Airs and Graces: Are we forgetting our manners? Or have times changed?

[Deleted Member]

43 minutes ago, Rumpleseed said:

 

 

Yes, I'm part of the Old Guard, however, young or old, one does get wearisome with the seemingly never ending stream of vanilla's, unskilled and uneducated trying to use the lifestyle as a means to obtaining free or kinky sex or assert control recklessly over the lonely and ***. I take personal offence at their lack of interest in even TRYING to gain a basic understanding of the world they try and inject themselves into. As you say, we're all people, Dom/mes, subs and slaves alike and people can be damaged, physically and emotionally, very easily. Physical will heal, mental and emotional scars sometimes lasts lifetimes.

 

Good morning

 

I thank you for your measured response and I completely agree with all you say but especially this. Within weeks of finally moving into this community this was an issue I as a new fella identified and have since railed against st every opportunity I can. The reason for that is really in no way have i tried to change anything about my base nature just because I'm seeking a different life. There we have for me the main problem, many do change as they have this perceived and wrong view that to be this and that they have to act differently and the problem that straight away is that word "act" this is where as you quite rightly point out the real danger can occur. I myself have actively sought knowledge ESPECIALLY from the old guard. How else am I to become more and evolve as a decent human being if I close my mind to those with real experience. Only a complete fool moves Into a new area and refuses to aknowledge his own ignorance with a clear willingness to open his eyes and ears to those who really know. I can assure you I have pushed , prodded and maybe even at times frustrated those around me but I do it for a reason. I seek knowledge and have learned nore interacting with men like yourself than many years or reading books could ever teach me.I have no issues with being told I'm wrong or I'm on the wrong path because I actually do feel I have the same values and beliefs as the OG but cannot be OG myself as i only really entered this world 18 months ago. You core values are mine, your respect again is mine and let's be honest it's not that difficult to grasp is it? It's just about being a decent human being which sadly many of the newer but I must say younger in general casual players just don't seem to grasp.

Please more comments like yours are needed especially for those like me who really do see this community as much more than a quick shag 😊. I may be new to this but not to life and that in itself  i think puts me on the right path

 

Kind regards

D

Edited July 14, 2020 by Deleted Member
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[CaveBear]

23 hours ago, Liam52 said:

Great topic Pixie!! I try to be respectful to all and I do follow a few protocols but basically they are just good manners. Examples being when a lot of us meet up I will greet the Dom/Dommes first, then their subs. If I want to send a sub a friend request I will always ask the Dom’s permission first, like I said it’s basic manners really. 
I would never expect any sub other than Lilm to address me as Sir, I’m not their Sir and will politely tell them that and to just call me Liam. 
I would never stop my sub from chatting to anyone be that Dom’s , subs , anyone basically. To deny her speaking to other Dom’s would deny her speaking to many of her friends. Also, and this is just me and not disrespecting any other dynamics , to me I would feel that to deny her the freedom to chat to anybody would show a lack in confidence in myself and our dynamic. 
im also fine with other Dom’s messaging her as long as THEY are respectful. If they come on to her demanding her respect and insisting she refers to them by their chosen title they can expect a pm from me and I’ll not be so polite then.

my sub belongs to me but is also her own person. She is absolutely free to make any friendships she wants to and will come to me if somebody oversteps the Mark. This very rarely happens and it’s usually the wannabes with no real bdsm understanding that will take that approach. 
it doesn’t all have to be politeness and protocols. Imagine how boring the lobby would be after a couple of hours of that !! Some people get so caught up in all that that they can sometimes lose sight that yes, always be respectful in this lifestyle but also remember to have fun.  

This is the same view as i take in the matter .. It all just comes down to being polite and having respect for your Sub/Slave Etc .. And them knowing that they have the freedom to be able to chat to others and knowing that if you are needed because someone crosses the line you are there and will take care of the matter and end the problem ..   And i would add that this is a fantastic post created by @PixieDust And yes i would say on a day to day basis in kink world and in Vanilla Quite a very high percentage of respect and politness and just common decency has disappeared .. 

[Deleted Member]

Just now, CaveBear said:

 And yes i would say on a day to day basis in kink world and in Vanilla Quite a very high percentage of respect and politness and just common decency has disappeared .. 

Yep totally, society is changing in the way we are with each other, all about self for many now. Used to do my head in when my Dad constantly used to bang on about "the good old days" but I understand it now and yes i am becoming my Dad 

[Leisa]

4 hours ago, Rumpleseed said:

Hello my friend,

I did enjoy your narrative, thank you. You were correct, there was no offence intended, had there been, you would be well aware :-) 

Yes, I'm part of the Old Guard, however, young or old, one does get wearisome with the seemingly never ending stream of vanilla's, unskilled and uneducated trying to use the lifestyle as a means to obtaining free or kinky sex or assert control recklessly over the lonely and ***. I take personal offence at their lack of interest in even TRYING to gain a basic understanding of the world they try and inject themselves into. As you say, we're all people, Dom/mes, subs and slaves alike and people can be damaged, physically and emotionally, very easily. Physical will heal, mental and emotional scars sometimes lasts lifetimes.

For me, this is not about sex, masculinity or testosterone, if you knew me you would know this. This is about two people entering into a totally open, trusting, fulfilling, uninhabited relationship where trust, respect and love is paramount. Dom/mes meeting the wants and needs of their subs/slaves and visa versa. It's a dance of sorts, with one leading and one following. A potentially deadly dance with someone unskilled leading.

During "my time", subs and slaves were beautiful, elegant creatures that came in all shapes and forms with stunning manners and etiquette who took great joy in representing the best of their Dom/me. To see them sitting at their feet,  standing beside them or huddled in groups laughing and giggling was always a joy to behold. 

As for a Dom/me back then showing respect to his/her piers by first seeking the initial permission to engage with anothers sub/slave, it encourage a very calm and balanced social balance where respect for all, by all was the norm, not an expectation. We never experienced the aggressive, belligerent, rudeness as I see in todays BDSM online sites. It just didn't happen. It was a golden time.

Domination and control is an art form, mastered by some, eluded by others. Some are born into it, others learn. It's MUCH MORE that the tools and toys, it's presence, aura, command and comfort, often evident to your sub/slave without a word even being uttered and so much more. Vanilla society is awash with scarred, ruined and misguided subs/slaves today. If you met one I have trained, you would be in awe, without doubt.

It's all about coal and diamonds.

I noticed that the only person’s response you replied to was that of @Donnykinkster. Guessing since you view subs/slaves as “beautiful, elegant creatures” responding to a lady who just happens to be a submissive was out of the question. I take great joy in representing my Dom @Thebian who knows and respects that I am a beautiful, intelligent, respectful (when one deserves respect) submissive with “stunning manners and etiquette”. What he would never dream about doing is having me sit at his feet or giggle with a bunch of other submissives like I was a ninny who didn’t have a thought in my head. Why? Because he knows that I’m beautiful and intelligent with thoughts and feeling of my own. You (I was going to say sir but you with your high-handed, arrogant, disgusting view on submissives deserve no such title) have forgotten that sub/slaves are women and men with thoughts, opinions, and feelings of their own and reducing them to “creatures” shows exactly what kind of male species you are and try to represent. I would love to speak to and get to know anyone who you trained. I too began this journey in the 90s and know how the old guard behaved and represented themselves. Not once was it even requested that I sit at my first Dominant’s feet nor bow down to any Dom except him and that was only during high protocol events. I’m willing to bet you paraded your sub/slaves around a high protocol even on a collar and leash because God forbid she have a thought or feeling of her own much less the desire to be respected. You are not a testament to the “old guard” my Dom was and is a testament to such. What he has that you’re lacking is basic human decency and respect for another Dom/me or a sub/slave. Maybe, since this newer generation of individual people who make up the Dom/me and sub/slave contingent are such a disappointment to you you May consider retiring from being an active Dom for the pure risk of causing further emotional and mental scars.

The only thing you seem to have gotten right is that this is a relationship that is totally open, trusting, fulfilling, uninhibited relationship where trust, respect, and love is paramount. Albeit for me to tell you that your writings clearly show that you lack any of these qualities for anyone who has chosen to give themselves to be a sub/slave. It also seems that you speak solely of female sub/slaves forgetting that there are Dommes and male subs/slaves also in the community to which I hold dear. If you continue your archaic viewpoints you may well find yourself surfing through a pool of those you deem less worthy of consideration and respect. Maybe it’s time to hang up your crop or hand it to someone who knows the value of another human being regardless of the title they proudly carry. As merely a submissive I don’t look for nor do I expect a response to someone you deem unworthy. Have a great day.

[CaveBear]

I have to say something here .. I have been around for a bit and it seems to me that a lot of Doms And even some Subs i guess do get confused with difference between a Submissive and Slave .. Yes quite a few Not all But quite a few like the idea of being treated like a doormat and having the whole aspect of their lives controlled .. But Submissives are different most of the play and time around a Submissive is in the bedroom .. Well unless the kink takes hold anywhere else .. lol .. But once out of the Bedroom Usually Normal life resumes And again unless there is some form of agreement for otherwise .. So with a Submissive they have to put up with quite a lot of crap from Dom's who think that they are there to *** and just order around .. No that is a slave you want and not a submissive .. Obviously others may think different but that is my view on it ....

[Leisa]

15 minutes ago, CaveBear said:

I have to say something here .. I have been around for a bit and it seems to me that a lot of Doms And even some Subs i guess do get confused with difference between a Submissive and Slave .. Yes quite a few Not all But quite a few like the idea of being treated like a doormat and having the whole aspect of their lives controlled .. But Submissives are different most of the play and time around a Submissive is in the bedroom .. Well unless the kink takes hold anywhere else .. lol .. But once out of the Bedroom Usually Normal life resumes And again unless there is some form of agreement for otherwise .. So with a Submissive they have to put up with quite a lot of crap from Dom's who think that they are there to *** and just order around .. No that is a slave you want and not a submissive .. Obviously others may think different but that is my view on it ....

I appreciate your thoughts but I believe you have it backwards and wrong. The slave is actually the one who carries the added strength and most definitely are not doormats. I indemnify as a sub however I enjoy the service and dedication that are slave tendencies and am certainly not a doormat for anyone to walk all over. Neither are the slaves I’ve met. They’re loved and cherished in a way many subs wish they were and this is because of the years of training one must go through to become a slave through the various stages before becoming a slave. Even live in slaves most often have careers and such outside the home much like any other submissive who works. I think it’s a misnomer to label slaves as not being submissives. Slaves not only carry the title of submissive but also the title of slave. The slave actually has more responsibility to her Dom/Master than a standard submissive and has thoughts and feelings to be respected. It’s a gift the slave gives to another to have that trust and strength to completely give herself over to another. While not a slave per se myself I know and admire many of those I know are.

[CaveBear]

5 minutes ago, Leisa said:

I appreciate your thoughts but I believe you have it backwards and wrong. The slave is actually the one who carries the added strength and most definitely are not doormats. I indemnify as a sub however I enjoy the service and dedication that are slave tendencies and am certainly not a doormat for anyone to walk all over. Neither are the slaves I’ve met. They’re loved and cherished in a way many subs wish they were and this is because of the years of training one must go through to become a slave through the various stages before becoming a slave. Even live in slaves most often have careers and such outside the home much like any other submissive who works. I think it’s a misnomer to label slaves as not being submissives. Slaves not only carry the title of submissive but also the title of slave. The slave actually has more responsibility to her Dom/Master than a standard submissive and has thoughts and feelings to be respected. It’s a gift the slave gives to another to have that trust and strength to completely give herself over to another. While not a slave per se myself I know and admire many of those I know are.

Well as i said it's my opinion and taken from many i have known over the years .. 

[CaveBear]

But i will just add and proving my point that it is the Slave that gives up total control and not the Submissive .. And therefore the Slave will be treated more as a toy and property more than the Submissive who does it because she wants to and not because she is made or ordered too .. The Submissive does not have to put up with the *** where as the Slave usually does and is more of a doormat than the Submissive ..  And that is why i think a lot of manners and respect goes out the window nowadays specially where a Sub is concerned ...

You can find a good definition under katekinsey's blog, just google her name and you will find the article called " What is the difference between a Submissive and a Slave?"  

[Th****]

6 hours ago, Rumpleseed said:

Yes, I'm part of the Old Guard, however, young or old, one does get wearisome with the seemingly never ending stream of vanilla's, unskilled and uneducated trying to use the lifestyle as a means to obtaining free or kinky sex or assert control recklessly over the lonely and ***. I take personal offence at their lack of interest in even TRYING to gain a basic understanding of the world they try and inject themselves into. As you say, we're all people, Dom/mes, subs and slaves alike and people can be damaged, physically and emotionally, very easily. Physical will heal, mental and emotional scars sometimes lasts lifetimes.

I to am from the same era as your self and have witnessed the changes that you speak of. 

Let me just make a couple of points on your first post. As a Dominant I do personally do not want anyone but by girl addressing me by as Sir or Master. This is not due to only doing this part time. As for myself I am always a Dominant I just have to hide it when at work etc. 

The reason is exactly one of the points you raised in your first post. I am only The Dominant of my girl and thus to anyone else whether owned or unowned I do not expect them to show that level of respect. On the contrary I have not earned that respect and it would be just an empty word. Like you I value that word and do not want it cheapened by being used as if it were my name.

@Leisa my girl, lives by those same rules, she can speak to other Dominants as her equals until they earn her respect. As you know online you never know who is behind the keyboard so best practise would be to reserve your full respects until you do.

When I started out in this lifestyle, also in the '90's the main focus was on trying to get a wider acceptance by the mainstream. So we would no longer be total social outcasts. That was the main reason for the marketing of the SSC slogan. It played well and created a better public face for BDSM.

In return we of course accept new people into our ranks and it is our role to educate, inform, and share the knowledge that we have accumulated over the decades with those who come now. If those who come now are lacking in knowledge maybe it is our generation that are poorer teachers than those that taught us.

As for your second post, yes of course this lifestyle attracts predators, wannabes and those that are just interested. The latter two can be educated and can become valuable members of the scene. Cast your mind back a few decades to the very first online BDSM chat rooms. They were on Dalnet using MIRC and even then we had our predators, in fact one of the problems was that no one was expecting it. Now at least fore warned is fore armed.

Even before then let us try to remember there will always be terrible Dominants out there whose results, behaviour and scars leave most members of the community horrified. I am not talking about play here, it is just that unfortunately being an ass hole and being a Dominant are not mutually exclusive.

I think the core values I hold to myself to stop myself be eaten alive by my own arrogance are that humility, empathy, humour and honesty make for an excellent Dominant and pretty decent human being. 

Stay safe and be happy.

[Cade]

If you think BDSM slaves are doormats, I would venture the opinion that you've learned very little in your tenure in this community, with all due respect.

 

The simplified difference between submissive and slave for me: submissive is a mentality that promotes happiness through serving another to a varying degree; slaves are submissives that have dedicated themselves to learning how to serve their owner to the best and total of their ability. At what point does "doormat" even factor into this? I find most that erroneously think this have never owned a slave and only assumed from outside observations between owner and slave "play scenes" - a very limited portion of the dynamic. Likewise, it's easier to dismiss someone as a "doormat" (or other pejorative) when you know you have zero chance to capture that individual (like in the vanilla dating scene where a man might considers a woman he wanted to date a bitch or slut because she doesn't want to date him).

 

My slave has chosen that role not because she is weak, but rather because when dating other dominants, she found them to be too weak for her desires (yes, she scared many a macho men away with her desired lifestyle). she is one of the strongest individuals I know because she is secure and confident in her identity. This is what she wants and she has had to fight, learn and grow, and be trained to EARN the honor of being branded as slave to someone worthy. Are you worthy of owning a slave? Not likely if you see them only as "doormats".

[TeeJay_98]

A short statement based totally on my own OPINION... 

 

I believe some people in this lifestyle, regardless of how they identify, take things far too seriously... I sometimes think people are trying too hard to be someone they simply aren't.. Or they try too hard to climb the hierarchy when in reality, it's not needed. 

 

I think alot of the time, people are ***ting an image of themself which isn't necessarily accurate... Why do they do this? I can't imagine why, is it to match up to expectations that are put in place by the people they talk to? Or is it because they don't actually understand much about the lifestyle they are entering and they think that's what they have to do to be a part of this? 

 

We need to remember that no two people are the same... I can't even imagine calling someone who wasn't my D by Sir/Miss, I feel it would take away the value of the title when used to my actual D. But I can understand that some people do... I understand that some people need that in their dynamic / some people have been taught to do that.. Which is fine, of course. 

 

Times have changed and different ways of life are being put in front of us... Just because something isn't for us it doesn't mean its wrong, it's just not your kind of 'right' 

 

In regards to speaking to others... Again I understand why some people like to set that boundary, I guess sometimes it's to keep each other safe and I imagine sometimes it's because that's what both parties want... Consensual..  Then there's the mindset of the few fake D/s types we have in the community... Who are that insecure that they don't want the other talking to anyone - Without asking them first. 

 

I would never expect my D to not talk to other D types or s types. 

I personally interact with many D and s types on a daily basis and in my opinion there's nothing at all wrong with wanting like minded friends. But I accept that some others might not think my way. 

 

I believe the best way to learn is from experience... And everything is always easier when you've got friends around you who understand. 

 

I believe everyone should just do what makes them happy, and be able to do it without feeling like they are being judged for it or on a constant competition with others. 

 

I don't believe that manners have been forgotten, I do believe that manners are being used differently... As long as you are respectful and polite then the need for 'Sir/Miss' being used to address every D type is little to none. If you want to do that, then by all means but whilst times are changing, I've come to know of fewer D types who will accept the title being given by anyone but their sub/slave.. Etc.  

[CaveBear]

All Submissives and slaves are different .. The whole Sub/Slave genre has been mixed about together changed joined you name it .. So when people relate to this it is different for each individual .. The Wording for doormat was just to express that a slave is willing to give up everything and be treated as such if her owner wishes to do so .. Where as with a submissive this is not the case .. well unless agreed .. 

The way your Slave is with you is both of your choices and when someone claims their role they do not have to stick to it rigid anyway .. It can be changed to suit each person .. 

But the point i was making is people confusing slaves and subs .. Where a slave can be ***d and spoken too and ***d .. It is not really the case with a submissive .. But respect morals and Manners go out the window with a lot of submissives because they are spoken too as if they are slaves .. 

Edited July 14, 2020 by CaveBear
mistake

[Phoenyx]

With all of this recent discussion of "The Old Guard",  I feel compelled to respond---and perhaps allay a few misconceptions.  First, the topic at-hand, "Airs and Graces".  In this new realm of the 21st Century, the prevailing mindset seems to be "on-or-off", "all-or-nothing".  This is not only true in "The Scene", but, in the "vanilla" world as well---especially in the vanilla world.  Certainly, social media and all-electronic communication have played a role in this.  My point is, that the middle ground appears to have been forgotten.

One does not necessarily need to use "Sir" or "Ma'am" to retain a respectful tone.  Think about this situation:  You're in the parking lot at the market, when you see a lady unknowingly drop a package, while loading her purchases into her car.  You notice that she will likely leave, without retrieving her lost item.  So, you approach, to let her know.  Your tone is neutral, yet respectful.  You maintain that tone, until you see whether formality or informality is indicated.  Such a technique is truly an art---one that I ***, may have been lost, in this new technological world.

One thing, however, has not changed.  Back in the 90's, The Scene was filled with just as many attitudes and insecurities, as it is today.  It is an aspect of human nature that will likely never change.  The decade of the 1990's was truly the "Wild West" of the BDSM scene.  That decade saw BDSM explode into mainstream culture, through underground-nightclub shows and grand fetish events.  Consequently, a few Doms from my time, tend to see themselves as god-like pioneers.  "Without us,..."  They seem to forget, that being a Dom means being in control of one's self, as much as being in control of others.

It cannot be stated enough, that "submission" is a gift!  In this modern society, we have all been ingrained with the concepts of egalitarianism.  So, submission comes from a deep and sacred emotional place.  In "the real world", a submissive may be quite strong and self-reliant.  But, with a Dom/me, they have discarded their defenses, in a profound show of trust.  To me, submission is a delicate crystal rose, that I hold in my hand.  I have been entrusted with preserving it.  Even the slightest *** or misstep could forever destroy its beauty.  Being a Dom is hard work.  Doubts and second-guessing are a perpetual reality.  I am surprised that so many take it so lightly.  For me, the gift of submission tends to bring tears to my eyes.  This is not out of sadness, or pity, or some other dark emotion.  Rather, their submission has touched a place deep inside of me---my own emotional place, that is naked and defenseless.

I know that I have said this before.  But, it bears repeating.  The power that is freely given to me, is not mine to keep.  I must return it, by doing what I do, as a Dom.  It is not about how much power I have.  But, about how much energy continually flows in the loop.  I can only hope that those who submit to me, will use the knowledge and energy that they have gained from me, to improve their own lives, in the ways that they have always dreamed.

I have one, final thought on the topic of "Airs and Graces".  It is a thought that I direct mostly at the Doms and Dominas out there (though it applies to all)---proof read!  As Dominants, you have become skilled at controlling situations.  You need to get a handle on controlling this one.  Sadly, it is the old-school D-types of my own age group, who need to learn this the most.  We have grown accustomed to our words being clear, through the context of eye-contact, vocal tone, facial expression, body language, etc.  However, in this all-electronic, text-only format, our words can sometimes take-on multiple meanings.  We need to proof-read, to catch the ambiguities, and make ourselves clear.  Just as in "real life", we need to do what is necessary, to stay in control of the situation.  Of course, with understanding and empathy always kept in mind.

[Deleted Member]

Just now, phoenyx said:

 

Just now, phoenyx said:

So, submission comes from a deep and sacred emotional place.  In "the real world", a submissive may be quite strong and self-reliant.  But, with a Dom/me, they have discarded their defenses, in a profound show of trust.  To me, submission is a delicate crystal rose, that I hold in my hand.  I have been entrusted with preserving it.  Even the slightest *** or misstep could forever destroy its beauty.  Being a Dom is hard work.  Doubts and second-guessing are a perpetual reality.  I am surprised that so many take it so lightly.  For me, the gift of submission tends to bring tears to my eyes.  This is not out of sadness, or pity, or some other dark emotion.  Rather, their submission has touched a place deep inside of me---my own emotional place, that is naked and defenseless.

 

Thank you @phoenyx that was a beautiful description.

[Carnelian2]

44 minutes ago, phoenyx said:

It cannot be stated enough, that "submission" is a gift!  In this modern society, we have all been ingrained with the concepts of egalitarianism.  So, submission comes from a deep and sacred emotional place.  In "the real world", a submissive may be quite strong and self-reliant.  But, with a Dom/me, they have discarded their defenses, in a profound show of trust.  To me, submission is a delicate crystal rose, that I hold in my hand.  I have been entrusted with preserving it.  Even the slightest *** or misstep could forever destroy its beauty.

This made me smile in a good way, as it reminded me of a conversation here, a while back, when a number of Dom(mes) balked at the prospect of submission being a gift whilst complaining about topping from the bottom. You put it far better than I ever could by comparing it to a delicate rose. 

I am setting out with shibari and am by no means an expert. One of the most attractive things about shibari is that literal bond of trust between rope-top and -bottom. I have also witnessed the tenderness between the two during and after the scene, which is both amazing to witness and a true honour to experience.

[Phoenyx]

2 hours ago, CaveBear said:

The Wording for doormat was just to express that a slave is willing to give up everything and be treated as such if her owner wishes to do so

Over the years, I have noticed quite a few misconceptions concerning the art of "***".  It is an applied technique, much like impact play.  And, it takes at-least as much skill.  Though I do have certain experience with this, I am by-no-means an expert on the subject.  So, as I offer my perspective, please feel free to post any corrections or rebuttals that you might have.

***, like many other forms of "play", is a means to an end.  Typically, it allows the sub or slave to reach some deep, dark, ambiguous place within.  The experience helps to make that mysterious dark place ever-more tangible.  Despite how it might appear to the outside observer, this technique is not applied with a sledgehammer.  Rather, it is more analogous to the skill of a surgeon.

Each step of a *** scene is carefully planned.  With each phase of the process, the Dom/me carefully observes the reactions of the sub or slave, so that the Dom/me knows how to proceed next.  The Dom/me creates a winding path through the psyche of the sub, gingerly avoiding those emotions that need to be left untouched, unharmed.  The sub enjoys being degraded, not because they are (necessarily) looking without, seeing themselves in this situation.  But rather, they are looking within---watching their objective draw ever-closer.  It is very much a case of being in "sub space".

Eventually, the path is created.  The dark, amorphous form becomes real and tangible.  The sub can now (metaphorically) grab that object with both hands.  This is where "The Twist" comes-in".  It may come in the form of subtle innuendos from the Dom/me.  Or, it might be an outright question to the sub.  Essentially, the twist is this: "Do you wish to continue being a _____?  Or, will you take what you now have in your grasp, own it, and draw strength from it?  Then, there is the aftercare---the holding, the closeness, the moment when both sub and Dom/me hold their prize aloft, and gloat.  If the whole process is done properly, the sub or slave should emerge from the experience stronger, not weaker.

The question has been raised, as to why someone might want the more immersive experience of being a full-time slave, under such conditions.  I suspect, that they have come to enjoy the adventure of exploring all of those dark places.  Of course, such BDSM relationships are always transitory.  At some point, the slave will run out of caverns to explore.  And so, comes the parting-of-the-ways---usually as friends.  That former slave may even go on to become a Dom/me themselves---eager to share their healing experience with others.

Of course, this is how it should work.  Abusive relationships are a completely different matter.

[Th****]

3 hours ago, phoenyx said:

With all of this recent discussion of "The Old Guard"

 

43 minutes ago, phoenyx said:

Over the years,

As always, @phoenyx hitting several nails precisely on their heads. *Applause*

[Leisa]

7 hours ago, phoenyx said:

With all of this recent discussion of "The Old Guard",  I feel compelled to respond---and perhaps allay a few misconceptions.  First, the topic at-hand, "Airs and Graces".  In this new realm of the 21st Century, the prevailing mindset seems to be "on-or-off", "all-or-nothing".  This is not only true in "The Scene", but, in the "vanilla" world as well---especially in the vanilla world.  Certainly, social media and all-electronic communication have played a role in this.  My point is, that the middle ground appears to have been forgotten.

One does not necessarily need to use "Sir" or "Ma'am" to retain a respectful tone.  Think about this situation:  You're in the parking lot at the market, when you see a lady unknowingly drop a package, while loading her purchases into her car.  You notice that she will likely leave, without retrieving her lost item.  So, you approach, to let her know.  Your tone is neutral, yet respectful.  You maintain that tone, until you see whether formality or informality is indicated.  Such a technique is truly an art---one that I ***, may have been lost, in this new technological world.

One thing, however, has not changed.  Back in the 90's, The Scene was filled with just as many attitudes and insecurities, as it is today.  It is an aspect of human nature that will likely never change.  The decade of the 1990's was truly the "Wild West" of the BDSM scene.  That decade saw BDSM explode into mainstream culture, through underground-nightclub shows and grand fetish events.  Consequently, a few Doms from my time, tend to see themselves as god-like pioneers.  "Without us,..."  They seem to forget, that being a Dom means being in control of one's self, as much as being in control of others.

It cannot be stated enough, that "submission" is a gift!  In this modern society, we have all been ingrained with the concepts of egalitarianism.  So, submission comes from a deep and sacred emotional place.  In "the real world", a submissive may be quite strong and self-reliant.  But, with a Dom/me, they have discarded their defenses, in a profound show of trust.  To me, submission is a delicate crystal rose, that I hold in my hand.  I have been entrusted with preserving it.  Even the slightest *** or misstep could forever destroy its beauty.  Being a Dom is hard work.  Doubts and second-guessing are a perpetual reality.  I am surprised that so many take it so lightly.  For me, the gift of submission tends to bring tears to my eyes.  This is not out of sadness, or pity, or some other dark emotion.  Rather, their submission has touched a place deep inside of me---my own emotional place, that is naked and defenseless.

I know that I have said this before.  But, it bears repeating.  The power that is freely given to me, is not mine to keep.  I must return it, by doing what I do, as a Dom.  It is not about how much power I have.  But, about how much energy continually flows in the loop.  I can only hope that those who submit to me, will use the knowledge and energy that they have gained from me, to improve their own lives, in the ways that they have always dreamed.

I have one, final thought on the topic of "Airs and Graces".  It is a thought that I direct mostly at the Doms and Dominas out there (though it applies to all)---proof read!  As Dominants, you have become skilled at controlling situations.  You need to get a handle on controlling this one.  Sadly, it is the old-school D-types of my own age group, who need to learn this the most.  We have grown accustomed to our words being clear, through the context of eye-contact, vocal tone, facial expression, body language, etc.  However, in this all-electronic, text-only format, our words can sometimes take-on multiple meanings.  We need to proof-read, to catch the ambiguities, and make ourselves clear.  Just as in "real life", we need to do what is necessary, to stay in control of the situation.  Of course, with understanding and empathy always kept in mind.

Thank you. Well put.

[PixieDust]

This is the first chance I have had to post since the other day when I first uploaded the topic on “Airs & Graces” and I have to say I have been truly blown away by everyone’s responses.  I honesty cannot thank you all enough for your input, insight, and valuable opinions on the whole subject matter.

Even though I am still conflicted in my mind and in my heart for that matter, your comments have given me so much food for thought and I think I will ponder this topic for many more days to come.

I do however wonder what future generations of our community will think of us in say 20 or 30 or even 100 years’ time.  Will we be referred to as the geriatrics of BDSM where new and old finally met and grew together as one?  Will our insights be equally discussed with such passion and vigor? Or will we be referred to as the “has beens” outdated and outmoded? I guess only time will.

The one thing I do take away from this, is that I think we all agree that manners and respect are still paramount and that no matter what dynamic we are in, what title we hold or what generation we come from, it is always good to remain polite and respectful of each other and our diverse opinions. 

Diamonds and Coal are equally beautiful in their own right.

 

[Carnelian2]

14 hours ago, Thebian said:

In return we of course accept new people into our ranks and it is our role to educate, inform, and share the knowledge that we have accumulated over the decades with those who come now. If those who come now are lacking in knowledge maybe it is our generation that are poorer teachers than those that taught us..

Very good post and well expressed, particularly the bit about welcoming others and impart knowledge. We all learn from each other. I started off in D/s many years ago, but never really found my role, partly due to *** (mainly) and maybe because where I thought I fitted obviously wasn't where I actually fit. 

I am open to learn from everyone, regardless of "experience", "roles", etc. - we are all individuals and we all bring something that we can share with others. 

To do otherwise would be to stagnate.

[Phoenyx]

Of interest in this discussion, is the bane of everyone's existence on this list---the endless barrage of "Hello" messages.  How does one respond, with nothing to go on?  So often, I have been tempted to reply, "State your business."  But, that seems rather curt, bordering on rude.  Of course, some may actually be expecting that from a Dom/me.  Still, how can one tell, from little more than "Hello" or "Hi"?  Too often, there is no info in their profile, either.

There is, needless to say, the problem with scammers and spammers.  These are easily the largest source of generic "Hello" messages.  I hate to be rude, and not respond.  But, how can I tell the legitimate messages from the junk?  How do I know that fifty other folks weren't sent the same message, à la copy-and-paste ?

The legitimate messages that I get from women (not counting scammers and the rude-and-crude) seem to fall into four distinct categories:

•  Those seeking advice
• Those merely looking for kinky friends for chat
•  Those seeking a full relationship
•  And, those merely wanting an online Master, for occasional internet play. 

One needs to mention up-front, which of these is the reason for contact.  It would make responses so much easier (and more likely).  I understand that Doms can be intimidating.  But, if one has had the courage to join this site, now is not the time to chicken-out.  "State your business!"  (in a respectful manner, or course)

Legitimate contacts from men, pretty-much fall into the same four categories.  Of interest though, is the last category---those merely wanting an online Master, for occasional internet play.  There are actually two subcategories to this.  Obviously, there are those who are gay or "bi".  For them, a gay master would be their best bet---for the proper dynamic.  However, there are also quite a few "straight" submissive men, who do not feel comfortable being dominated by a woman.  Yes, this is a legitimate kink.  So, the kink-shamers need to lay-off!

This last subcategory is, of course, a very tricky, difficult, and restricted dynamic.  Any "sexuality" is a hard limit.  But, it has been done.  A couple weeks ago, I got a message from an older man, whom I suspect (from reading his profile) was seeking advice on this subject.  Unfortunately, his "Hello" message got lost in the shuffle.  For that, I apologize.  To be fair, I'm sure that there are just as many straight submissive women, who feel uncomfortable being dominated by a man.  Perhaps, the purveyors of this list, could add this niche kink to their "List of Kinks & Fetishes", so that folks don't feel so reticent to come forward.  Does this kink even have a name?

[Carnelian2]

@phoenyx From the perspective of a male that constantly is shown what I think I want to not actually be what I need, it can be difficult to strike up a conversation. 

I have found the approach to simply get to know people most useful. If there are no expectations, nobody has any hidden motives and you can actually have a conversation. 

Some become contacts, some drift away after a while - just like vanilla life.

Of course, this takes patience, but what is wrong with that. A slow cooked casserole tastes a lot richer than one put together in the fraction of time, as the depth and flavour has had time to develop :)