Verbal and physical ***

July 7, 2020

***

"Spit, slap and use that slut"

As always I will be using terms such as man and woman but this is inclusive of all whichever skin you wear. Opinion and experience of others from all areas of the community i value highly.

So the title "slap, spit and use that slut" is a clip on pornhub that instantly resonated, its filmed with the background track "she's got issues" which endear it to me even more. It fits perfectly and you should watch it. When i do watch porn its always with keywords such as brutal, *** and fucktoy. I remember certain clips I have seen over the years and often revisit them, purely for research purposes you understand 😊. A lot of this clip is ***, a subject I have found can cause some level of push back, not what I would call kink shaming as such but a sense of disapproval maybe, from other members. Upon receipt of what I perceive to be disapproval the manchild in me sadly reacted and as is my way I may have responded not in the way I really would wish to respond. So here we are.

Why does it turn me into a raging beast? Why does verbal *** of a partner I care deeply about light fires deep within? I can't really answer that, I just can't. I've mulled it over all day and have no verbal answer. It's just a sense, a feeling, fitting perfectly in that moment. It was said to me that this is roleplay, not for me it's not. For one to play at doing these things would not sit comfortably and I would in no way gain any pleasure. I tried this with my ex wife as we frantically tried to save our , yet within moments I could see her discomfort, my heart broke and that was that, of course I stopped and embraced her as soon as I saw this. She tried to be what I needed for me, not herself. That is just not for me and filled me full of shame to have even tried such things with a sweet lady whose path was not mine.

For this I want it given not just for me but because my partner gains from it, needs in the precise moment ONLY to be the slut she is and to admit the truth of self verbally. For me it's not just the words I use or the spit she receives, its her wanting to express verbally her sexuality at that moment in time without *** and with a man who she knows cares deeply. That coming from a partner when you know she means every word of what she says is so fucking hot, just typing this is getting the *** flowing. To hear another admit and embrace the moment willingly believing totally the words she says is again so hot. These are not things that would generally happen for some time although if directly asked for could happen early on in a relationship.

I know this is the sadistic edge I carry so am not confused in any way about these cravings but I would be interested to hear what others think. Your experiences and views whether you agree or not. However for the purposes of this let's not get into a discussion on limits etc, I'm fully aware of my responsibilities as far as care and affection, consent and trust are concerned.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Deleted Member
Formatting/and or spelling adjustment

July 7, 2020

This was very interesting to read, especially as I am usually on the receiving end of heavy degredation and I have been asked how I can enjoy it. I've had partners point to the fact I'm quick to stand up for women's rights or the fact I've been ***d before and ask why I could not only enjoy but request them to say such things to me, and like you I don't have an answer.
In a forum discussion on degredation one woman was adamant it came from misogyny within, that a man who wished to do such things got off on abusing women and that a woman who wanted it needed to overcome her own internalized misogyny, and that sge use to enjoy it but when overcame such things she stopped liking it. I think that saying everyone who enjoys it as a blanket statement is garbage and while I do recognize for some people it is like that I haven't come any closer to an answer on why it is for me. In a perfectly healthy loving relationship with great vanilla sex I was quite happy but gearing him degrade me for a few moments just made it all the better, and I felt terrible the first few times after because he felt so awful from saying it. But like you i really am at a loss for why I want it so badly, why rather than upsetting me it turns me to a quivering mess in the best of ways, and I try and read posts like this to see if anyone else answered the elusive question. This is quite long so I'll cut it off here before I ramble further but I very much enjoyed reading this!

July 7, 2020

I enjoy watching Japanese porn with a focus on spitting. Slapping is a no go for me. I find it degrading. I work in mental health and was also on the recieving end of being spat at or even been punched. Especially with people with autism that can be seen as a way of communicating. Anyway it is another topic. I would feel uncomfortable being slapped. It has triggered reactions in me although I did manage to remove myself. I guess in a BDSM this would an interesting topic. Probably a case of not waking up sleeping dogs.
I realize how close a BDSM setting can be to a counseling setting. Both is a leap of faith, both need trust and both setting need clear and firm bouandries. During my training we are always don't do things you are not trained for.
I guess slapping is a limit. And do you have to explore everything ? I guess the answer is no for me. Anyway interesting topic.

July 7, 2020

1 hour ago, Bluebella said:

In a forum discussion on degredation one woman was adamant it came from misogyny within, that a man who wished to do such things got off on abusing women and that a woman who wanted it needed to overcome her own internalized misogyny, and that sge use to enjoy it but when overcame such things she stopped liking it.

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For me I can't really agree with the misogyny as I adore women as strange as that may sound to some. However I really do understand her wiew and have no doubts there is truth to her statement. I have sadistic tendencies but only in certain situations and I know without doubt certain types of partners. IWhat is sadism though without consent? It is a form of misogyny, that's how I see it although others may see it differently. With consent that is no longer the case as with all things in this scene. It's a little difficult for me to accept an opinion from anyone who struggles with the key point of consent, a hypocrisy that I think many fail to see. Thank you for your reply, I feel.it takes a little courage to discuss certain things, even in this scene and will mull your words for a few days yet 😊

July 7, 2020

31 minutes ago, Kosmonaut76 said:

. And do you have to explore everything ? I guess the answer is no for me. Anyway interesting topic.

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I couldnt agree more, there is much i already know is not for me 😊

July 7, 2020

1 hour ago, Bluebella said:

This was very interesting to read, especially as I am usually on the receiving end of heavy degredation and I have been asked how I can enjoy it. I've had partners point to the fact I'm quick to stand up for women's rights or the fact I've been ***d before and ask why I could not only enjoy but request them to say such things to me, and like you I don't have an answer.
In a forum discussion on degredation one woman was adamant it came from misogyny within, that a man who wished to do such things got off on abusing women and that a woman who wanted it needed to overcome her own internalized misogyny, and that sge use to enjoy it but when overcame such things she stopped liking it. I think that saying everyone who enjoys it as a blanket statement is garbage and while I do recognize for some people it is like that I haven't come any closer to an answer on why it is for me. In a perfectly healthy loving relationship with great vanilla sex I was quite happy but gearing him degrade me for a few moments just made it all the better, and I felt terrible the first few times after because he felt so awful from saying it. But like you i really am at a loss for why I want it so badly, why rather than upsetting me it turns me to a quivering mess in the best of ways, and I try and read posts like this to see if anyone else answered the elusive question. This is quite long so I'll cut it off here before I ramble further but I very much enjoyed reading this!

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I wish people would stop assuming that all sadists are ***rs and all masochists are self harmers/damaged/have suffered trauma. Or even, like you say, it is needed to overcome certain things. Its one of the biggest and most common kink misconceptions.

July 7, 2020

Mhmm “research” 😂

This is a great topic and I’m eager to see what other people have to say. I personally don’t have the degrader/degradee bone but I do think it’s fascinating to watch people who do. From an observer standpoint, it almost looks like the submissive is just relaxing into the depths of who they are at a very basic level sexually. And the Dominant seems to get the intense pleasure and satisfaction of bringing them to that point, having the sub realize how much they crave it. As you said, that primal piece. I’ve also heard it said that the more intense sessions create the more intense Dom/me and sub spaces. Which is interesting, but makes sense. The ultimate submission of letting go of the pretense of polite society and how freeing that can be could lead to a very blissful state, I imagine.

As I said, this is just from what I’ve observed so if I’m completely out in left field... let me know. I’d love to learn about the experience even if I don’t practice it myself.

July 7, 2020

1 hour ago, Donnykinkster said:

For me I can't really agree with the misogyny as I adore women as strange as that may sound to some. However I really do understand her wiew and have no doubts there is truth to her statement. I have sadistic tendencies but only in certain situations and I know without doubt certain types of partners. IWhat is sadism though without consent? It is a form of misogyny, that's how I see it although others may see it differently. With consent that is no longer the case as with all things in this scene. It's a little difficult for me to accept an opinion from anyone who struggles with the key point of consent, a hypocrisy that I think many fail to see. Thank you for your reply, I feel.it takes a little courage to discuss certain things, even in this scene and will mull your words for a few days yet 😊

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I agree wholeheartedly for many like us it isn't rooted in misogyny but it does make many female subs more cautious to explore with others. And youre very welcome, i am interested in finding where kinks appeal to people and as I struggle to identify that for myself in something like this im always interested in hearing others explore its appeal to them

July 7, 2020

I wish people would stop assuming that all sadists are ***rs and all masochists are self harmers/damaged/have suffered trauma.
Or even, like you say, it is needed to overcome certain things. Its one of the biggest and most common kink misconceptions.

July 7, 2020

That makes perfect sense. I believe a submissive is as strong, reflective and self aware as a dominant. Both have to be in order to be safe.
I work with adults with mental health issues ranging some self harm. And they are always the expert of their lives. What I can offer is a space to listen or to network. I am not always the expert. Back to BDSM it needs trust and understanding. And surely the submissive is guiding the dominat and vice versa.

July 8, 2020

I don’t think you have to be a masochist to enjoy these things. *** is different from ***. But I will stand up for sadists, one of the nicest men I know is a full-on sadist.
I think Jinxy has it spot on. Allowing someone to verbally degrade me and slap men(not into spitting) is letting go for me - it helps me get to that space. Becoming only a sexual creature, subservient. Verbal *** can differ though - I’ve learnt that some women like their bodies to be verbally degraded as in “fat pig” or called something like a “piece of shit”. The latter has triggered me and I find it abusive. It’s a fine line isn’t it?

July 8, 2020

Talking for myself, I have had enough verbal ***. I couldn't take any more . Ditto.

July 8, 2020

People like what people like, if it's something you like that's fine, if not that's also fine.

You could ask me if I enjoy verbally degrading someone in bed. No, but I do enjoy hitting them with a wooden bat (with consent) but I'd never say ewww degrade them, why would you do that to someone, when the flip side could also easily be said about me. Ewww you beat them? Why would you do....

We're in a kinky world and everyone has different interests and reasons for them, similarly people have different limits and reasons for them. Rather than focus on differences being a negative thing, differences are what make us unique.

If everyone in the world wanted to be spat on, slapped, and treated like a slut then it would be seen as vanilla, and none of us are that!

July 8, 2020

And to answer the question about what is sadism without consent?

The answer is simple. Then it becomes a psychiatric profiling trait and a criminal offence

July 8, 2020

16 hours ago, Bluebella said:

I agree wholeheartedly for many like us it isn't rooted in misogyny but it does make many female subs more cautious to explore with others.

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I enjoy bits of it but am still a mildly triggered by some things. Not sure if it's just me or the level of security with my partner.

July 8, 2020

17 hours ago, Bluebella said:

im always interested in hearing others explore its appeal to them

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I've learned more from the opinions of others than any other area, whether I agree or not i try to understand and use it to my advantage.

July 8, 2020

1 hour ago, oneminusone said:

People like what people like, if it's something you like that's fine, if not that's also fine.

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Yep get all that but it frustrates me slightly when others may judge ones view or cravings and I don't just mean me personally. When it comes from a community where we are supposed to be non judgmental and accepting of all it surprises me is all. One key point I have grasped is there is no right or wrong, there may be a framework you live within but what you do within that framework is fine and does not have to match another's view of how that framework should be.

July 8, 2020

An intriguing question set raised.

In " sympathy for the devil", i find myself asking is it degrading a kink partner? To find the balance and trust ,a very tricky high wire act? Personal observations of self do not equate it with denigration. Rather the opposite! A form of "worship" ? To acknowledge and praise the uniqueness of those moments of ,hopefully,shared passion?

Passion and the sense of that unconditional and truly non-judgemental acknowledgement of desires.....sounds perfect! However few experiences in life's journey rarely attain 'perfection'. We express in kink,as we seek freedom from other's chaining of our unique natures & nurtures...,by societal conditioning.

Too many may confuse the praise of an inner Slut's glory of feeling slutty,with an excuse or justification to hide the degrader's own insecurities ,inadequacy feelings,guilt and /or biased distortions....the selfish monster of ego,mysogony,discrimination etc...

Having truly enjoyed this self expression from both sides in a rather fluidic switching relationship....i hope i understand. But i also have merely just survived ,in a daily grind of vanilla working ,the denigration & blame by an unfiltered alcoholic......very unkinky and unsexual.... Tantamount to "gaslighting"... So the point ,once again is one of communication,truth,empathy & Respect. Trigger's to mental health issues and negative feelings must be considered and trust to expose those fragile fragments of our psyches' is a growth of self aware kinksters.....Respect !innit all ya kinky funsters!

Life,Love, 'n' Unity!🙏

July 8, 2020

20 minutes ago, Boldbald said:

An intriguing question set raised.

In " sympathy for the devil", i find myself asking is it degrading a kink partner?

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As with all you write @BoldbaldI have to read, think, read again and think some more. This one is no different, a clear message in a unique style with elements of the brain teaser. All I understand apart from this part?

Do enjoy how you phrase your posts 😊

July 8, 2020

It is i that must thank you! for your many fine posts....they inspire me to think beyond ,& feel changed perspectives.....as with many questions of ourselves we grow into new levels of understanding🙏

Life,love n Unity!

July 11, 2020

Tough question. For me I relish things being said to me that I would not accept outside of play or from someone else because I know they are said not to make me feel badly about myself but to feel loved and treasured. That being said I’ve never heard things like you’re fat or ugly or any such muttering. It’s only in play that the *** takes place and it’s always during subspace be it a mild level or a deeper level. Having not grown up being degraded by someone I loved and trusted is something I need and crave during play. It’s done not out of a place of meanness or spite but out of love and appreciation of the level of control being exercised during play and my need for total domination during that time. I know that what’s said during play is not something I would ever hear or tolerate during our time outside of play and he knows this too through hours if communication. I think it depends on the individuals involved and the depth of that dynamic. One persons *** is another persons dedication. For me something done out of love cannot be ***.

July 11, 2020

8 minutes ago, Leisa said:

That being said I’ve never heard things like you’re fat or ugly

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I was talking to a new friend a couple of days ago and she sent me an article from fetlife that really helped me understand much better. In the course of our chat we discussed certain words and how they can trigger differing emotions. Im a great fan of certain words but not these words, not words that for me are a personal attack on that ladies self esteem and confidence. Words such as could for me crush that young ladies confidence and that is not my role. If anything it's too build confidence and up until I read the article I didn't even realise that this was another form of ***. For me words like that are not *** but pure cruelty and I want to get closer to those I like, not crush them and wound them in ways that could really affect the person they are. I realised I have so much to learn still at that point

Edited July 11, 2020 by Deleted Member

July 11, 2020

32 minutes ago, Donnykinkster said:

I was talking to a new friend a couple of days ago and she sent me an article from fetlife that really helped me understand much better. In the course of our chat we discussed certain words and how they can trigger differing emotions. Im a great fan of certain words but not these words, not words that for me are a personal attack on that ladies self esteem and confidence. Words such as could for me crush that young ladies confidence and that is not my role. If anything it's too build confidence and up until I read the article I didn't even realise that this was another form of ***. For me words like that are not *** but pure cruelty and I want to get closer to those I like, not crush them and wound them in ways that could really affect the person they are. I realised I have so much to learn still at that point

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Once again my friend you are wise beyond your years in our world of BDSM. Your sub will find nothing but a good and loving dominant in you. Being a good dominant is secondary to being a good man since you cannot have one without having the underlying good. I am so excited to watch your journey and the eventual meeting of the lady of your choosing. My father gave me some advice when I entered adulthood as a woman that I’m going to pass on. The greatest woman is one who knows how to be a lady in public and a whore in the bedroom. As someone who took this advice to heart I know both are possible. You’ll never find me as anything but a lady in public but behind the playroom doors is another matter.

July 11, 2020

Just now, Leisa said:

Once again my friend you are wise beyond your years in our world of BDSM. Your sub will find nothing but a good and loving dominant in you. Being a good dominant is secondary to being a good man since you cannot have one without having the underlying good. I am so excited to watch your journey and the eventual meeting of the lady of your choosing. My father gave me some advice when I entered adulthood as a woman that I’m going to pass on. The greatest woman is one who knows how to be a lady in public and a whore in the bedroom. As someone who took this advice to heart I know both are possible. You’ll never find me as anything but a lady in public but behind the playroom doors is another matter.

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I want them to get wet, hotter through the use of the words, primal. I want them to enjoy the use of the words, together, in that moment not crush them. Cruelty is not my thing and in the right situation *** is far from cruelty, it's a shared experience that both can enjoy and that's what I seek. Cruelty, real cruelty , spite has no place here as we both know 😊

Thank you @Leisa.

July 11, 2020

7 hours ago, Donnykinkster said:

I was talking to a new friend a couple of days ago and she sent me an article from fetlife that really helped me understand much better. In the course of our chat we discussed certain words and how they can trigger differing emotions. Im a great fan of certain words but not these words, not words that for me are a personal attack on that ladies self esteem and confidence. Words such as could for me crush that young ladies confidence and that is not my role. If anything it's too build confidence and up until I read the article I didn't even realise that this was another form of ***. For me words like that are not *** but pure cruelty and I want to get closer to those I like, not crush them and wound them in ways that could really affect the person they are. I realised I have so much to learn still at that point

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I am going to jump on your quote here to post this thought if I may Donny, it may be a little out of date and old school in it's usage of BDSM definitions as our lexicography usage seems to morph quite quickly in the lifestyle.

This is all stated purely in my opinion and not as fact, other peoples experience is just as valid.

One of the first things i learnt about *** / *** was the definition,

Embarrass - cause (someone) to feel awkward, self-conscious, or ashamed.

Humiliate - make (someone) feel ashamed and foolish by injuring their dignity and pride.

Degrade - to cause (someone) to feel that they have no value and do not have the respect.

So if we look at the definitions and mine and Leisa's play, in reality what I call her does not make her feel ashamed or foolish in a scene, nor does it treat her with disrespect, let alone contempt. So despite the fact I say things to her that would be totally abhorrent if anyone else were to say them they barely register as embarrassment, as although she says they make her feel loved I think they also make her self conscious at the time.

All of this kind of play is perception based and as a Dominant I can say the smallest thing to a submissive and hit an unknown situational trigger which takes something from very slightly embarrassing to a feeling a *** to the person triggered. (That is not in a good way just for clarification, as then it is end play and cuddle as a priority.)

I try hard to keep my play with in the Embarass/*** zone in the scene as I specifically do not want to treat my submissive with disrespect. I respect the fact she is a whore in the bedroom.

I think for myself *** is the limit purely because it gives me a better mental image of where that step to far is in the heat of play. If I made *** the limit I would need to find a word to describe what is beyond that, so I could avoid it.

Any ideas what lays beyond *** in that list?