The Mystery of the First Message

[ey****]

2 hours ago, Charlie218 said:

There are many experiment done with woman making a male profile on dating apps; they immediately got how frustrating it is, you can do it yourself too if you want to acknowledge it.

there are also many experiments done with women making a male profile and having to repeatedly apologise to women who wanted to meet that they were merely an experiment.  so it's important not to cherry pick

but that's also an issue, the amount of "women" profiles which are guys doing their own experiments which totally shits in the pool 

[do****]

1 hour ago, eyemblacksheep said:

there are also many experiments done with women making a male profile and having to repeatedly apologise to women who wanted to meet that they were merely an experiment.  so it's important not to cherry pick

but that's also an issue, the amount of "women" profiles which are guys doing their own experiments which totally shits in the pool 

Lots of shit in the pool

[ey****]

I'm getting side-tracked a bit here - but a lot of the experiments (be it man posing as woman or woman posing as man - in either case to see how the other has it dating) never seem fully committed.

Like I just did some searches and one that goes around of a woman pretending to be a man - she was literally sending hey / how are you - messages, the type of thing a lot of women complain about receiving, rather than sending the types of first messages she would like to receive

while another search has a woman pose as a man because she wanted to use that approach to find out what would help her find a partner and so emersed a bit and used her findings to reflect in her own profile.  

Under the same search was a story of a man who posed as a woman and had to quit the dating site after 2 hours cos he couldn't hack the messages he got.    Pft. Amateurs.

 

If someone really wanted perspective - it's very difficult as I'd say it needs 6 weeks to 3 months.   Only abandoned sooner if there's a risk to the cover being blown.

I mean, impersonation is against most sites policies.

For those posing as women.  They need a mixed data set.  So, men expect women to reply to their messages.  So, they need to reply.  When they really can't hack the volumes or banality, tough shit.  Also within this, they obviously need to tell some of the guys messaging them that they're not interested.  But, like, swap a few messages first and when it's like "fucks sake, I really can't take another round of "how are you", "how was your day", "what you doing"" to reply to say not interested and see how many get pushy or angry at this.

But also, make the first move a couple of times and then, after making the first move, telling the person sorry they're not actually that interested and wait for a swipe of being accused of leading on.

for those posing as men.  obviously we know the hey, hi, how are you is not how women like to be contacted - so really this only works with a profile and method of contact that women would like to see.  Contacting people is obviously  a little difficult because it really is leading people on 

The other kinda thing a bit - men tend to assume things are easy for women (ha!) but I've never on any of my years on forums like this never seen a lady ever say "it's easy for men" 

I guess, perhaps, since men often complain about the social value thingy-me-jig maybe there'd be more value in a man posing as another man higher up the deemed social scale.  See how far he gets flashing cash and how that really fails to attract what he suspects.

[do****]

2 hours ago, eyemblacksheep said:

I'm getting side-tracked a bit here - but a lot of the experiments (be it man posing as woman or woman posing as man - in either case to see how the other has it dating) never seem fully committed.

Like I just did some searches and one that goes around of a woman pretending to be a man - she was literally sending hey / how are you - messages, the type of thing a lot of women complain about receiving, rather than sending the types of first messages she would like to receive

while another search has a woman pose as a man because she wanted to use that approach to find out what would help her find a partner and so emersed a bit and used her findings to reflect in her own profile.  

Under the same search was a story of a man who posed as a woman and had to quit the dating site after 2 hours cos he couldn't hack the messages he got.    Pft. Amateurs.

 

If someone really wanted perspective - it's very difficult as I'd say it needs 6 weeks to 3 months.   Only abandoned sooner if there's a risk to the cover being blown.

I mean, impersonation is against most sites policies.

For those posing as women.  They need a mixed data set.  So, men expect women to reply to their messages.  So, they need to reply.  When they really can't hack the volumes or banality, tough shit.  Also within this, they obviously need to tell some of the guys messaging them that they're not interested.  But, like, swap a few messages first and when it's like "fucks sake, I really can't take another round of "how are you", "how was your day", "what you doing"" to reply to say not interested and see how many get pushy or angry at this.

But also, make the first move a couple of times and then, after making the first move, telling the person sorry they're not actually that interested and wait for a swipe of being accused of leading on.

for those posing as men.  obviously we know the hey, hi, how are you is not how women like to be contacted - so really this only works with a profile and method of contact that women would like to see.  Contacting people is obviously  a little difficult because it really is leading people on 

The other kinda thing a bit - men tend to assume things are easy for women (ha!) but I've never on any of my years on forums like this never seen a lady ever say "it's easy for men" 

I guess, perhaps, since men often complain about the social value thingy-me-jig maybe there'd be more value in a man posing as another man higher up the deemed social scale.  See how far he gets flashing cash and how that really fails to attract what he suspects.

Ok. Timeout. We might need a whole new thread for this. Impersonating for the sake of experimentation is a thing? I've been gone too long. So the men playing in my inbox as women are not just bored, this is a thing, I'm a variable in an experiment. Oh this just changes everything. I might owe apologies now

[CopperKnob]

8 hours ago, Charlie218 said:

There is a lot to say about mystery of first message, especially from man side I’d say.
I beg you to read until the end…

Us man, generically speaking, text way more often that woman do, so there is a numeric factor of higher chances, of us taking zero answers at all or dead silence after the second( if we are lucky to get there) message.

Insecurity is not a burden or a sin to have;
for us male it’s just something normal like for anyone else that is tent to be seen by woman, generally speaking, as a red flag, while on the other hand an insecure woman is not big issue for us, or no issue at all.

I’ve never sent a dick pic or anything as such in my life, unless I was asked to of course , and I’ll never do that without consent, but on the other hand I received most of the time a very cold, ghostly, detached or no answer at all answers, and look I’m not the poor unlucky, victim here, I could speak for most man…
You (woman) tell us to be just ourself, to be honest and fair, but in reality you don’t want that (you wouldn’t want to deal with the “real us” at least when you start a convo I mean, and I’m speaking facts here)
You tell us to be funny here in chat, to make you laugh, to be original, but I’ve seen most of your approaches here on apps and is very basic, the same basic intros that you wouldn’t want to receive or that you would discard with no hesitation.
There are many experiment done with woman making a male profile on dating apps; they immediately got how frustrating it is, you can do it yourself too if you want to acknowledge it.

I’ve seen and known myself, including my own partner, woman complaining about the quantity of messages in the inbox, that they receive daily.
Agreed that most of them are shitty ones, agreed that can be annoying, but at least you have that.
At least you can feel desired and wanted, even if the man don’t appeal you, at least you don’t feel completely ignored, at least if you want you could fuck over your solitude, you could even spoon with that person even if for a little while…
The amount of solitude that man can experiment is mostly inconceivable by most of woman


Said all that I very despise bad attitudes from our side, I really do, It’s very bad and nonsense to send dick pics not asked:
but I also need to make clear some other points that are so often unseen and not dealt with the right prospective and importance.

In conclusion the problem I see here and not only here btw, is a profound communication issue between man and woman;
at the same time I see a luck of awareness of how man and woman works biologically speaking, plus a non awareness of how man and woman are treated by dating apps..

From my perspective, and that's really the whole OP given the amount of pro nouns used.
.
Yes, I do want people to be "real," be themselves if they choose to message me. Your fact is not a fact but a blanket statement alluding to and idea that all women want the same thing. I note, by the way that whilst you speak of men "generically" you fail to do the same for women.
.
My profile isn't "basic" it may not detail kinks etc but thought has gone into what has been written. The vast majority of people would do well to actually read it before hitting the message button.
.
Shitty messages do not make me feel "desired" or "wanted". On the contrary. It makes me feel dead inside. What was that about solitude? I'd much rather be ignored than get the drivel I get. Why on earth would I want to spoon someone I don't want to enter a conversation with? That's an odd take.

[CopperKnob]

3 hours ago, doubletrouble129 said:

Ok. Timeout. We might need a whole new thread for this. Impersonating for the sake of experimentation is a thing? I've been gone too long. So the men playing in my inbox as women are not just bored, this is a thing, I'm a variable in an experiment. Oh this just changes everything. I might owe apologies now

You've clearly never had a "female" presenting profile message you letting know that either, their "ex Dom" or "current Dom" is quite the catch and ask you of you'd like them to act as a "match maker" 😂😂

[4R****]

3 minutes ago, CopperKnob said:

You've clearly never had a "female" presenting profile message you letting know that either, their "ex Dom" or "current Dom" is quite the catch and ask you of you'd like them to act as a "match maker" 😂😂

PMSL! 

[do****]

4 minutes ago, CopperKnob said:

You've clearly never had a "female" presenting profile message you letting know that either, their "ex Dom" or "current Dom" is quite the catch and ask you of you'd like them to act as a "match maker" 😂😂

Oh hell no 😂🤣. I get the ones that give themselves away as a man by how they articulate themselves. Then when I call them out on it they delete their profiles, someone else reports them, or FET bans them for not verifying

[gl****]

1 minute ago, CopperKnob said:

You've clearly never had a "female" presenting profile message you letting know that either, their "ex Dom" or "current Dom" is quite the catch and ask you of you'd like them to act as a "match maker" 😂😂

Really?

There are obviously guys out there who are even more warped than I thought if they think that it is possible to get away with doing that.

 

Karma ALWAYS bites you in the ass - courtesy and manners cost nothing but are truly priceless - be polite and "nice" (and HONEST) at the start and maybe, just maybe you will get what you are looking for - if not, it probably wasn't what you were looking for in the first place.

 

Damn - why are folk so twisted - they always screw it up for everyone else 

[ey****]

Just now, glasgow898 said:

There are obviously guys out there who are even more warped than I thought if they think that it is possible to get away with doing that.

yeah, two common approaches

1) posing as a woman looking "tasked with finding another sub for her Dom" (when it's often a guy with no sub)
2) couples/unicorn hunters - where you think you're speaking to a couple, or the female of the couple, and then suddenly if it's time to meet the woman in the couple will been unable to make it, and try to coax to still see one-on-one with the guy

[CopperKnob]

9 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

yeah, two common approaches

1) posing as a woman looking "tasked with finding another sub for her Dom" (when it's often a guy with no sub)
2) couples/unicorn hunters - where you think you're speaking to a couple, or the female of the couple, and then suddenly if it's time to meet the woman in the couple will been unable to make it, and try to coax to still see one-on-one with the guy

Yeah or the occassional guy who'll claim to be poly, have pics of the female sub. The female sub will have their own profile but, wouldn't you know it, the two profiles are near on identical in terms of content, the format and way language is used. In other words, one dude sitting in his pants running both profiles 🤦‍♀️😂

[CopperKnob]

12 minutes ago, 4RCH said:

PMSL! 

.
Not.
Even.
Funny.

[do****]

20 minutes ago, glasgow898 said:

Really?

There are obviously guys out there who are even more warped than I thought if they think that it is possible to get away with doing that.

 

Karma ALWAYS bites you in the ass - courtesy and manners cost nothing but are truly priceless - be polite and "nice" (and HONEST) at the start and maybe, just maybe you will get what you are looking for - if not, it probably wasn't what you were looking for in the first place.

 

Damn - why are folk so twisted - they always screw it up for everyone else 

You are correct. Honesty is the best policy. I've made my first gay friend on here though honesty. He was honest in his approach. I was honest in my rejection. Everything was respectable. We have hung out as homeboys since then. Moral of the story, honesty and respect goes a long way and can lead to meaningful nonsexual relationships

[ge****]

29 minutes ago, glasgow898 said:

Really?

There are obviously guys out there who are even more warped than I thought if they think that it is possible to get away with doing that.

 

Karma ALWAYS bites you in the ass - courtesy and manners cost nothing but are truly priceless - be polite and "nice" (and HONEST) at the start and maybe, just maybe you will get what you are looking for - if not, it probably wasn't what you were looking for in the first place.

 

Damn - why are folk so twisted - they always screw it up for everyone else 

Always makes me smile to think that the ones they "get lucky" with will probably be other guys doing exactly the same - and they'll both be sat at home furiously wanking thinking they're talking to someone hot when in fact it's actually Kevin from Kettering sat in the cab of his lorry in a layby on the A478 in jogging bottoms and a grease stained vest!! 🤣😂

[Ch****]

2 hours ago, CopperKnob said:

From my perspective, and that's really the whole OP given the amount of pro nouns used.
.
Yes, I do want people to be "real," be themselves if they choose to message me. Your fact is not a fact but a blanket statement alluding to and idea that all women want the same thing. I note, by the way that whilst you speak of men "generically" you fail to do the same for women.
.
My profile isn't "basic" it may not detail kinks etc but thought has gone into what has been written. The vast majority of people would do well to actually read it before hitting the message button.
.
Shitty messages do not make me feel "desired" or "wanted". On the contrary. It makes me feel dead inside. What was that about solitude? I'd much rather be ignored than get the drivel I get. Why on earth would I want to spoon someone I don't want to enter a conversation with? That's an odd take.

First of all I want to say and repeat that I’m generalizing here off course, I said that before.

Answering your statements here I go:
.
You don’t want us to be real, nobody would want that..
Any man being “real” would say or think: this girl look good I’d lie with her right away…
If we say so you all would run away and with all the rights of this world off course..
Furthermore I never generalized what woman wants, but how mostly man are dealt with in dating apps..

The elaborate and sophisticated bio go in second or third maybe grade of importance, bdsm is an exception, here is very important and everyone should do that accurately..
I’m talking more dating apps like tinder or Cupid that kind of things..

The real person btw come out with a lot of time getting to know each other, relating to each other..
.
I never said your profile is “basic” and I agree, as I already said, that people should read bio especially when bdsm is involved
.
Being ignored is the worst thing a human can experiment..
Recent born baby don’t die cause is treated bad, but cause is ignored (unlikely this experiment is real and has been conducted ).
I’m saying personally, I’d like 100 times more being objectified or being fetishized than being ignored.
So you don’t want to be ignored, nobody would want that.
The spooning things was just to say that woman has the possibility, not saying she would accept to spoon or to have sex lowering her standards, but at least you can have that, it’s not ideal but it’s something.

If a woman want a guy tomorrow to go to her house cause she feel into sex or bdsm she could get that in few hours chatting..
I could hardly say this could happen to any man..
A normal man In a normal situation have a very hard time to get laid.

I’m talking facts here, and I’m not against you or any woman at all, and not even saying man are poor victims of the society: I’m just acknowledging, I’ve done my research and I’ve been living things too.
I’m in an open relationship so something I can say I’ve been seen and leaving to rein*** my statements.

We are different, or biology is different, man instinctively want to join to as many woman he can for the sake of the species, and woman select the best mate for the sake and continuation of the species, and this is translated in the flirting process subconsciously…

There would be much more to say and would be beautiful debate more on human dynamics,I personally love it though I’m a very lazy typer ..

[CopperKnob]

1 minute ago, gemini_man said:

Always makes me smile to think that the ones they "get lucky" with will probably be other guys doing exactly the same - and they'll both be sat at home furiously wanking thinking they're talking to someone hot when in fact it's actually Kevin from Kettering sat in the cab of his lorry in a layby on the A478 in jogging bottoms and a grease stained vest!! 🤣😂

Alright Kev, how you doing? What's the traffic like on the A478 this evening, straight run through?

[CopperKnob]

4 minutes ago, Charlie218 said:

First of all I want to say and repeat that I’m generalizing here off course, I said that before.

Answering your statements here I go:
.
You don’t want us to be real, nobody would want that..
Any man being “real” would say or think: this girl look good I’d lie with her right away…
If we say so you all would run away and with all the rights of this world off course..
Furthermore I never generalized what woman wants, but how mostly man are dealt with in dating apps..

The elaborate and sophisticated bio go in second or third maybe grade of importance, bdsm is an exception, here is very important and everyone should do that accurately..
I’m talking more dating apps like tinder or Cupid that kind of things..

The real person btw come out with a lot of time getting to know each other, relating to each other..
.
I never said your profile is “basic” and I agree, as I already said, that people should read bio especially when bdsm is involved
.
Being ignored is the worst thing a human can experiment..
Recent born baby don’t die cause is treated bad, but cause is ignored (unlikely this experiment is real and has been conducted ).
I’m saying personally, I’d like 100 times more being objectified or being fetishized than being ignored.
So you don’t want to be ignored, nobody would want that.
The spooning things was just to say that woman has the possibility, not saying she would accept to spoon or to have sex lowering her standards, but at least you can have that, it’s not ideal but it’s something.

If a woman want a guy tomorrow to go to her house cause she feel into sex or bdsm she could get that in few hours chatting..
I could hardly say this could happen to any man..
A normal man In a normal situation have a very hard time to get laid.

I’m talking facts here, and I’m not against you or any woman at all, and not even saying man are poor victims of the society: I’m just acknowledging, I’ve done my research and I’ve been living things too.
I’m in an open relationship so something I can say I’ve been seen and leaving to rein*** my statements.

We are different, or biology is different, man instinctively want to join to as many woman he can for the sake of the species, and woman select the best mate for the sake and continuation of the species, and this is translated in the flirting process subconsciously…

There would be much more to say and would be beautiful debate more on human dynamics,I personally love it though I’m a very lazy typer ..

OMFG!

[do****]

5 minutes ago, Charlie218 said:

First of all I want to say and repeat that I’m generalizing here off course, I said that before.

Answering your statements here I go:
.
You don’t want us to be real, nobody would want that..
Any man being “real” would say or think: this girl look good I’d lie with her right away…
If we say so you all would run away and with all the rights of this world off course..
Furthermore I never generalized what woman wants, but how mostly man are dealt with in dating apps..

The elaborate and sophisticated bio go in second or third maybe grade of importance, bdsm is an exception, here is very important and everyone should do that accurately..
I’m talking more dating apps like tinder or Cupid that kind of things..

The real person btw come out with a lot of time getting to know each other, relating to each other..
.
I never said your profile is “basic” and I agree, as I already said, that people should read bio especially when bdsm is involved
.
Being ignored is the worst thing a human can experiment..
Recent born baby don’t die cause is treated bad, but cause is ignored (unlikely this experiment is real and has been conducted ).
I’m saying personally, I’d like 100 times more being objectified or being fetishized than being ignored.
So you don’t want to be ignored, nobody would want that.
The spooning things was just to say that woman has the possibility, not saying she would accept to spoon or to have sex lowering her standards, but at least you can have that, it’s not ideal but it’s something.

If a woman want a guy tomorrow to go to her house cause she feel into sex or bdsm she could get that in few hours chatting..
I could hardly say this could happen to any man..
A normal man In a normal situation have a very hard time to get laid.

I’m talking facts here, and I’m not against you or any woman at all, and not even saying man are poor victims of the society: I’m just acknowledging, I’ve done my research and I’ve been living things too.
I’m in an open relationship so something I can say I’ve been seen and leaving to rein*** my statements.

We are different, or biology is different, man instinctively want to join to as many woman he can for the sake of the species, and woman select the best mate for the sake and continuation of the species, and this is translated in the flirting process subconsciously…

There would be much more to say and would be beautiful debate more on human dynamics,I personally love it though I’m a very lazy typer ..

I hear and understand what you are saying. My takeaway though now is that I'm not "normal". I have received offers of sex after a few hours of chatting. Some I took up on, others I did not. But because this is happening, I'm not "normal". Just inquiring

[ge****]

11 minutes ago, CopperKnob said:

Alright Kev, how you doing? What's the traffic like on the A478 this evening, straight run through?

I tell you what Trev it was a nightmare and why I pulled into this lay-by, though it has it's advantages it's full of other trucks with steamed up windows - Baz, Tez, Del and Alby are all here - we're going to have a lezzo gang bang later

[CopperKnob]

3 minutes ago, gemini_man said:

I tell you what Trev it was a nightmare and why I pulled into this lay-by, though it has it's advantages it's full of other trucks with steamed up windows - Baz, Tez, Del and Alby are all here - we're going to have a lezzo gang bang later

Ah, I'll send Rodders over right away to join in the fun
.
Me, it's me from my fake femme profile, I'll be over in a jiffy

[ge****]

Just now, CopperKnob said:

Ah, I'll send Rodders over right away to join in the fun
.
Me, it's me from my fake femme profile, I'll be over in a jiffy

Nah no need for a Jiffy we're all going bareback 🤣😂

[CopperKnob]

7 minutes ago, gemini_man said:

Nah no need for a Jiffy we're all going bareback 🤣😂

Now then, don't you dare tell me you've a breeding kink to boot!

[ge****]

32 minutes ago, Charlie218 said:

First of all I want to say and repeat that I’m generalizing here off course, I said that before.

Answering your statements here I go:
.
You don’t want us to be real, nobody would want that..
Any man being “real” would say or think: this girl look good I’d lie with her right away…
If we say so you all would run away and with all the rights of this world off course..
Furthermore I never generalized what woman wants, but how mostly man are dealt with in dating apps..

The elaborate and sophisticated bio go in second or third maybe grade of importance, bdsm is an exception, here is very important and everyone should do that accurately..
I’m talking more dating apps like tinder or Cupid that kind of things..

The real person btw come out with a lot of time getting to know each other, relating to each other..
.
I never said your profile is “basic” and I agree, as I already said, that people should read bio especially when bdsm is involved
.
Being ignored is the worst thing a human can experiment..
Recent born baby don’t die cause is treated bad, but cause is ignored (unlikely this experiment is real and has been conducted ).
I’m saying personally, I’d like 100 times more being objectified or being fetishized than being ignored.
So you don’t want to be ignored, nobody would want that.
The spooning things was just to say that woman has the possibility, not saying she would accept to spoon or to have sex lowering her standards, but at least you can have that, it’s not ideal but it’s something.

If a woman want a guy tomorrow to go to her house cause she feel into sex or bdsm she could get that in few hours chatting..
I could hardly say this could happen to any man..
A normal man In a normal situation have a very hard time to get laid.

I’m talking facts here, and I’m not against you or any woman at all, and not even saying man are poor victims of the society: I’m just acknowledging, I’ve done my research and I’ve been living things too.
I’m in an open relationship so something I can say I’ve been seen and leaving to rein*** my statements.

We are different, or biology is different, man instinctively want to join to as many woman he can for the sake of the species, and woman select the best mate for the sake and continuation of the species, and this is translated in the flirting process subconsciously…

There would be much more to say and would be beautiful debate more on human dynamics,I personally love it though I’m a very lazy typer ..

The thing is, and in summary, you're effectively trying to draw the "men have it harder than women on sites like this" comparison and that's a complete fallacy - no category of user has it easier or harder, they all have their own different problems in one respect or another.
.
Yes a woman could probably get a man within a very short space of time on a site like this - but would then want that? In the majority of cases the answer will be "no" and certainly not just "any" man.
.
Can I suggest you go back and read my earlier post in response to you? As I risk repeating myself with this one.
.
For the overwhelming majority of men, they will struggle to get responses or interest, but not because of any number imbalance, or because of women having too high expectations, or any of the other things often cited - but because they simply haven't worked out how to approach sites like this - they send overly sexual messages without encouragement, or have the wrong expectations, attitude or approach, don't make an effort with their profiles and more besides.
.
Whereas there are men who do "get" how sites like this work, who do make all the right effort, who accept they won't get a reply to every message they send, who don't get butt hurt when they are rejected, who find an approach to the site that works for them etc - and those men are perfectly happy, and do come across to women in the right way, and as a result do get responses to their messages and indeed get to meet people, or accept that it may not happen.
.
All the tools are there for every man to use and make the most of the site - trouble is most don't use them, and seek to blame others for their own failure to do so

[ge****]

9 minutes ago, CopperKnob said:

Now then, don't you dare tell me you've a breeding kink to boot!

Boots? Nah Rodders, no boots tonight just my fluffy mule slippers 😂🤣

[CopperKnob]

20 minutes ago, gemini_man said:

Boots? Nah Rodders, no boots tonight just my fluffy mule slippers 😂🤣

Ah Kev, I love a good flounce I do, enjoy yourself kid