The Mystery of the First Message

[Kruntz]

10 minutes ago, YorkshireBiker said:

I’m generalising again but 20 and 35 are drastically different, most 20 year olds are probably child free, I doubt that still applies by 30-35, and what a 20 years old is looking for ,is again probably very different to someone in their 30’s. How can someone expect to offer something that will appeal to both ends of this spectrum.
 

How high are your expectations?

Eh physical attractiveness and *** applies to both. I'm going on a date with a 22 year old in a couple days but my last date was with a 31 year old, etc. Ideally I would date younger but I don't exclude women slightly older than me if they fit my reqs. 

There's definitely a solid chunk of ~30 women reaching the end of their fertility window also looking for a guy(at least I have seen a couple other dating sites).

I will say all the women I date come from a more educated background though which fits since it's the culture I grew up in.

Edited May 16, 2023 by Kruntz

[do****]

9 minutes ago, CopperKnob said:

Nope, that's not it.
Kruntz has a tendency to voice their views on the dating woes of men which are sometimes quite out there regardless as to whether they track or not.
This is despite numerous people telling them that they're barking up the wrong tree.
The making of a fake profile to "prove a point" is one which crops up from time to time with this individual and a couple of others.
Fet are relatively quick to act on reports from members re potentially dodgy profiles and will either block them til the user can verify themselves or will ban them
As long as you have your wits about you and trust your gut instinct this is, in the main, a safe place

This just struck a nerve because I have caught men pretending wasting my time in my inbox. To think this is somebody's "fake" experiment grinds my gears. I have an experiment if they have that much time to waste

[CopperKnob]

11 minutes ago, Charlie218 said:

In response to your message:

I agree with the expectation things on sites like this”, but if this site exists is also and mainly to interact with people, so why would I or anyone give up on interacting on an app which purpose is to ultimately do that?
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I’d personally rather being a dispenser then ignored, but off course it comes with personal taste, plus I was talking more about a range of possibilities that differs from man to woman.
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Sorry I didn’t really get this one.
A dating or kinky app like this is made” theoretically to meet people” how can you have interaction with people previously if you only met them on the app? I don’t get it..
If you meet a kink a outside the app you wouldn’t exchange the app profile to interact, you’ll exchange number or Telegram, right?
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Agree, blind message are no sense, and dick pics make me sick.
For example forum for me wouldn’t work to meet people live, that ultimately is my goal. Simply cause where I live we don’t haveda big amount of people in the app.
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On the last point I agree with you, but this come to the point that I was mentioning before.
Even having the best strategy, you mentioned expectation, attitude, approach, profile and pics, takes lot of research and planning, even though there are no answer guaranteed at all.

So I was underlining that there are unquestionable, undeniable differences between man and woman, especially in apps like this, that we also take lot of shit on here, different shit from what woman takes perhaps.
I know these topics are hard to be heard and it’s a delicate field to touch, but I’m ready even if I’ll be misunderstood or hated..

Doesn’t mean I’m a chauvinist or patriarch or shit like this, I even have a girlfriend that is an active feminists and she is on this app too btw.

I try to report as best as I can things that happens and are not spoken enough from my point of view.

Man issues deserve the same visibility and respect of woman issues..

So, some Fet members will have been to an munch or kink event and interacted IRL to a degree, that doesn't mean that I, or they, want to share contact details of other social media platforms
Kik - deletes messages after a period of time, I like to be able to return to older messages
Snap and WhatsApp link to other social media sites such as FB which most people will use to connect to family, friends, workmates and therefore your vanilla exterior
Fet provides an opportunity to interact with others in a way that is safe/r given that messages are stored and personal info isn't shared unwittingly if the user isn't tech savvy. I also know that I can report a user here and it'll be acted upon appropriately. Case in point, a member was ultimately banned from Fet following my report (and I'm sure those from others at the time) Fet make enquiries and took appropriate action to safeguard the wider membership. The aforementioned sites won't do that

[CopperKnob]

5 minutes ago, gemini_man said:

Sorry but that's utter balderdash - firstly there is no "attractiveness threshold" because attraction is entirely subjective and down to an individual.
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Secondly if what you say is true there would be a heck of a lot of single men about.
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Thirdly I'm an almost 58 year old man who is way over the hill, and am very much average to below average in most respects (apart from my bum which though I say so myself is incredibly attractive) - yet since joining sites like this in my early 50s, far from being ignored, I've interacted with many women, and not all of them just to chat to.
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It comes down to being respectful and considerate, finding an approach to sites like these that works for you the individual, having the right attitude and expectations and being genuinely you - and nothing to do with chiselled looks, gym fit bodies, big bank balance and a sports car in the slightest.
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Sure there are some (very shallow in my opinion) women who will look for those latter things, but to make a generalisation of it is insulting to the many genuinely nice women who don't look for that.
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As men it's within our own hands to make sites like this work for us - sadly many don't see that and look for reasons to blame for their lack of success.
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P.S. anyone else getting a funny sense of deja vu? 🤔😂

Nope not me 😂

[do****]

I'm done with this thread. Ignorance effects my mental health. I appreciate all the educated responses. To the ignorance, kick big rocks with no shoes or socks 💜

[CopperKnob]

7 minutes ago, Kruntz said:

Eh physical attractiveness and *** applies to both. I'm going on a date with a 22 year old in a couple days but my last date was with a 31 year old, etc. Ideally I would date younger but I don't exclude women slightly older than me if they fit my reqs. 

There's definitely a solid chunk of ~30 women reaching the end of their fertility window also looking for a guy(at least I have seen a couple other dating sites).

I will say all the women I date come from a more educated background though which fits since it's the culture I grew up in.

Ya know, as women, if we wanted a child there are numerous options available to us that don't revolve around a penis. Surrogacy, fostering, adoption, freezing our eggs. There isn't a sudden 'rush' to capture a man (despite my post titled "how to trap a Dom") simply because our eggs are running out 😂

[Kruntz]

Just now, CopperKnob said:

Ya know, as women, if we wanted a child there are numerous options available to us that don't revolve around a penis. Surrogacy, fostering, adoption, freezing our eggs. There isn't a sudden 'rush' to capture a man (despite my post titled "how to trap a Dom") simply because our eggs are running out 😂

Most people don't want to sign up to be a single parent, I would say to desire that is insanity. 

[CopperKnob]

Just now, Kruntz said:

Most people don't want to sign up to be a single parent, I would say to desire that is insanity. 

What?

[CopperKnob]

4 minutes ago, Kruntz said:

Most people don't want to sign up to be a single parent, I would say to desire that is insanity. 

I mean, this is a whole other thread as well as a huge generalisation but are you saying that people, regardless of gender can't parent to a "good enough" standard (because that's all that's necessary before agencies step in) alone?
Quite frankly, there are many people who seek to adopt, approach adoption agencies as single people and who go through the relevant training before being approved and a child/ren being placed with them
Christ alive

[ey****]

32 minutes ago, Kruntz said:

My position is that most men who don't get good results don't actually do anything wrong, they just aren't deemed attractive enough.

one thing about seeking partners in general is that, yes, you can *seemingly* do everything right and not get the results you want

that is true.  there's a lot that is important to understand.

but, if you start throwing out it's because you're not attractive, or not this, or not that - this poses two problems - firstly is that it accuses others of being shallow.  The second is that any form of self-negging is never attractive, at least not to the right people.  It won't get results you want and it may actually poison perspective relationships if you spend all the time feeling you're not good enough.

The true is the same in pretty much every social situation.

I mean, sure, like, some people won't find you attractive and won't be interested (which, all guys would also have their levels on.   You know the biggest *** for men going on dates is that the person doesn't look like the picture, or, specifically, is fat) but that's not universally true.

 

And while it is possible to seemingly do everything right and not get the results you want; you also shouldn't kid yourself that everyone-else-is-wrong 

[4R****]

1 hour ago, Kruntz said:

It's not, if you don't reach a certain attractiveness threshold you will be immediately ignored and the threshold is ever higher. 

Actually that's absolute Garbage! I'm no oil-***ting, I'm almost 50, balding, short, and most certainly overweight - but I was approached by and now own an absolute stunner. It's not about looks, believe me, it really isn't!

 

1 hour ago, Kruntz said:

For shits and giggles make two fake dating accounts with photos of an average looking vs a guy at top of the attractiveness hierarchy and observe your experience.

That would be an incredibly shitty thing to do in any form, on any site (let alone this one where it would be against TOS) and I'm appalled at the suggestion. 

[Kruntz]

36 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

one thing about seeking partners in general is that, yes, you can *seemingly* do everything right and not get the results you want

that is true.  there's a lot that is important to understand.

but, if you start throwing out it's because you're not attractive, or not this, or not that - this poses two problems - firstly is that it accuses others of being shallow.  The second is that any form of self-negging is never attractive, at least not to the right people.  It won't get results you want and it may actually poison perspective relationships if you spend all the time feeling you're not good enough.

The true is the same in pretty much every social situation.

I mean, sure, like, some people won't find you attractive and won't be interested (which, all guys would also have their levels on.   You know the biggest *** for men going on dates is that the person doesn't look like the picture, or, specifically, is fat) but that's not universally true.

 

And while it is possible to seemingly do everything right and not get the results you want; you also shouldn't kid yourself that everyone-else-is-wrong 

Why do you bother to engage? You do it to accomplish a specific goal, sex, relationships, kink etc. If you're not getting a result you want you can suggest social change but you also analyze where the failure point is and evaluate if it can be solved or not within your abilities. The first step to solving is analyzing where you fail.

My position is the overwhelming point of failure for most men is initial attraction on the part of the woman and it has almost nothing to do with what the man wrote. Men not getting responses isn't because of their "shitty personality" when the overwhelming majority of time women don't give the man a opportunity to show what personality he has. 

The interaction is almost wholly dependent upon the brief minute the woman looks at the guys picture and decides if she likes it or not.

 

[4R****]

6 minutes ago, Kruntz said:

The interaction is almost wholly dependent upon the brief minute the woman looks at the guys picture and decides if she likes it or not.

Absolute rubbish!

[ge****]

12 minutes ago, Kruntz said:

Why do you bother to engage? You do it to accomplish a specific goal, sex, relationships, kink etc. If you're not getting a result you want you can suggest social change but you also analyze where the failure point is and evaluate if it can be solved or not within your abilities. The first step to solving is analyzing where you fail.

My position is the overwhelming point of failure for most men is initial attraction on the part of the woman and it has almost nothing to do with what the man wrote. Men not getting responses isn't because of their "shitty personality" when the overwhelming majority of time women don't give the man a opportunity to show what personality he has. 

The interaction is almost wholly dependent upon the brief minute the woman looks at the guys picture and decides if she likes it or not.

 

Depends on your approach and *that* is where most men fail on sites like this - they see the only approach as being to blindly send messages to those they've never interacted with in the vain hope of getting some attention.
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Do you know how many such messages I've sent in over 6 years of using sites like this? I can count them on one and a half hands - and even those I got responses to all but one.
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Do you know how many women I've had meaningful conversations (and more) with using sites like this in that time? A heck of a lot more than I've sent blind messages.
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Then you have the men with shitty attitudes, incorrectly set expectations, and who just don't get how sites like this work.
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Either way the key is not based on a Caesar style thumbs up or down based on a picture but a whole lot more - sure physical attraction comes into it, just the same as it does for men, but there is still no hierarchical system of a top x% being the only ones to stand a chance.

[CopperKnob]

12 minutes ago, Kruntz said:

Why do you bother to engage? You do it to accomplish a specific goal, sex, relationships, kink etc. If you're not getting a result you want you can suggest social change but you also analyze where the failure point is and evaluate if it can be solved or not within your abilities. The first step to solving is analyzing where you fail.

My position is the overwhelming point of failure for most men is initial attraction on the part of the woman and it has almost nothing to do with what the man wrote. Men not getting responses isn't because of their "shitty personality" when the overwhelming majority of time women don't give the man a opportunity to show what personality he has. 

The interaction is almost wholly dependent upon the brief minute the woman looks at the guys picture and decides if she likes it or not.

 

This comment redirected back at you. Have you analyzed the failure point for yourself and come up with a solution that relates specifically to you rather than ranting on about how women are the cause of so many mens failure to build relationships with them?
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Because, like it's been said so many times, there are varying levels of relationships and different things people get from those different relationships. It's not all about kink and sexual gratification. I learn something from every person I have a relationship with regardless of it's type and regardless as to whether I recognise that learning at that time of at a later date and, sometimes that's enough.
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I mean, at it's most base level, you and I have a 'relationship', one where we both share our very different outlooks on life in a public forum. Regardless as to whether I find your photo attractive or not, here I am interacting with you, providing you with an opportunity to show your personality.

[Kruntz]

8 minutes ago, gemini_man said:

Depends on your approach and *that* is where most men fail on sites like this - they see the only approach as being to blindly send messages to those they've never interacted with in the vain hope of getting some attention.
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Do you know how many such messages I've sent in over 6 years of using sites like this? I can count them on one and a half hands - and even those I got responses to all but one.
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Do you know how many women I've had meaningful conversations (and more) with using sites like this in that time? A heck of a lot more than I've sent blind messages.
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Then you have the men with shitty attitudes, incorrectly set expectations, and who just don't get how sites like this work.
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Either way the key is not based on a Caesar style thumbs up or down based on a picture but a whole lot more - sure physical attraction comes into it, just the same as it does for men, but there is still no hierarchical system of a top x% being the only ones to stand a chance.

I agree in theory holistic interaction through forums slightly eases the strict appearance standards but if I limit my messages to people I interact with on the forum and who are in my general area, the desired sex I want, other reqs the total percentage of messages I would send out would be 0. Which means it's a completely nonviable approach to finding a partner.(And I thought people didn't want to use the forum for dating?).

I think women's evaluation is far closer to a yes/no system based upon a picture than people here admit but obviously we just have to disagree here until I can find some studies.

 

[ey****]

specifically talking about this site

including only scenarios where I sent the first message, do you know what my success rate is on here for the past 12 months?

It's 66%

Do you know how many messages I've sent out in that time?

3.

The people I messaged were people who (a) I was interested in (b) could gauge from their profile they might be interested in me

The problem guys in general do is they don't see one message every 4 months as doing enough.  So they send out a lot over a course of a few weeks - and compromise a lot on (a) or think that she will come round on (b) "if she just gets to know me"

now probably I don't message nearly enough people - there are assorted people I have had interest in, some I've actually chatted with, but not reached out properly - but yep 2 replies from 3 contacts, 66% success.  As opposed to 2 responses from 100 which is 2% and disheartening.  It's no wonder people feel inadequate for that poor return

It pays to be selective.  Because otherwise women going "too far", "did he even read my profile", "I'm really not what he is looking for", "I know he's also messaged a bunch of other people" so on, doesn't get responses

 

[YorkshireBiker]

41 minutes ago, Kruntz said:

If you're not getting a result you want you can suggest social change but you also analyze where the failure point is and evaluate if it can be solved or not within your abilities. The first step to solving is analyzing where you fail.

My position is the overwhelming point of failure for most men is initial attraction on the part of the woman and it has almost nothing to do with what the man wrote. Men not getting responses isn't because of their "shitty personality" when the overwhelming majority of time women don't give the man a opportunity to show what personality he has. 

Genuine question - what would you suggest we can do about this problem as you see it? 

[YorkshireBiker]

I’ve just had a nosey through my wall or whatever it’s actually called.

Nearly every picture a woman has posted has had a flood of the same generic comments, sexy, gorgeous, stunning, wow. All low effort single word compliments with no time taken to say what you like, then there’s the others - wanna play? What turns you on then?

Yes we’re online, but walking up to someone in the real world and asking what turns them on will likely get you a slap over a phone number. 

Noticing an attractive women outside and just walking up and saying sexy, then just standing there is not going to make her think, this seems like a good one.

If these are anything like the actual messages some people are sending then there’s part of the problem.  
 

edit, the what turns you on guy has actually posted this on several different pictures. 

Edited May 16, 2023 by YorkshireBiker
Minor grammar

[ge****]

56 minutes ago, Kruntz said:

I agree in theory holistic interaction through forums slightly eases the strict appearance standards but if I limit my messages to people I interact with on the forum and who are in my general area, the desired sex I want, other reqs the total percentage of messages I would send out would be 0. Which means it's a completely nonviable approach to finding a partner.(And I thought people didn't want to use the forum for dating?).

I think women's evaluation is far closer to a yes/no system based upon a picture than people here admit but obviously we just have to disagree here until I can find some studies.

 

And your own "evaluation system" is based along similar lines I would venture - at least the initial one, we all base initial attraction on how someone looks, both men and women - what I disagree with is your assertion that everyone is attracted to the same "type" or that ***, gym fit bodies, fast cars or whatever somehow places one person above others in the attraction stakes.
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As I said earlier, if that were the case there'd be an awful lot of single people about.
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I also disagree that it is purely looks that are used to decide whether to answer or not - it may play a part, but other factors such as message and profile content come into it too - but that is the same for *all* categories and genders of user.
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Ultimately though if your sole aim of using the site is to find a partner, it still comes down to expectations, attitude, approach and profile - get them wrong and you're going to be disappointed. You also need a level of acceptance that not everyone will find you attractive, or find your messages interesting enough to want to respond.
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Take your point about the forum being limited if you're purely looking for dates in your area/demographic - however given your forum interactions cross-post to your profile it's still another way for people to "see" you and how you interact.
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I don't think people do use the forum for dating per se, but it's a good way to strike up conversations and who knows what may lead from it?

[lo****]

3 hours ago, Kruntz said:

Eh physical attractiveness and *** applies to both. I'm going on a date with a 22 year old in a couple days but my last date was with a 31 year old, etc. Ideally I would date younger but I don't exclude women slightly older than me if they fit my reqs. 

There's definitely a solid chunk of ~30 women reaching the end of their fertility window also looking for a guy(at least I have seen a couple other dating sites).

I will say all the women I date come from a more educated background though which fits since it's the culture I grew up in.

The incel vibes, OMG!

This kind of guy it is useless to try and even explain that women have minds of their own, like genuine people, and hate this whole attitude he's firing off. Which, let me tell you, there are so many places(for women) who talk about how much we will run FAR away from guys spouting such things.

You want to know what women think is VERY unattractive? Look at your posts.

[ey****]

one of the things I've learnt over the years as well is... women tend not to just pay attention to what you write in messages.  But also how you conduct yourself in general.

And I know some guys really don't like this.  But, kinda.

Assume when you send somebody a message, like "Hey, so it seems you're looking for the same things as me and don't live far from me - would you like chat?" (which is neither a terrible message or a particularly great one.  I mean, chat about what?) that they will maybe read your profile. And possibly glance at how many messages you send versus receive (high send versus receive = you message lots of people - similar levels then maybe you chat a lot - so for example especially being here a while there's a few people I chat with as friends on and off) and also maybe check things like your activity. Status updates. Forum posts. Do you post comments on other pictures, are they appropriate?  

And I know this happens.  

Like, I was at a couple of munches recently.  The last one was totally unplanned and I arrived at the kinda after-munch and so basically ended up talking to everyone, there were a couple of people I'd known for years, someone I'd chatted to online but not met and a lot of people new to me and the new to me people all did have a kinda "oh, I've seen your posts, nice to meet you" 

the other munch I was at recently... oh man, there's a lady I massively crush on and we have both flirted and oh man, she's lovely - and - again yeah, she'd mentioned seeing some of my posts online even if she didn't always interact with them and it's all picture building.

 

There is a world of difference if someone already has somewhat of a positive impression of you, or can build a positive impression of you, and you message - then - if they have, fairly or unfairly, a negative impression.   Because I have seen people turn up to munches who've been dicks online and, boy.  They have an uphill struggle. 

[Se****]

10 hours ago, CopperKnob said:

It's the patriarchy I tell you!! 😂

How bizarre you should say this. I was just getting irate about this re someone telling me to wear a bra the other day 🤣

[Se****]

8 hours ago, gemini_man said:

I'd disagree that the acceptability of vulgar messages increases with any level of attractiveness - the *only* person that deems if *any* message is acceptable or not is the recipient.
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I'd also dispute that "nothing written matters if you're not deemed attractive enough" - I interact with all kinds of people on here, some who I am sure don't deem me attractive in that way, but who do, I believe, enjoy interacting with me.
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Besides you've kind of contradicted yourself with your first two sentences - on the one hand you suggest that attraction is down to the recipient, and on the other you suggest a general sliding scale of attractiveness that those at the top of get carte blanche when it comes to what they write - it can't be both.
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Welcome back by the way 🙂

I LOVE interacting with you 😘😘😘

That said I strongly believe that (physical) attractiveness is a) highly subjective and b) subject to factors other than physical appearance (and I know YOU know all this)

[Se****]

5 hours ago, CopperKnob said:

It was sarcasm, in response to Fatefuls comment that my father was to blame for giving me a particular chromosome, the undertone being, it's mens "fault" AKA the patriarchy.
Jokes/sarcasm aren't that funny/humourous when you have to explain them and maybe, it was a form of humour which Fateful and I have shared previously during our interactions which others outside of that wouldn't have necessarily picked up on if they hadn't have been privvy to them/seen previous comments on carious forum posts

Love ya