at any given venue as it offers obvious perks I do not have at home. There is just no way I could give a demo before each of my personal scenes, the headspace change is just too jarring often - from the logic and responsibility of teaching, into the more bestial and savage freeflow expression of s/m. One would lack; either a half-ass lesson or half-ass scene, and both seem equally disappointing, no doubt. Haha.

Great post! Thank you for an excellent example to work with, much respect to Pirate and yourself.

[Wo****]

We go to a swingers club, on a fetish night. It's mostly a social event with regular members. Small crowd, up to maybe 20 or so people.

It's explained to everyone what Pirate and I do, and where we will be doing it. We go off into a side room. Been doing it six months maybe, no one has had any negativity so far, in fact people love it.

It gives people the chance to ask questions and see our dynamic. They also get see me in subspace, and how I am after, and the care involved afterwards. Our sessions last about 45 mins, no idea really as I'm away somewhere else. When we play my only focus is Pirate.

We use a side room that has very thick (cold 😊) stone walls and they muffled the screams quite well, then there's always a gag 😋

 

I suppose our demos are our personal scenes. It's just we get watched. Several times a night.

 

[re****]

9 hours ago, Cade said:

I simply wanted to add a little of what we discussed in this regard, the size venue and occupancy definitely come into play.

For those who weren't in chat at the time, I want to say I agree on this point. My gatherings are limited by space, 20-30 members in attendance including the hosts and the leaders/mods/DMs. Therefore yes, it is easy for us to socialize and word to spread about what is happening and when. Most, are regulars and again that adds to the ease because we're aware of how individuals play. We're considerate of each others scenes. 

 

That isn't true in other venues I've been to including convention dungeons. In these cases I understand that by being approved/vetted to enter them I consent to see play that may be outside my tolerance. It helps when such places come with word of mouth or written warning. I could easily see how, on a larger scale it is not as intimate and knowing each individual is difficult if not impossible. They may come from a wide range of backgrounds and/or be new. 

 

Heck, if I dropped myself into your space I wouldn't have the first clue how things work there! Being that I have some experience/background I would naturally assume to take an observer role and ask questions until I have that sorted out but not everyone has the same combination of respect, boldness, and curiosity that allows me to do so. There always seems to be that shy shadow whose new and nervous and hasn't learned that they can ask yet.

Edited June 12, 2020 by reasyn

[Cade]

@LazyPiratesBounty That is awesome! Thank you to you both for being a representation of positive BDSM dynamics; considering the venue, Pirate and yourself may be the first actual examples of the lifestyle and this community for many of those individuals. It sounds like they are getting a great start!

Yes, I was picturing more of a busier play party with lots of play turnover. Comparing it to my experiences playing in the swing clubs here, I certainly would have had the time freedom to do more of the demo; the swing and BDSM community doesn't blend real well here - definitely oil and water. This club has few pieces of dungeon furniture on a small stage under a giant movie screen playing porn in a spank theater, haha! I don't think I had considered doing a demo here because the thought of teaching while someone I don't know is wacking it just in range to hear or see it would just be too distracting - no judgement on them, of course. I did enjoy using the windowed rooms, though!

The past few years I've done a consent class during September's National Consent Awareness Month, typically hitting small local munch groups where I get some great groups with lots of questions. I had wanted to do such a class at that same swinger club, but got no one! I'm sure it's just the difference of community expectations, perhaps.

You have to admit though...sometimes a gag just isn't enough! Haha!

@reasyn

12 hours ago, reasyn said:

Heck, if I dropped myself into your space I wouldn't have the first clue how things work there! Being that I have some experience/background I would naturally assume to take an observer role and ask questions until I have that sorted out but not everyone has the same combination of respect, boldness, and curiosity that allows me to do so. There always seems to be that shy shadow whose new and nervous and hasn't learned that they can ask yet.

Actually, I think you do fine! You seem like the type to have the common sense to consult the rules, which in the larger places here are prominent and tough to miss. At Fetish Circuit, they are posted in full at the door and around the play floor. It's awesome when I see someone stop and read over them, you can sometimes see the lightbulb blink on! Haha. I think you'd also like the dungeons here despite the additional occupancy. Both the ones I frequent take the new members on full tours and cover the rules extensively, and in all places, DMs are easy to find and try to be friendly. I've really been spoiled which I didn't realize until I travelled out of state to other communities and dungeons. I have to admit, I get away with a lot because I am "known" in my circles. I make it a personal rule to talk to the staff at any place I play, if only so they can talk with everyone that might play prior; this has been my most common advice to anyone going to a party the first time or just new. Often, the DM staff are comprised of people respected for their experience and knowledge.

Great conversation, thank you.

Edited June 13, 2020 by Cade