Jokey posts and sad female/male connections

[Ae****]

Couple of thoughts I had prompted by posts and comments I've seen repeatedly. All just imho.

Making jokey posts can hurt and annoy. So if people react negatively to such posts, it's bizarre to be annoyed at them for doing so - if you don't get why they're upset, well, that's a shame but that's ok. It's still valid.

Annnnd....*maybe*... jokey posters can self reflect why so many people complain, so often. Maybe they're all whiny, touchy people or... maybe... it's you. This is such a common thing with such posts, it should be glaringly obvious. It could be hard to see because it's very uncomfortable to examine ourselves in this way. Saying it's a joke is a very weak argument. It's certainly possible for your jokey post to be in bad taste and also for you to really struggle to see why or how. After all, no one wants to think they're not basically a nice, good person.

And all public posts can prompt discussion, it's totally valid, whether you want it be, agree to the the concept, or not 🤦🤷🏻‍♂️ That's reality.

Regarding the unfortunate experiences of so many women with men on the site, a similar idea applies - such women can maybe think about why they're such a magnet for this. Look at yourselves. Same goes for men of course. If you're having lots and lots of bad interactions, look at yourselves.

Because, news flash, there are a lot of women loving men and life. If you're not... well, sorry. That's tragic. And yeah, it's common to have your experience. Maybe it's the norm among the people you talk to, your social circle. But it's not every woman's experience, and those that enjoy men, good men, are themselves good women, catches, worthy of being with good men.

Good men are talking to some women and moving on fast. They see the red flags. Or they're not even talking to you in the first place. Not interested at all, from the get-go, they see you for what you are. Or you're selecting yourself out of getting to know one by being unfriendly, or finding fault where there really isn't any, because you're looking for some guy who conforms to your unhealthy idea of what's great, and you're just difficult in general. The good men whom you reject are happy to see you go, and laughing at your silliness as you disappear.

You put out toxic signals in everything you do, your pics, how you talk on here, in your profile etc etc. And then you're surprised that so few good men contact you amongst all the bad. Hmmm. The good men and woman are all finding eachother, like magnets, and are repulsed by the bad.

Constantly harping on about this kinda problem in a particularly unproductive, unhelpfully manner, joking about it in ways that annoy and hurt people... Well, hey, such posters are getting back exactly what they're putting out. They're attracting certain kinds of men because of who they are on a deep level.

Some jokes have truth in them. And some jokes have a lot of bitterness behind them.

The description of your character is in your posts, responses and comments . It may be not an attractive one at all, if you could see clearly.

[Deleted Member]

Ooooh you are going to get blasted for this. You make some very valid points, but no one likes to come face to face with criticism that hits home.

I found the recent "funny" forum posts in bads taste, and cruel in actuality, and the drama that came after was embarrassing to read.

It also hasn't been my experience that most men on here are crude and/ or rude. Are there some unpleasant messages? Yes. Are most people polite and respectful? In my inbox, yes. Maybe that's because I'm older and it's akin to cheeking your mum? lol I don't know.

There's a whiff of "If you dress like that, you're asking for it" about your post, though. If I was you, I'd brace.

[Deleted Member]

Agreed, well said and yep jokey posts are generally tinged with a "hidden" bitterness that's plain to see if one can read between the lines.

[Deleted Member]

This is spot on. The jokes wear thin the caustic sarcasm has a sell-by date, and behind all of them hides the truth. A brave post but very true nonetheless x

[CopperKnob]

Maybe some jokey posts aren't based in the OP's experience at all but on the experiences of others that they learn about by speaking to them? Maybe those others are really good people with decent profiles that shouldn't be attracting the attention they do?
Maybe those attracting the inappropriate attention are new and don't know how to avoid it?
Maybe if a sub, they're experiencing sub frenzy and unwittingly encouraging it?
Maybe, maybe not 🤷‍♀️
Just a different perspective given my jokey post got posted the same time as yours and really, sometimes its easier to write something that isn't serious, doom and gloom but still gets the message across in a lighthearted way

[Ae****]

It's mat be the norm among the people you happen to talk to, your social circle. It's not everyone's experience though.
If the women you talk to are good people, and a great catch - they get plenty of attention from great guys. If they're not, that's telling you something very clear about them. You may think they're great, but maybe they're not great from the pov of a great guy, which is the real measure.
Like great girls, great guys aren't single long. They also don't indulge in antagonistic behaviour or enjoy hanging around people who do. Great women don't need to complain about men, because they're getting plenty of attention from sexy, fun, considerate ones.
Being a newbie doesn't make you a victim. It's fine if your sensible, smart etc. If you're not those things, then your prey and will attract predators. You're not a catch for a great guy. They're not interested in you. When you're a catch, you know how to avoid this kinda thing, you don't fall for it, and it doesn't bug you when you meet problem people. You just laugh at them and move on fast. That's part of what makes you a great catch.
As said above, posts like yours, many of them, seem bitter and antagonise many. I wish you'd be more sympathetic, and be more upbeat about things in a more inclusive way. That's entirely possible. That helps your doom and gloom issue and also takes care of needless negativity. You've had a *lot* of feedback that's its not lighthearted. I know it's hard to see another perspective.
And it can even be funny, that's totally possible and fun! But the humour in many posts on here is hurtful and it feels like bitterness behind it.

[Ae****]

11 hours ago, Charmander said:

Ooooh you are going to get blasted for this. You make some very valid points, but no one likes to come face to face with criticism that hits home.

I found the recent "funny" forum posts in bads taste, and cruel in actuality, and the drama that came after was embarrassing to read.

It also hasn't been my experience that most men on here are crude and/ or rude. Are there some unpleasant messages? Yes. Are most people polite and respectful? In my inbox, yes. Maybe that's because I'm older and it's akin to cheeking your mum? lol I don't know.

There's a whiff of "If you dress like that, you're asking for it" about your post, though. If I was you, I'd brace.

Bracing hard 😂 but yeah I thought many wouldn't like it. I think I'm totally relaxed about that. Agree, facing ourselves is a rough, lonely road. But I think we're all inherently good. Sadly we're prone to beating ourselves up more than anyone else ever could or would.

[Deleted Member]

Before I comment: With this I am not participating in a personal discussion between two people, the following is a general observation I have made on many different threads. 

When I first joined I was naive and paid for it. Honestly, I didn't know better, had hardly any experience with online dating and I had to learn to laugh at predators and to move on fast. So it is not as easy as you say:

4 hours ago, Aeonova said:

Being a newbie doesn't make you a victim. It's fine if your sensible, smart etc. If you're not those things, then your prey and will attract predators. You're not a catch for a great guy. They're not interested in you. When you're a catch, you know how to avoid this kinda thing, you don't fall for it, and it doesn't bug you when you meet problem people. You just laugh at them and move on fast. That's part of what makes you a great catch.

May I add, unfortunately it is not as easy as this and at times being a newbie can make you a victim.

However, just like this is a generalisation, I have seen many generalisations in other posts. But as you say, it is in these generalisations that we could see the potential for discussions. And here is the reason for me commenting: What I have observed a bit too often is that when someone contradicts an OP (and again, this is NOT about one specific person, this is a "trend" I've seen), this contradiction is not seen as a counterargument or a different perspective, but as an aggressive act. By doing this, a potentially fruitful discussion is stopped by insisting on being right. But what do we win through this? How brilliant would it be if we could have dialogues and through these dialogues learn to understand what the other side is thinking. With openness to other opinions and perspectives, we can either learn or find ways to change someone's mind. Because when we know why they think what they think we can tailor our own counterarguments. The word "mansplaining" exists for a reason, no doubt about that. But if it is used to shut down conversations then we're losing out on a culture of discussion. And now I brace myself as well, but this has been working in me for a while now and I have to let it out. 

[CopperKnob]

5 hours ago, Aeonova said:

It's mat be the norm among the people you happen to talk to, your social circle. It's not everyone's experience though.
If the women you talk to are good people, and a great catch - they get plenty of attention from great guys. If they're not, that's telling you something very clear about them. You may think they're great, but maybe they're not great from the pov of a great guy, which is the real measure.
Like great girls, great guys aren't single long. They also don't indulge in antagonistic behaviour or enjoy hanging around people who do. Great women don't need to complain about men, because they're getting plenty of attention from sexy, fun, considerate ones.
Being a newbie doesn't make you a victim. It's fine if your sensible, smart etc. If you're not those things, then your prey and will attract predators. You're not a catch for a great guy. They're not interested in you. When you're a catch, you know how to avoid this kinda thing, you don't fall for it, and it doesn't bug you when you meet problem people. You just laugh at them and move on fast. That's part of what makes you a great catch.
As said above, posts like yours, many of them, seem bitter and antagonise many. I wish you'd be more sympathetic, and be more upbeat about things in a more inclusive way. That's entirely possible. That helps your doom and gloom issue and also takes care of needless negativity. You've had a *lot* of feedback that's its not lighthearted. I know it's hard to see another perspective.
And it can even be funny, that's totally possible and fun! But the humour in many posts on here is hurtful and it feels like bitterness behind it.

Ah, so this post of yours is a passive aggressive response to my posts and yet when I did something similar, you called me out on it, interesting...
However, seeing as you seem to enjoy providing 'feedback' for others to reflect on I'll provide some for you, despite the fact that another commentor did the same this morning and whilst you say you reflected, you stuck to your guns and that's actually no different to what I've done on my posts but, there we are.
This mornings feedback hinted (and I appreciate I'm putting words into their mouth) that your post had an odour of misogynistic views, frankly, your comment above reeks of it. But, before I label you as such, to be fair, here's an opportunity for you to clarify a few points...
You're saying that the measure of a womens 'greatness' is determined by the very subjective view of a man?
And women can't be 'great' if they're single or have been single for a prolonged period of time?
You're also saying you can only be a victim if you aren't smart and sensible? That one's rhetorical because having worked with all genders who have or are experiencing controlling coercive relationships whether there's aspects of DA or SA or not, not one of those victims lacked in sensibility, common sense or intelligence unless they had an impairment or disturbance of the brain/mind and lacked mental capacity to make informed decisions.
Being a 'catch', I'm assuming in the aforementioned subjective view of a man, prevents you from being a victim? Also, not true. Again from working with adults in the CC, DA, SA relationships.
You've also suggested that my posts aren't inclusive, how is this inclusive, you've made no mention of men who fall victim to women or men who *** others, is it because those who do are also lacking in smartness/sensibility or does it only apply to those identifying as female?

Being new doesn't doesn't automatically determine whether you fall victim I agree however, known predators will approach newbies and being new does make you susceptible. Even the most prepared person can be taken in by a sufficiently skilled manipulator, to say otherwise is victim blaming.
Lastly, I think, you've commented that those reading posts often infer characteristics/personality traits of the poster so perhaps you should be careful in your response.
Actually, not lastly because I'll add this. Yes, some of my posts are about calling out the behaviour of men. It's not to say I've experienced all or any of it but we all know that, that behaviour does go on, here and elsewhere and that its not appropriate. If you aren't someone who participates in that behaviour and still take umbrage with it reminds me of the male response to the 'Me Too' movement and how it affected males chances of hooking up with females. Maybe thats just me inferring something untrue about you based on this post.

[Ae****]

18 minutes ago, tazzy said:

Before I comment: With this I am not participating in a personal discussion between two people, the following is a general observation I have made on many different threads. 

When I first joined I was naive and paid for it. Honestly, I didn't know better, had hardly any experience with online dating and I had to learn to laugh at predators and to move on fast. So it is not as easy as you say:

May I add, unfortunately it is not as easy as this and at times being a newbie can make you a victim.

However, just like this is a generalisation, I have seen many generalisations in other posts. But as you say, it is in these generalisations that we could see the potential for discussions. And here is the reason for me commenting: What I have observed a bit too often is that when someone contradicts an OP (and again, this is NOT about one specific person, this is a "trend" I've seen), this contradiction is not seen as a counterargument or a different perspective, but as an aggressive act. By doing this, a potentially fruitful discussion is stopped by insisting on being right. But what do we win through this? How brilliant would it be if we could have dialogues and through these dialogues learn to understand what the other side is thinking. With openness to other opinions and perspectives, we can either learn or find ways to change someone's mind. Because when we know why they think what they think we can tailor our own counterarguments. The word "mansplaining" exists for a reason, no doubt about that. But if it is used to shut down conversations then we're losing out on a culture of discussion. And now I brace myself as well, but this has been working in me for a while now and I have to let it out. 

Appreciate your thoughts, glad you shared :) 🙏

Certain kinds of discussions are pretty often not fun here. I've been told it goes in cycles, sometimes it's very argumentative, sometimes it's nice and cooperative.

Regarding learning to deal with problem people, predators, rude, etc etc, as a new person - I don't think it's at all easy to learn that. Men and women both deal with it. I did. It's hard, takes time and/or understanding/sympathy, and not everyone actually even gets past that stage.

Plenty of immature women exist, exactly the same amount as there are immature men. I think that's why the people who do learn to handle that stuff, and who get past cynicism at the end of all of it, and who are aware that not everyone is at the same level of maturity, that each person is on their own journey - well I think that they're the kinda people who are fun and relaxing to be around 😭

[ey****]

I've only read the first post and not subsequent further ones.  But, there's observations I've made over the years.

The first is that people tend to only talk about the bad when it comes to messages, approaches and conversations.

So you might know someone has had a bad message if they make a status, or a post or comment about it.
But you wouldn't know they'd had a good approach or good message.  Unless, of course, this results in things later going sour if for example the person ghosts - or - say it's found they'd been lying or not disclosing something major.

But then there are the good messages that will either fizzle out (so become forgotten about), or be "you're sweet but we have different goals" or perhaps do end up in some form of meet or more.

But sometimes it feels like men create this paradox that women simultantiously get so many messages that they don't stand a chance - while also - only attracting rubbish messages so therefore must be a rubbish person.

The truth is somewhere in the middle that if you understand how much rubbish women get in their inbox it's not that difficult to stand above it.

The failure is in assuming that only bad messages and negative interactions are received.

[Ae****]

I'm not looking for fights, so I didn't take the comment ss something to defend against 🤷🏻‍♂️
I disagree that it's a passive post or that there's misogyny anywhere.
Your character will attract a great people, regardless of your sex or theirs. If you're not getting that, that's your measure. If you're attracting not attracting solid people to you and are inundated with silly ones, that's a yardstick for you, whether you're male or female.
In terms of dating, if you're bemoaning the lack of good men out there and complaining a lot about all the bad, yeah you're not that great. Again, this applies to both sexes. There's a need to question what is not working because there are lots of people who are not having those issues. If women, or men, can't understand why they're not getting these great men, or women , when they wish one would come along... Well they need to go ahead and figure it out. They're not so great if they don't even know why things aren't working.
Regarding being in abusive relationships - yeah you're not a catch until you get over the mental burdens that led you into the relationship. When you can draw strong boundaries, identity toxic people and are also simultaneously able to be *** and trusting with careful selection - you're a catch. Your one of those great people. Until then, you need to do some more personal growth.
You are a catch when you've matured in all of these ways we're talking about.
I've already said all of these things apply to both sexes. I am baffled why you'd ask if I think they apply to both 🤷🏻‍♂️
A person with strong boundaries etc doesn't get tricked by predators. They fail, and so move on to others. Take responsibility for learning how to spot predators, set boundaries etc etc - and you don't fall for them anymore. Does everyone get the chance to take responsibility like that? No - many men and women are not able yh develop these skills. That's sad, but guess what, great men and women are hanging out with people who DO have these skills. That's another reason why they're catches.
I'm afraid i don't understand what you're saying at the end. And I'm very proud of my history of messages, including this one, though I'm always growing. Maybe in the future I'll look back at this and laugh, because I've grown past where I am now, but we'll see.

[Ae****]

37 minutes ago, CopperKnob said:

Ah, so this post of yours is a passive aggressive response to my posts and yet when I did something similar, you called me out on it, interesting...
However, seeing as you seem to enjoy providing 'feedback' for others to reflect on I'll provide some for you, despite the fact that another commentor did the same this morning and whilst you say you reflected, you stuck to your guns and that's actually no different to what I've done on my posts but, there we are.
This mornings feedback hinted (and I appreciate I'm putting words into their mouth) that your post had an odour of misogynistic views, frankly, your comment above reeks of it. But, before I label you as such, to be fair, here's an opportunity for you to clarify a few points...
You're saying that the measure of a womens 'greatness' is determined by the very subjective view of a man?
And women can't be 'great' if they're single or have been single for a prolonged period of time?
You're also saying you can only be a victim if you aren't smart and sensible? That one's rhetorical because having worked with all genders who have or are experiencing controlling coercive relationships whether there's aspects of DA or SA or not, not one of those victims lacked in sensibility, common sense or intelligence unless they had an impairment or disturbance of the brain/mind and lacked mental capacity to make informed decisions.
Being a 'catch', I'm assuming in the aforementioned subjective view of a man, prevents you from being a victim? Also, not true. Again from working with adults in the CC, DA, SA relationships.
You've also suggested that my posts aren't inclusive, how is this inclusive, you've made no mention of men who fall victim to women or men who *** others, is it because those who do are also lacking in smartness/sensibility or does it only apply to those identifying as female?

Being new doesn't doesn't automatically determine whether you fall victim I agree however, known predators will approach newbies and being new does make you susceptible. Even the most prepared person can be taken in by a sufficiently skilled manipulator, to say otherwise is victim blaming.
Lastly, I think, you've commented that those reading posts often infer characteristics/personality traits of the poster so perhaps you should be careful in your response.
Actually, not lastly because I'll add this. Yes, some of my posts are about calling out the behaviour of men. It's not to say I've experienced all or any of it but we all know that, that behaviour does go on, here and elsewhere and that its not appropriate. If you aren't someone who participates in that behaviour and still take umbrage with it reminds me of the male response to the 'Me Too' movement and how it affected males chances of hooking up with females. Maybe thats just me inferring something untrue about you based on this post.

👆 The above post is your response :)

[CopperKnob]

25 minutes ago, Aeonova said:

I'm not looking for fights, so I didn't take the comment ss something to defend against 🤷🏻‍♂️
I disagree that it's a passive post or that there's misogyny anywhere.
Your character will attract a great people, regardless of your sex or theirs. If you're not getting that, that's your measure. If you're attracting not attracting solid people to you and are inundated with silly ones, that's a yardstick for you, whether you're male or female.
In terms of dating, if you're bemoaning the lack of good men out there and complaining a lot about all the bad, yeah you're not that great. Again, this applies to both sexes. There's a need to question what is not working because there are lots of people who are not having those issues. If women, or men, can't understand why they're not getting these great men, or women , when they wish one would come along... Well they need to go ahead and figure it out. They're not so great if they don't even know why things aren't working.
Regarding being in abusive relationships - yeah you're not a catch until you get over the mental burdens that led you into the relationship. When you can draw strong boundaries, identity toxic people and are also simultaneously able to be *** and trusting with careful selection - you're a catch. Your one of those great people. Until then, you need to do some more personal growth.
You are a catch when you've matured in all of these ways we're talking about.
I've already said all of these things apply to both sexes. I am baffled why you'd ask if I think they apply to both 🤷🏻‍♂️
A person with strong boundaries etc doesn't get tricked by predators. They fail, and so move on to others. Take responsibility for learning how to spot predators, set boundaries etc etc - and you don't fall for them anymore. Does everyone get the chance to take responsibility like that? No - many men and women are not able yh develop these skills. That's sad, but guess what, great men and women are hanging out with people who DO have these skills. That's another reason why they're catches.
I'm afraid i don't understand what you're saying at the end. And I'm very proud of my history of messages, including this one, though I'm always growing. Maybe in the future I'll look back at this and laugh, because I've grown past where I am now, but we'll see.

I hope you do look back but rather than laugh, if you have matured/grown hopefully you'll be cringing

[Ae****]

24 minutes ago, CopperKnob said:

I hope you do look back but rather than laugh, if you have matured/grown hopefully you'll be cringing

I love and have compassion for myself. I think everyone is on their own journey, at different levels of maturity. I'm no different. So i wouldn't look at myself so negatively - and i wouldn't do that to anyone else either.
That you would, well, that's exactly the kind thing I'm talking about. That kinda thought says so much about you to people who are able to pick up on it. Cynicism, negativity, sarcasm, insults - solid, happy, KIND people are turned off by all of that, straight away.

[CopperKnob]

7 minutes ago, Aeonova said:

I love and have compassion for myself. I think everyone is on their own journey, at different levels of maturity. I'm no different. So i wouldn't look at myself so negatively - and i wouldn't do that to anyone else either.
That you would, well, that's exactly the kind thing I'm talking about. That kinda thought says so much about you to people who are able to pick up on it. Cynicism, negativity, sarcasm, insults - solid, happy, KIND people are turned off by all of that, straight away.

See you say you don't want to fight, you say you wouldn't be negative towards another person but its a real contradiction to everything you've written on this post

[Ae****]

13 minutes ago, CopperKnob said:

See you say you don't want to fight, you say you wouldn't be negative towards another person but its a real contradiction to everything you've written on this post

I'm assertive with my boundaries and defend others when they're being attacked, especially unfairly 🙁 I don't wish anything bad on the attackers though. That would be an unhealthy waste of time for me.

I certainly don't hope you look back and feel awful about yourself. That's such a horrible thing to want for a fellow human being, and what would that say about me? I just hope that they mature asap, for everyone's sake, including theirs. It's a bleak outlook, cynicism, sarcasm etc etc. Wouldn't wish it on anyone, and it's a tough time when a person is in that mental space.

[CopperKnob]

4 minutes ago, Aeonova said:

I'm assertive with my boundaries and defend others when they're being attacked, especially unfairly 🙁 I don't wish anything bad on the attackers though. That would be an unhealthy waste of time for me.

I certainly don't hope you look back and feel awful about yourself. That's such a horrible thing to want for a fellow human being, and what would that say about me? I just hope that they mature asap, for everyone's sake, including theirs. It's a bleak outlook, cynicism, sarcasm etc etc. Wouldn't wish it on anyone, and it's a tough time when a person is in that mental space.

I'll take your word for it, I wouldn't know

[Psuedom]

Considering this post is about "jokey posts", let me know when somebody says something funny... Because that's why I read them. 

[Deleted Member]

You're not amused by the fight for the last word?

[Psuedom]

I'm not going to claim that I find all jokes funny. All I know is that explaining a joke is like dissecting a frog... It's not funny and you kill it. 

[Deleted Member]

Unless the frog is already dead????? 🤔

[Psuedom]

1 hour ago, amy_snuggle said:

Unless the frog is already dead????? 🤔

I catch my own, so rarely the case. 

[Mz****]

Slightly off track, forgive me I'm focusing on the jokey,...and I think there is Definitely a place for it and fun posts, and comments, depending how you're defining jokey (for clarity I mean humorous, laughing with not at, not ***taking)..the constant diatribes, proclamations, and this is wrong this is right posts, however well intentioned, end up creating a hostile atmosphere alongside the "all x are this", "all y are that", the worst tempered with a "if you don't recognise this you're the problem" and a slew of resentments can quickly and easily develop, particularly when only once voice, one opinion or one viewpoint is tolerated,  opinions are often presented as facts yet are still just opinions however much the posters feel otherwise, the content as well as the way its presented absolutely doesn't allow for free expression, diversity of thought, debate or discussion let alone humour..the forums don't feel as welcoming or inviting as a result, lately they've felt more like a personal blog than forums..but of course that's only my opinion.

There is absolutely a need for posts that can help educate and keep us A/all safe, but kink is fucking fun, surely that should also be reflected in the forums and the comments made on them?

[ge****]

Personally I think any forum has space for both jokey and serious - the problem is the two often get conflated and confused in a textual format, particularly the jokey.

To use an example from a week or so ago - there was a post in which the OP made comments along the lines of "pencil dicks being of no use to anyone" - no emojis to indicate humour or jokes, no "lol's" or "lmao's" just a two line OP - and a couple of people, me included, called the OP out on it, at which point we were told to "chill out it was only a joke".

Now whether it was originally intended as a joke, or it "became" a joke when it was called into question only the OP will know, but it's a classic example of how a jokey post can be misconstrued without context of humour.

I think there are some posts which make serious points in a jokey way, and CopperKnob is someone who does that often, and, mostly, well IMHO - but again I can see how without context or being on a similar wavelength it may be taken wrongly and spark a fire - now that's not to criticise those posts and I do think there's room on both sides to acknowledge that something is satirical or tongue in cheek without attacking as often seems to be the case.

What I would say though is it's no different here than other Internet forums - I spent 5 years or so existing on the FabSwingers forums and most of these discussions and the gripes and counter-gripes have played out there too - even the character types are similar.