Misandry And Me

[CopperKnob]

I often get called a misandrist on Fet and so I'm publically owning my disappointment towards men. I could exchange the wird men for the words patriarchy, male toxicity or even misogyny. I could recant and say "most men" or "some men", but isn't that that the point? The constant tiptoeing and walking on eggshells so not to crush the feelings of their fragile being?
After years of dancing around men and their feelings I simply don't have the energy to do it anymore.

The simple truth is this, I remove men from my life who are offended by my mistrust and disappointment in their gender.

Some of you will need to read that sentence again before you comment.

And I am entitled to have a degree of mistrust. My distrust and disgust in, and towards men is based on experience and therefore extremely well founded. I've previously provided a brief overview of my experience of unwanted, non consensual attention from men so I shan't recount it here. But it's on record for those that want to view it and see the comments from others sharing their own experiences.

Misandry is the hatred towards men. I don't feel that that's the cap that truly fits my head but, I know that others will disagree. The things is, I don't hate all men. Hate is a strong word reserved for paedophiles. And yet, here I am, titling a post 'misandry and me'

I used to think that I struggled with how I felt about men. The truth is, I don't struggle anymore. It feels amazing to acknowledge my feelings after years of ignoring them. They no longer fester like a wound that begs to have the scab picked off. No longer tiptoeing around the male gender is...freeing.

I post a lot of sarcasm here. Sometimes about men, sometimes about women and many, many other topics.
You know which of my posts creates the most anger and which demographic show up with their anger without fail, despite using the phrases "some men" and "not all men?"
It's rhetorical.

You know, I'm OK with this. I do not care. I do not loose sleep, get my knickers in a twist or cry over it. I used to care, mens anger used to frustrate me but like I say, not anymore.

Sometimes I post things and I get messages from women that say "Thank you for saying that" or "Thank you for saying what I couldn't say" or, "i completely relate to what you said."

Of course, I also get messages from men that say "NoT AlL MeN" or some other drivel as well as the very well practiced "fat bitch" comment or derivatives or it. Unless I'm bored, I don't respond to them because I'm really not interested in what those men have to say. Those are the men that I evict from the spaces in which I live.

I have an abundance of good men in my life. These men are the ones that look me in the eye, not my boobs. They message me to strike up a conversation not objectify me. They treat me with the respect I show them.
I keep those men close because they do not take me for granted. They do not brush off or deny my feelings towards their gender, but most importantly, they do not take offence to something that they have not done.
Imagine being offended over something you haven't done.
Imagine being upset and striving to correct other men when they act a certain way.
There's a novelty for some in those last two sentences.

The mere existence of these men stands as evidence that not all men are douchecanoes. However, I do not agree with the idea that "all men" are like this and I need to give all men the opportunity to show their personality. Men must earn access now. Cis males no longer get a free pass because their feelings and responses are harmful, angry and abusive. Men no longer get to stand on their soapbox and claim "But, I'm not like that!" They may not be, but they let others be that way and say nothing. In order to fit in, they stay silent.

Even as I write this, I feel the urge to add caveats to what I write. What if I anger men? What if I alienate a potential lover or friend?
Wouldn't that be the absolute worst; to offend men I haven't even met?

You don't have to like me or what I post. You don't have to be friends with me. As I said earlier, I'm okay with that. I will not mute myself for others. I will not swallow my my thoughts or feelings. I will not stop calling anyone out on the stupid shit that they say regardless of their gender. And yes, I have called out those profiles presenting as female.

For the longest time I thought I was a feminist. I thought that I wanted equality between men and women (all genders but that's not the point here)

I don't.

I don't because one gender cannot be equal to another until the lived experiences are the same.

Women are angry and rightly so. We are no longer silent. You will not shame us, scare us or belittle us. At least not the women I spend time with.

Even on Fet, if you read enough comments and posts, you will see women are no longer accepting your male fantasies in their DM's or on their photos. Many of us are willing to stand shoulder to shoulder and hold you accountable.

I know there will be an argument that men are socialized to be this way. That it's not their fault, because there are social constructs at play. That men behave this way and women behave that way. That men "get things done' while women "have emotions". Men feel entitled to get the promotions, and women's bodies because, from a very young age, you are taught that the world is yours. That you can be anything you want to be. Even if that's untrue but that's a tale for another day.

I even wrote a post about the negative impact of social contructs on men last year in an effort to empathise with them. Imagine the backlash I received over that. I think I actually asked for comments to be closed because men were not listening. Round and round the conversation went. Insults were made, by men. Men do not want to change, why would they when society is, as it is.

Many of you have probably stopped reading by this point and that's OK.

For those that haven't, either out of sheer stubborness, tenacity, anger or even interest, you might ask yourself what the solution is, well read on.

As a man, you can ask what women need, how you can help, what you can say. You can fight to pay women a fair wage, you can step up when you see another man insult, cajole or even foster their own sexual advances on an unwilling woman. You can apologise for being shitty when you are and you can call out others for the same.
Most of all though...

You can listen. Don't say "BuT I'M DifFeRenT" or "I'M NoT LiKe ThAT" in response.
We know.
We know the ones who are and aren't. We don't need you to tell us, in the words of Audrey "show me!" The one's that aren't grace our friends list, they are the ones we feel comfortable being in their embrace. They are the ones we feel comfortable being in their company without worrying about their hands.

As the times change, behaviour changes and as more women hold more men accountable and, more importantly, as more men hold themselves accountable for their words and their actions. Perhaps equality can be gained but it's a long way off. Perhaps as we move towards "us" rather than "them and us", our attitudes and beliefs will be reconsidered.

So, am I a misandrist, or am I just choosy about who I give my time to? You know, I started the post by saying I didn't care and that's exactly how I'll end it.

[Gr****]

Can I get this dm’ed to me?
I’d love to repost this if that’s ok.

[Blacksmith]

Love it , what a great topic ! Thank you so much for putting this out there. Really nicely balanced, hope we can all take something from your well thought out discussion.

[ge****]

Amen ***!! Well written, thought out and balanced as ever.
.
I'll be honest, until six or seven years ago when I started using sites like this, I actually thought we'd come a long way to reducing, if not closing, the equality gap - but have come to realise in those years just how far we have to go. Some of the things I see from my fellow genderites make me cringe at best and angry at the other end of the scale.
.
There is no excuse for some of the behaviours displayed time and again by men, behaviours that are vile, abusive and misogynistic and worse.
.
Yes, partly it's a social construct, but to blame that is to excuse those behaviours. Part of it is frustration at not getting what they want, and again that's not to excuse it - and there are many more "part of's" that I am sure could be levelled - the vast majority that are inexcusable.
.
Even if as men we can't understand some of the problems women face, at least we can accept them and empathise with them.
.
I was bought up to treat people as equals, to be respectful and considerate and more all regardless of their gender/race/whatever yet I *know* there are times I could do better and when I see that I could have done, I try to do so rather than ignoring it, or lashing out.
.
I just wish more would see it that way.

[ma****]

Once when I when I was a ***ager I got on a train an woman considerably older than me came and sat next to me and started talking to me. She never paused or asked me anything for over an hour and at the end stood up to leave and said thank you for listening no one ever does these days…

[Se****]

Douchecanoes 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Seriously though (and I know you don’t care what others think 😉) this is brilliantly well written and thought provoking as always.

It’s going to take time and a lot of it. But there is a generation of women now raising sons to realise that they don’t automatically have entitlement simply because of their gender and raising daughters who know their worth. I’m not saying our parents didn’t but there is definitely a shift.

It’s taken me a long time to realise that I don’t have to “bow down” to certain men, that I can explain my thought processes (when my words don’t evade me) and my feelings and actually say - you know what? I’m better than this and I won’t tolerate being treated this way. It’s taken me a long time to understand that I’m allowed to say no and actually I don’t need to quantify or justify that.

For the record, I don’t think that you’re a misandrist (and even if you are/were it’s not really any of my business) but I do think that you (and I often, and many others) dragged into the quagmire of emotions and resentment that SOME not ALL men (actually people in general tbf) don’t know how to express.

Sorry I rambled a bit there.

I’ll end by - great writing as always x

[PJ****]

Damn! I'm not even going to be a dick and bring up ice-cream or any other food related skulduggery.. just 👏👏👏

[Ye****]

Really amazing post. I feel sadness about this. Actually, lots of emotions.

[do****]

👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 Outstanding!. Say it with your chest ma'am. No offenses taken, no apologies needed. Thank you for this shit right here !!!! Say it a little louder for the ones in the back wanking off please, they definitely need to hear this. Thank you again. Let this be the last time you go in my head and articulate my thoughts better than me. But you do it oh so well I might let you do it again 💜💜💜

[Deleted Member]

yet again i (33 yr old woman) have accidentally signed up to a site promoting 3rd wave feminisn ffs. Frankly I don't really care what you have been through or your experiences, YOUR choice in previous contact with men are not the responsibility or problem to put up with for new men that take interest in your life. Have some damn self accountability ?????? These are the facts, you have encountered maybe a couple thousand males in your life out of 4 billion, I'll say again 4,000,000,000. You've not even scratched the surface and your entitlement is astounding, it is not us that should be appreciated by men rather the opposite. Here is all you need to know, if with a snap of the fingers all women disappeared entirely the world would continue to turn for years and years to come capped at 72 years (ish as this is the average life expectancy of males) then the human race would no longer continue, if the finger snap erased all men the world wouldn't continue past 6 months(despite having longer life expectancies by 6 years), this is because the rest of the 4 billion men you've never met are to busy holding up and paying for the entire society and in turn world making them far to busy to online catcall or even message ladies like you!
You want to shit talk men but then expect them to step in for you when confronting another male, even though males suffer *** at a much higher rate from other males and are also killed more often by those same males, your whole post is riddled with not only hate but hypocrisy. Messages of support from people pandering to you in your dms is not proof of anything at all what so ever, but you know what there is lots of proof on.............. the more people voice the very same words and opinions that you so openly and proudly post, the more the male self delete rate stays the same(something i am familiar with in my life), so screw your catcalling, don't like it take self defence lessons and if your talking about online grow the f up, men are too busy fighting off other men and women that attack them to defend you. screw your "fair wage" you should simply work the same hours and jobs as men (read something for once instead of talking, employment wages were made identical by law 50+ years ago). Screw your support women tips, do what most men do and do it your damn self.
Dear men, I'm sorry you have to see the society you work hard to contribute to so saturated in this disgusting ideology. I hope in her words where she says she feels freedom from not eggshelling round your egos you see what she means is it feels good not holding herself accountable. I know being the logical beings you all are that you can do the maths and see not all girls agree with her one bit and I will always try to share parts of your daily struggles to get you the love and support you've never been shown but have always deserved. Your doing your best and that's all I will ask of you unlike some others. Stay strong, we need every single one of you and above all thank you for what you do.

[do****]

23 minutes ago, leanneandmartin said:

yet again i (33 yr old woman) have accidentally signed up to a site promoting 3rd wave feminisn ffs. Frankly I don't really care what you have been through or your experiences, YOUR choice in previous contact with men are not the responsibility or problem to put up with for new men that take interest in your life. Have some damn self accountability ?????? These are the facts, you have encountered maybe a couple thousand males in your life out of 4 billion, I'll say again 4,000,000,000. You've not even scratched the surface and your entitlement is astounding, it is not us that should be appreciated by men rather the opposite. Here is all you need to know, if with a snap of the fingers all women disappeared entirely the world would continue to turn for years and years to come capped at 72 years (ish as this is the average life expectancy of males) then the human race would no longer continue, if the finger snap erased all men the world wouldn't continue past 6 months(despite having longer life expectancies by 6 years), this is because the rest of the 4 billion men you've never met are to busy holding up and paying for the entire society and in turn world making them far to busy to online catcall or even message ladies like you!
You want to shit talk men but then expect them to step in for you when confronting another male, even though males suffer *** at a much higher rate from other males and are also killed more often by those same males, your whole post is riddled with not only hate but hypocrisy. Messages of support from people pandering to you in your dms is not proof of anything at all what so ever, but you know what there is lots of proof on.............. the more people voice the very same words and opinions that you so openly and proudly post, the more the male self delete rate stays the same(something i am familiar with in my life), so screw your catcalling, don't like it take self defence lessons and if your talking about online grow the f up, men are too busy fighting off other men and women that attack them to defend you. screw your "fair wage" you should simply work the same hours and jobs as men (read something for once instead of talking, employment wages were made identical by law 50+ years ago). Screw your support women tips, do what most men do and do it your damn self.
Dear men, I'm sorry you have to see the society you work hard to contribute to so saturated in this disgusting ideology. I hope in her words where she says she feels freedom from not eggshelling round your egos you see what she means is it feels good not holding herself accountable. I know being the logical beings you all are that you can do the maths and see not all girls agree with her one bit and I will always try to share parts of your daily struggles to get you the love and support you've never been shown but have always deserved. Your doing your best and that's all I will ask of you unlike some others. Stay strong, we need every single one of you and above all thank you for what you do.

I hear your point and stand with you as well. But in my opinion, I think you missed her point. I think you have the correct argument but the wrong example to use it with. Just my opinion and I can be wrong. Just my interpretation of what I'm reading.

[Deleted Member]

37 minutes ago, doubletrouble129 said:

I hear your point and stand with you as well. But in my opinion, I think you missed her point. I think you have the correct argument but the wrong example to use it with. Just my opinion and I can be wrong. Just my interpretation of what I'm reading.

Hi there, I'm open to that being the case...............

[do****]

1 minute ago, leanneandmartin said:

Hi there, I'm open to that being the case...............

Respected and appreciated 💜

[li****]

To be honest, I am fed up of seeing the constant man bashing on here in the forum. 

[Deleted Member]

12 minutes ago, lil-monster said:

To be honest, I am fed up of seeing the constant man bashing on here in the forum. 

That is how I interpreted OP. its saddening.

[do****]

14 minutes ago, lil-monster said:

To be honest, I am fed up of seeing the constant man bashing on here in the forum. 

You every heard if it doesn't apply let it fly, if it do it must be you? Just asking. I do not see it as male bashing because I do not think in generalizations and I know myself. I'm a heterosexual male that loves and respect everyone that carries themselves like a human being. She's not talking about me. But she is talking about the men that give me and possibly you a bad wrap and make my job of pleasing women harder. That I can stand by

[do****]

1 minute ago, doubletrouble129 said:

You every heard if it doesn't apply let it fly, if it do it must be you? Just asking. I do not see it as male bashing because I do not think in generalizations and I know myself. I'm a heterosexual male that loves and respect everyone that carries themselves like a human being. She's not talking about me. But she is talking about the men that give me and possibly you a bad wrap and make my job of pleasing women harder. That I can stand by

Apologize I did not check your profile before I responded. You are female. Disregard the possibly you part

[do****]

10 minutes ago, leanneandmartin said:

That is how I interpreted OP. its saddening.

Everyone is entitled to their own interpretation. I'm not saying your thoughts are wrong or invalid. Just adding another perspective that everyone might also see. This is not a wishy-washy topic. This is real and deep. A lot of feelings, emotions, values, etc are behind this on both sides. I just this disconnect did not exist

[do****]

Just now, doubletrouble129 said:

Everyone is entitled to their own interpretation. I'm not saying your thoughts are wrong or invalid. Just adding another perspective that everyone might also see. This is not a wishy-washy topic. This is real and deep. A lot of feelings, emotions, values, etc are behind this on both sides. I just this disconnect did not exist

*wish

[Deleted Member]

13 minutes ago, doubletrouble129 said:

You every heard if it doesn't apply let it fly, if it do it must be you? Just asking. I do not see it as male bashing because I do not think in generalizations and I know myself. I'm a heterosexual male that loves and respect everyone that carries themselves like a human being. She's not talking about me. But she is talking about the men that give me and possibly you a bad wrap and make my job of pleasing women harder. That I can stand by

She generalised in the post stating all cis men need to earn something with her because of her feelings. That's a guilty until proven innocent mentality and not how the real world works, that's not being loving, that's not respectful, that's not kind, it's not any of the things she believes she is entitled to from men. The world owes no one anything, least of all men owing ladies who believe this stuff a thing at all. Doubletrouble my new friend you dont need to adjust or change a thing your doing if your doing your best and neither does anyone else. intention is vital now more than ever, by men doing their best we all thrive. Lastly you shouldn't have such a change in energy to a posters opinion because of their genitals ,a male speaking the same words should be treated the same as i have, with respect and appreciation like you showed above to me 😊

[do****]

6 minutes ago, leanneandmartin said:

She generalised in the post stating all cis men need to earn something with her because of her feelings. That's a guilty until proven innocent mentality and not how the real world works, that's not being loving, that's not respectful, that's not kind, it's not any of the things she believes she is entitled to from men. The world owes no one anything, least of all men owing ladies who believe this stuff a thing at all. Doubletrouble my new friend you dont need to adjust or change a thing your doing if your doing your best and neither does anyone else. intention is vital now more than ever, by men doing their best we all thrive. Lastly you shouldn't have such a change in energy to a posters opinion because of their genitals ,a male speaking the same words should be treated the same as i have, with respect and appreciation like you showed above to me 😊

I missed the generalizations. That's my fault. But I read some other stuff she's written and she did not come off to me as a male basher, just another woman that's tired of the BS. Which that I can empathize with for all women. I'm not perfect by a loooooooong shot. I've done put women through some shit and left my carnage. But I've learned, I've evolved, it's possible with empathy. I just see both sides of the fence. I get the penalties for other men like the rest, but I also see the causes.

[QXX666]

Is it an obsession? A therapy ?

If you don’t care why writing it 🤷‍♂️

[li****]

I'm constantly seeing man bashing in the forum and it's not just one person to be honest, that my opinion as you've had yours.

40 minutes ago, doubletrouble129 said:

You every heard if it doesn't apply let it fly, if it do it must be you? Just asking. I do not see it as male bashing because I do not think in generalizations and I know myself. I'm a heterosexual male that loves and respect everyone that carries themselves like a human being. She's not talking about me. But she is talking about the men that give me and possibly you a bad wrap and make my job of pleasing women harder. That I can stand by

So that bit at the beginning 😂 I'm not gonna let something fly if I think it's wrong 🤦🏻‍♀️

Edited May 17, 2023 by lil-monster

[Je****]

11 minutes ago, lil-monster said:

I'm constantly seeing man bashing in the forum and it's not just one person to be honest, that my opinion as you've had yours.

 

I agree with you here. 

 

These forums, even I have been guilty about venting about "certain" men, but that's the odd one or two. For the most part I am very supportive and quite defensive of men to be honest. 

I am Bisexual, at it's basic, and I love both men and women but I treat any and all with the same respect. If a woman comes into my DMs and speaks to me in a sleazy way, as a man perhaps would, she would get the exact same response as a male would. 

I however used to enjoy these posts from CK, with all due respect but perhaps the last 5 (?) I have read have done nothing but make me shake my head. 

There is venting about "some" men who have maybe rattled you in an inbox or RL encounter, but I find most of your posts are sarcastic and off the nose/tongue in cheek (can't get the term) berating men, which to me, reads as men as a whole. 

I found myself sort of sad to read them, and I do read them to understand your views and opinions, but many a time I have thought, what the actual fuck, it's very unfair to bring men as a whole down (which is how it reads on many occasions). 

Sure they *** you off, they throw dicks in DMs, they speak to you like shit. In the case of online, sure block and report them. The need for a whole dedicated topic to passive aggressively bring them down, is what gets to me. I often read your posts and think, imagine a man wrote this about a woman... the problem?... Those men would be Annihilated by both men and women on here. Yet you seem to get an applause. It baffles me. 

In society, at face value I am a woman. I've been used, ***d, sexually attacked, spoke to and treated like shit but... I love men. I won't ever even insinuate that I deserve men to prove themselves to me. As someone said the world doesn't run on a "guilty until proven innocent" mentality. For me at least, I treat everyone with innocence and whatnot, until they give me a reason to block them from life, or online. But only them, the individual. I'd be the same if a woman did this to me. 

Society isn't all that fair on women, I will strongly agree with you there. But some of those men do have it very hard. There are more good ones than bad in this world. And I personally would always back a man if he needed it, be it from ***, DV, ***, being attacked or name called by.. anyone really. 

Most of the people in my life who are close to me are males, and I often think of them when 
I read these posts and I guess that's what angers me. 

Those who "deserve" the backlash yeah sure, I will support that, they've given a reason to have said backlash, but it can be done more discreetly, so maybe it doesn't read to the community that you are a misandrist or whatever. I personally don't think you are, but I think you are very compulsed to reacting to everything any man does to annoy you. you are giving those men power, dedicating posts to them and their shitty ways and quite frankly that's not fair on you. Let them go. If they are shit to people, women especially, then women will know and they won't get far. 

For me, I will treat men and women alike, and those men who are good to me, I will alwyas show love and compassion and offer them a shoulder. Perhaps it may actually help men in today's society to know it's ok to just be yourself, show your soft side and not just behave how you think a man should in cases of being a brute. But I know many aren't that way inclined and those I have all the time for. The idiots in my inbox, gone. Blocked and reported. But compared to the decent, wonderful men, they are not even a percentage, and the majority is who I choose to spend my efforts on.

 

My comment may be missing some points of your post, that's on me sure, but as a whole of what I have read this last while, this is my response, and I am saying it with genuine respect, that if you don't agree with mine here as I don't agree with yours, that's ok. We are able to disagree and still maintain that respect for a fellow Kink community member.

[do****]

27 minutes ago, lil-monster said:

I'm constantly seeing man bashing in the forum and it's not just one person to be honest, that my opinion as you've had yours.

So that bit at the beginning 😂 I'm not gonna let something fly if I think it's wrong 🤦🏻‍♀️

Understood and respected