Slave vs Submissive

[Deleted Member]

  9 hours ago, britt1272 said:

A sub is usually pretty exclusive to the bed room and has their own personality in normal life, while a slave is like a full time sub in and out of the bedroom

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Not true. My sub and I live the lifestyle 24/7.

[Deleted Member]

  9 hours ago, cakayakdiver said:

I think it's supposed to be pretty simple. A slave does what they are told because they have no choice. A submissive does what they're told because they choose to. A submissive doing something they'd rather not do because their Dom asked it, is a very powerful and sexy thing. A slave doing the same thing is from a position of weakness, and that doesn't seem sexy or even safe.

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It's not nice to judge other's kinks. A Master/slave dynamic is just as sexy and safe to those engaging in it as any other dynamic. The safety aspect is taken care of by proper negotiation, communication, and honesty BEFORE playing or committing to the dynamic.

[Deleted Member]

  9 hours ago, jak1401 said:

I guess slaves are like really intense submissives in my thought. minimal limits etc etc. submissives I’d say have lighter stuff?

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Not true at all. My submissive is into ***, big time.

[te****]

Ok, sub is a broad term that is divided into different types, These types(slave included)are based off a lot of what the sub is into and even what type of dom he/she/etc is into

[Deleted Member]

  1 hour ago, tex2276 said:

Ok, sub is a broad term that is divided into different types, These types(slave included)are based off a lot of what the sub is into and even what type of dom he/she/etc is into

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Actually, no. A submissive is distinctly different from a submissive. A Master OWNS a slave. A Dominant has a submissive.

[ey****]

  52 minutes ago, jzarvey said:

Actually, no. A submissive is distinctly different from a submissive. A Master OWNS a slave. A Dominant has a submissive.

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but what does either of those *actually* mean?

[te****]

  1 hour ago, jzarvey said:

Actually, no. A submissive is distinctly different from a submissive. A Master OWNS a slave. A Dominant has a submissive.

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A master is a type of dom, a slave is a type of sub

[Sk****]

Could I venture to suggest that both are submissive but on a spectrum where one hands over fewer “rights” of their personhood to their Dom, and in varying degrees.

For example, a sub may decide to relinquish themselves only during a scene, or with regard to certain negotiated activities during the day. A slave’s service is more toward absolving all rights of their personhood in favor of their Dom, for the sole purpose of, dare I say, free use?

A dynamic between a Dom and a sub is more of a back and forth - a shared power - negotiation of terms.

A dynamic between a Dom and a slave is one in which the slave relinquishes their power to the Dom - non-negotiation. More of a “I’ll do whatever Sir says,” kind of role.

That’s my understanding of it anyway.

I think either can be full-time and isn’t limited to just the bedroom.

I also think either can be “owned.”

I think in a Dom/sub dynamic, it’s about the pleasure and satisfaction of the Dom, and the Dom is looking to nurture/teach the sub lessons in subspace.

And I think in a Dom/slave dynamic, it’s more about the obedience of the slave for the pleasure of serving the Dom.

From the outside, neither look any different, but in examining the dynamics from the inside they’re vastly different.

[Deleted Member]

  44 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

but what does either of those *actually* mean?

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I apologize for my error, and unfortunately can't edit. I meant to say "A submissive is distinctly different from a slave."

As to the difference, do some research. I would start with the classic book, "Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns" by Phillip Miller and Molly Devon.

[Ge****]

So there are two sides of the slash… left is where things like Dominant, Master, Owner, Daddy, Mommy, etc. live. Right side is where you are asking about, though so let’s explore a bit.

First off… there are a lot of definitions out there, and a lot of words. You asked about slave vs. submissive, but there are also:
Bottom
Submissive
Slave
Property
Little (girl/boy)
Pet

So for most BDSM definitions I have seen, there is a bit of a spectrum of duration between those first three….

This is about the Power Exchange really… someone on the right side of the slash willingly cedes some level of Power over themselves to someone on the left side of the slash. Let’s look at the three most common scenarios:

1. Bottom. This is a very short, very discrete duration. You’re at a play party, you find someone you want to do a scene with. Whether that scene is impact play, rope, needles, fire cupping, whatever…. You negotiate the scene with them. Let’s assume it’s an impact scene. You go through their toys with them, agree on which ones you like, where you are comfortable with them touching you, what aftercare you need, what aftercare THEY expect, safe words, whatever. You go play, have a great scene. During the scene, from the negotiations through the aftercare, you are their bottom. Nobody else should interfere with you… and let’s say, for example, you agree they can spank and grope your a**. Next week, you see them at a munch, or even at the play space. They do NOT have a right to come up and grope your a** just because they did for this. That PE was for the scene alone. Once the scene is over, the exchange of power is also.

2. Submissive. A lot longer term. Can be for a week, a month, a year, or indefinitely (or anywhere in between!). You sit down and decide what your hard and soft limits are, appropriate rules, punishments, safe words, protocols, and duration. Let’s say you decide on a 6 month “contract” (even if it’s all verbal). 6 months later, you sit down, renegotiate, and continue another 6 months. During that year, you agree to be their submissive in some regard. It may be bedroom only. It may be just on weekends. It may be just when you’re together. Perhaps you need help staying focused with school or work, or staying on top of your diet and exercise, and agree to let them set rules and punishments. Whatever works for YOU. But outside of those limits… you are still your own person. And even within your limits, you reserve the right to say “no” via a safe word. In short.. there are limits still.

3. Slave. This is what’s often referred to as a “Total Power Exchange. Here… you no longer have safe words (though I always would suggest them for play scenes just to make sure you don’t get HARMED. Just because you trust them, they can’t feel what you do. If you’re suspended and your hands go numb, they only know if you tell them. Don’t be stupid of course… but this is an example). You don’t have limits, or very very few.. THEY get to decide those for the most part. This requires an EXTREME amount of trust. In both directions. The Master/Owner must know their slave VERY well for this to be successful at this level of PE…

But no matter how much power you cede to another human being… know this: you ALWAYS reserve the right to just walk away. Remove your collar, and end the dynamic. Consent RULES in kink. Whether you subscribe to SSC, or RACK, consent matters. Greatly. Any left side type that suggests otherwise is a MAJOR red flag.

This isn’t definitive. I can think of at least 1 valid example that defies what I put here. But in non-Leather BDSM, this is what I generally see as the accepted meanings of the distinction.

[Deleted Member]

  34 minutes ago, tex2276 said:

A master is a type of dom, a slave is a type of sub

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Like I said earlier to someone else, do some research.
Let's add to the discussion...
If a Master orders his slave to flog him, is he still the Master or has he become the slave?

[Deleted Member]

THIS SITE IS FULL OF NEWBIES AND AMATEURS. YOU GUYS SHOULD LEARN MORE ABOUT BDSM AND THINK TWICE BEFORE SPEAKING.

[Sk****]

  5 minutes ago, jzarvey said:

Like I said earlier to someone else, do some research.
Let's add to the discussion...
If a Master orders his slave to flog him, is he still the Master or has he become the slave?

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Master still has control regardless of how it appears.

[te****]

  5 minutes ago, Jeannot said:

THIS SITE IS FULL OF NEWBIES AND AMATEURS. YOU GUYS SHOULD LEARN MORE ABOUT BDSM AND THINK TWICE BEFORE SPEAKING.

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Thank you

[Deleted Member]

  16 minutes ago, OldWolf91 said:

So there are two sides of the slash… left is where things like Dominant, Master, Owner, Daddy, Mommy, etc. live. Right side is where you are asking about, though so let’s explore a bit.

First off… there are a lot of definitions out there, and a lot of words. You asked about slave vs. submissive, but there are also:
Bottom
Submissive
Slave
Property
Little (girl/boy)
Pet

So for most BDSM definitions I have seen, there is a bit of a spectrum of duration between those first three….

This is about the Power Exchange really… someone on the right side of the slash willingly cedes some level of Power over themselves to someone on the left side of the slash. Let’s look at the three most common scenarios:

1. Bottom. This is a very short, very discrete duration. You’re at a play party, you find someone you want to do a scene with. Whether that scene is impact play, rope, needles, fire cupping, whatever…. You negotiate the scene with them. Let’s assume it’s an impact scene. You go through their toys with them, agree on which ones you like, where you are comfortable with them touching you, what aftercare you need, what aftercare THEY expect, safe words, whatever. You go play, have a great scene. During the scene, from the negotiations through the aftercare, you are their bottom. Nobody else should interfere with you… and let’s say, for example, you agree they can spank and grope your a**. Next week, you see them at a munch, or even at the play space. They do NOT have a right to come up and grope your a** just because they did for this. That PE was for the scene alone. Once the scene is over, the exchange of power is also.

2. Submissive. A lot longer term. Can be for a week, a month, a year, or indefinitely (or anywhere in between!). You sit down and decide what your hard and soft limits are, appropriate rules, punishments, safe words, protocols, and duration. Let’s say you decide on a 6 month “contract” (even if it’s all verbal). 6 months later, you sit down, renegotiate, and continue another 6 months. During that year, you agree to be their submissive in some regard. It may be bedroom only. It may be just on weekends. It may be just when you’re together. Perhaps you need help staying focused with school or work, or staying on top of your diet and exercise, and agree to let them set rules and punishments. Whatever works for YOU. But outside of those limits… you are still your own person. And even within your limits, you reserve the right to say “no” via a safe word. In short.. there are limits still.

3. Slave. This is what’s often referred to as a “Total Power Exchange. Here… you no longer have safe words (though I always would suggest them for play scenes just to make sure you don’t get HARMED. Just because you trust them, they can’t feel what you do. If you’re suspended and your hands go numb, they only know if you tell them. Don’t be stupid of course… but this is an example). You don’t have limits, or very very few.. THEY get to decide those for the most part. This requires an EXTREME amount of trust. In both directions. The Master/Owner must know their slave VERY well for this to be successful at this level of PE…

But no matter how much power you cede to another human being… know this: you ALWAYS reserve the right to just walk away. Remove your collar, and end the dynamic. Consent RULES in kink. Whether you subscribe to SSC, or RACK, consent matters. Greatly. Any left side type that suggests otherwise is a MAJOR red flag.

This isn’t definitive. I can think of at least 1 valid example that defies what I put here. But in non-Leather BDSM, this is what I generally see as the accepted meanings of the distinction.

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Getting close....
I know of slaves who have safewords and submissives who have given up their right to safewords.

[Deleted Member]

  13 minutes ago, Jeannot said:

THIS SITE IS FULL OF NEWBIES AND AMATEURS. YOU GUYS SHOULD LEARN MORE ABOUT BDSM AND THINK TWICE BEFORE SPEAKING.

Expand  

I have no problem with newbies, or anyone for that matter, asking questions. It is how people learn. But, part of learning is figuring out how to find information and evaluate the sources of the information.
If you're not willing to put in that effort, you could be putting yourself or someone else in danger of being harmed permanently.

[ey****]

  40 minutes ago, jzarvey said:

As to the difference, do some research. I would start with the classic book, "Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns" by Phillip Miller and Molly Devon.

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but this thread is about individuals understandings - not which books to read.

I have done sufficient research.

 

[Ge****]

  21 minutes ago, jzarvey said:

Like I said earlier to someone else, do some research.
Let's add to the discussion...
If a Master orders his slave to flog him, is he still the Master or has he become the slave?

Expand  

Still the Master, but now, temporarily, a bottom. I know any number of Dominant masochists. I scened with one a few weeks ago. She is not at ALL a submissive but IS a masochist and needed the release, so even though she’s not even into guys, we know each other so agreed on a scene. Her submissive gave her aftercare. But she was MY bottom for about 30 minutes. She was still a Domme though.

[Ge****]

  28 minutes ago, jzarvey said:

Getting close....
I know of slaves who have safewords and submissives who have given up their right to safewords.

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Absolutely. There isn’t one twu way. I know a Leather slave who is anything BUT submissive. Respectful… most of the time. I’ve also watched her tell her Master, whom she affectionately calls “god” to go fuck himself. And he pretty much ALWAYS uses “Please” when he gives her a directive.

Every dynamic is unique and they are as varied as people. But as a working definition? It’s at least that. Perfect? No. But “close” and helps to get to the sense of it I think.

[Ge****]

  32 minutes ago, jzarvey said:

Getting close....
I know of slaves who have safewords and submissives who have given up their right to safewords.

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If you want to play “Someone is wrong on the interwebz, I must correct them” you’ll likely find fodder for that approach in nearly EVERY working definition. And others will do the same for yours. But it was a good question worth more than a trite soundbite-style answer. I didn’t even TOUCH Leather. or Goran lore. Or DD/lg, or…. But it’s a start, and it helps convey the sense of it.

[Deleted Member]

  27 minutes ago, OldWolf91 said:

Still the Master, but now, temporarily, a bottom. I know any number of Dominant masochists. I scened with one a few weeks ago. She is not at ALL a submissive but IS a masochist and needed the release, so even though she’s not even into guys, we know each other so agreed on a scene. Her submissive gave her aftercare. But she was MY bottom for about 30 minutes. She was still a Domme though.

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👍

[Deleted Member]

  34 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

but this thread is about individuals understandings - not which books to read.

I have done sufficient research.

 

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So newbies should just take your word for it?
How did you learn?
Shouldn't you share your source material with those seeking knowledge so they can read it for themselves?

[Deleted Member]

jzarvey; I have no problem with newbies, or anyone for that matter, asking questions. It is how people learn. But, part of learning is figuring out how to find information and evaluate the sources of the information.
If you're not willing to put in that effort, you could be putting yourself or someone else in danger of being harmed permanently.

Newbies, amateurs and people who are learning shouldn't have opinions on matters they know nothing about.

[Deleted Member]

Newbies, amateurs and people learning shouldn't be having opinions on matters they know nothing about nor should they be doing things they don't understand, that's how people get hurt.
They should be doing research and learning before doing anything.

[Deleted Member]

  6 minutes ago, Jeannot said:

Newbies, amateurs and people learning shouldn't be having opinions on matters they know nothing about nor should they be doing things they don't understand, that's how people get hurt.
They should be doing research and learning before doing anything.

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I agree they should be doing some learning before engaging in play activities, but having an opinion is not dangerous. What is dangerous is holding to an opinion in the face of facts.

Wow, I thought I had an old school mentality about education in kink. I've been doing this for 30 years and you're comments made me realize why people are skipping the education aspect. Why bother when they are faced with attitudes like yours.