"Submission is a 'gift'" (or is it?)

[MsDrawers]

I wrote this a while ago, but it's a topic I see coming up repeatedly, so it seems worth sharing it for those who are new and finding their way around kink, whatever their flavours: 

Ah, this age-old, fifty shadesesque question. I've had things with "submission is a gift" types, safe in the knowledge they're never penetrating more than a handful of inches. I've had things too, with their opposite and as with most things the desirable point is one of considerably dirtier murk. I'm no been-splitting-willing-whimpering-subs-dainty-arseholes-with-Godzilla-cocks-since-before-you-were-a-foetus kinda old-timer but I can appreciate the comfort of considering a warm, paternal care when first you expose your slutty tendencies to the cold and unforgiving air. The *** and vinegar of what we do is some fetid, lumpen thing of gift-wrapped ugly, no?  But I'm feeling all warped and pedantic so my two-penneth:

That intoxicating joy of getting closer to your sexuality could pass off as some delicious present at first blush. Until you examine each faltering step in to the dark, your comfort zone some distant stopover on the way to the glorious fires of eternal damnation. Having found myself cast off and flailing in the abyss, my hand unceremoniously let go, I understand, as must we all, just how dependent navigating these waters safely is on shared trusts, demonstrated obligations, whispered intimacies. Little gifty about that.

But what of gifts themselves? Trifling tokens of gratitude, feel-good, thought-of-you parcels of whatever-you-likes and heartfelt offerings of love and affection. Ritualistic manifestations of the markers we set our lives by: births and birthdays, weddings, christenings, deaths, divorces. Do we tend to pass them on to those we encounter fleetingly, by chance, or are they nestled within the complexities of social relationships and shared meanings?

Mauss was at ***s, in his studies of societies, to demonstrate the complex and multifarious social functions of "the gift". Rather than being some no-strings token, he argued, gifts are part of the complex tapestry of belongjng, of social standing - and its upwards slippage - of patronage, given as a means of cementing connections, displaying wealth and means. Gifts then, derive their meaning, from the matrices of shared trusts, demonstrated obligations and whispered intimacies from which we derive our sense of social being.

Put simply; submission is at least as much a glorious gift as dominance and every shade of mutually-negotiated exchange inbetween and far beyond. Just as long as we all understand that a gift never is.

[Ropebunny-9495]

As long as the top is equally committed as the bottom. In my experience, this is just not so. DOMs seem like sadistic ego maniacs and very much more venal than myself. If you are going to beat me, shouldn’t you pay me ? Usually I as a sub am left holding the rope. Should it not be committed on everyone’s part ?

[Deleted Member]

I've personally always thought that submission being called a gift was really risky. A gift can’t be taken back when you decide someone is mistreating it. A gift is given freely, without any expectation of getting something in return. A gift is just given, it’s not something you have to earn. Submission isn’t any of those things.

While I do believe that submission isn’t submission if you’re only doing it to make your partner feel like they owe you something, I also believe that submissives have a right to either get their needs met or end the relationship. If you accept someone’s submission, you need to hold up your end of the deal. Maybe all your partner wants is someone who will give them the opportunity to serve without getting uncomfortable with it and insisting on doing things for them. Maybe they need to feel dominated, maybe they need to feel owned and cherished, maybe they need some play now and then. Whatever it is a submissive person needs out of the whole exchange, they have a right to need it. A Dom who takes and gives nothing back is not a Dom at all, but a leech.

Finally, I believe Dominants should earn their partner’s submission. Or more precisely, I believe submissive people have every right to judge potential partners and decide whether they’re worthy of submitting to. Not that trying to be a good person entitles you to anyone’s submission, but it can’t hurt for Doms to ask themselves why someone would want to submit to them. If you’re not willing to keep your word, to be honest about what you want and what you have to give, to know yourself well enough to do that, to look out for your submissive’s best interests, why should anyone submit to you?

Submissive people are awesome, but calling submission a gift leads to all sorts of bad ideas of what to do with such a gift once it is given.

[Deleted Member]

6 hours ago, FtMSIRx said:

I've personally always thought that submission being called a gift was really risky. A gift can’t be taken back when you decide someone is mistreating it. A gift is given freely, without any expectation of getting something in return. A gift is just given, it’s not something you have to earn. Submission isn’t any of those things.

While I do believe that submission isn’t submission if you’re only doing it to make your partner feel like they owe you something, I also believe that submissives have a right to either get their needs met or end the relationship. If you accept someone’s submission, you need to hold up your end of the deal. Maybe all your partner wants is someone who will give them the opportunity to serve without getting uncomfortable with it and insisting on doing things for them. Maybe they need to feel dominated, maybe they need to feel owned and cherished, maybe they need some play now and then. Whatever it is a submissive person needs out of the whole exchange, they have a right to need it. A Dom who takes and gives nothing back is not a Dom at all, but a leech.

Finally, I believe Dominants should earn their partner’s submission. Or more precisely, I believe submissive people have every right to judge potential partners and decide whether they’re worthy of submitting to. Not that trying to be a good person entitles you to anyone’s submission, but it can’t hurt for Doms to ask themselves why someone would want to submit to them. If you’re not willing to keep your word, to be honest about what you want and what you have to give, to know yourself well enough to do that, to look out for your submissive’s best interests, why should anyone submit to you?

Submissive people are awesome, but calling submission a gift leads to all sorts of bad ideas of what to do with such a gift once it is given.

Preach

[qu****]

Put simply in a BDSM sense submission is a gift of trust, the greatest gift there is, even with one offs. Any likes or dislikes, soft or hard limits carefully discussed beforehand, then and only then should your submission or dominance be placed in the hands of another. A gift is rarely if ever given to a total stranger, only given to those you know in some sense,

[Deleted Member]

Yes I heard that expression so many times especially from newbies. It’s looks like these plaque quotes you from gift shop on holidays... these one is the bdsm gifts shop 

if one is going to give a signification to her/his submission then they miss the point. 

[Deleted Member]

10 hours ago, RopeBunny said:

As long as the top is equally committed as the bottom. In my experience, this is just not so. DOMs seem like sadistic ego maniacs and very much more venal than myself. If you are going to beat me, shouldn’t you pay me ? Usually I as a sub am left holding the rope. Should it not be committed on everyone’s part ?

What? All doms seem like sadistic egomaniacs? You've perhaps had some negative experiences with doms (as have had I). You cannot judge everyone by that standard. Why should you be paid for a beating - what do you even mean?

[Deleted Member]

17 minutes ago, FabSeverus said:

Yes I heard that expression so many times especially from newbies. It’s looks like these plaque quotes you from gift shop on holidays... these one is the bdsm gifts shop 

if one is going to give a signification to her/his submission then they miss the point. 

Has always seemed like that to me as well and I'm a sub! None of it makes any sense or has any meaning for me. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[Deleted Member]

6 hours ago, FabSeverus said:

Yes I heard that expression so many times especially from newbies. It’s looks like these plaque quotes you from gift shop on holidays... these one is the bdsm gifts shop 

if one is going to give a signification to her/his submission then they miss the point. 

Yet again you steamroller, attacking one you know nothing of. Maybe some guidance and friendly words would be a better approach with this "Newbie." A gift shop? Bollocks, just another's opinion that doesn't match yours, and submission carries huge significance, especially for those who have the ability to think.

[Leisa]

18 hours ago, RopeBunny said:

As long as the top is equally committed as the bottom. In my experience, this is just not so. DOMs seem like sadistic ego maniacs and very much more venal than myself. If you are going to beat me, shouldn’t you pay me ? Usually I as a sub am left holding the rope. Should it not be committed on everyone’s part ?

I’m sorry you’ve had such horrible experiences. I’ve not found the Doms I’ve been involved with, either as a dynamic or as dear friends, to be that way unless they go into the dynamic of a Master/slave. Even then I’ve found them not to be egotistical at all and if you’re thinking a Sadist is such you’ve obviously never seen a true M/s dynamic. Sadists cherish that which has been entrusted to them. Why would anyone want to break what belongs to them. As a traditional submissive with a bratty twist I’ve found that honest, open communication is key and without it a dynamic is lost anyway. Again I’m sorry that is the way you view things but to skewer the entire community of Doms because is a few lousy experiences is to ***t subs with the brush of doormat for accepting such behavior. Maybe you should step back and reassess where you’re coming from and what your expectations are. Maybe it’s not their fault you see them as such but something you must deal with to find the dynamic suited for you.

[Leisa]

I don’t think of submitting as a gift to anyone but myself. It’s a gift to me to have the ability to see the larger picture and to have that level of trust that has been earned by my partner within the dynamic. To allow another the privilege of knowing me and earning the right to call me his own.

[Deleted Member]

31 minutes ago, Leisa said:

I don’t think of submitting as a gift to anyone but myself. It’s a gift to me to have the ability to see the larger picture and to have that level of trust that has been earned by my partner within the dynamic. To allow another the privilege of knowing me and earning the right to call me his own.

I agree Leisa 100%

[Deleted Member]

3 hours ago, DonnyPrimal said:

Yet again you steamroller, attacking one you know nothing of. Maybe some guidance and friendly words would be a better approach with this "Newbie." A gift shop? Bollocks, just another's opinion that doesn't match yours, and submission carries huge significance, especially for those who have the ability to think.

Donny, I agreed with him - on the surface yes it sounds like a hackneyed phrase. The discussion is about whether the phrase has any value isn't it? And I don't believe that KKInk is a newbie either.

[Deleted Member]

1 hour ago, Leisa said:

I’m sorry you’ve had such horrible experiences. I’ve not found the Doms I’ve been involved with, either as a dynamic or as dear friends, to be that way unless they go into the dynamic of a Master/slave. Even then I’ve found them not to be egotistical at all and if you’re thinking a Sadist is such you’ve obviously never seen a true M/s dynamic. Sadists cherish that which has been entrusted to them. Why would anyone want to break what belongs to them. As a traditional submissive with a bratty twist I’ve found that honest, open communication is key and without it a dynamic is lost anyway. Again I’m sorry that is the way you view things but to skewer the entire community of Doms because is a few lousy experiences is to ***t subs with the brush of doormat for accepting such behavior. Maybe you should step back and reassess where you’re coming from and what your expectations are. Maybe it’s not their fault you see them as such but something you must deal with to find the dynamic suited for you.

Completely agree -

[Deleted Member]

3 minutes ago, Curvykate said:

Donny, I agreed with him - on the surface yes it sounds like a hackneyed phrase. The discussion is about whether the phrase has any value isn't it? And I don't believe that KKInk is a newbie either.

Hence the invetered commas..

[Deleted Member]

9 minutes ago, DonnyPrimal said:

Hence the invetered commas..

Ok. I think fab can defend himself lol but I didn't get why you were angry. We usually agree.

[Deleted Member]

Thanks Kate, I could have done it myself but I don’t get involved in personal arguments on forum anymore. It’s disrespectful to start with for the op and it add that toxic atmosphere we saw so many time in the past. 
 

so to clarify, as if needed it, I didn’t imply Kkink was a newbie as my reply wasn’t directed to her but I was giving  an opinion. 
second I wasn’t saying submission is meaningless or insignificant, but one doesn’t have to be a submissive with a value for someone but herself.     

not all submissions are the same..... 

[TeeJay_98]

Its not the submission that is the gift

Both /all roles are commendable 

 

The s type gifts their D by lending them power, amongst other things... 😏 

 

In return the D type gifts the s by keeping them safe before, during and after that power has been exchanged. 

 

[Deleted Member]

2 hours ago, TeeJay_98 said:

Its not the submission that is the gift

Both /all roles are commendable 

 

The s type gifts their D by lending them power, amongst other things... 😏 

 

In return the D type gifts the s by keeping them safe before, during and after that power has been exchanged. 

 

This is spot on in my view.
It's not called a power exchange for the sake of it. It is transactional no matter what way you look at it. But that certainly doesn't mean meaningless. If anything the transaction of exchanging such intimate parts of yourself can be increadibly meaningful. To exchange something so deep within us can be beautiful in the right company.

[MsDrawers]

This is a great topic and an important one, I think, for new people particularly. Just to clarify though, I in no way suggested I agreed with that statement. The writing speaks precisely to the mutual exchanges integral to sharing whether gifts or submission.